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Who wins the Premiership?

Who wins the Premiership?

  • Penrith

    Votes: 66 40.2%
  • Storm

    Votes: 44 26.8%
  • Eels

    Votes: 9 5.5%
  • Roosters

    Votes: 14 8.5%
  • Raiders

    Votes: 8 4.9%
  • Knights

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Rabbits

    Votes: 13 7.9%
  • Manly

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Sharks

    Votes: 6 3.7%

  • Total voters
    164

Reflector

Juniors
Messages
2,313
Gus is a strange animal, but you cant dispute he is a good operator. He does have a limited shelf life though. His resume as a coach speaks for itself. He did inherit quality teams at the Dogs & Panthers (90,91) but he did a good job of reinventing himself at the Roosters. They were a basket case when he arrived there. Uncle Nick is a brilliant business man, but that doesnt necessarily translate to being good at running an NRL club. He may not have won a comp at the Chooks, but what he did was help turn them into being a very well run club. Politis is obviously an intelligent man & learnt well from what Gus showed him. They have f**k all juniors, but since Gus went there they have consistently targeted the right kids & developed them into NRL players. The sustained success has also allowed them to get quality players to add the icing at the right price because it's now an attractive destination. A far cry from the transit lounge it was before Gus.

Origin he instilled pride in the jersey, he knew long before anyone else in NSW worked it out that QLD spirit was a tangible thing. The results speak for themselves.

His review of the Cowboys is an interesting one. Prior to Gus getting involved they were on the edge of success, but couldnt take the next step. I really dont know exactly what he did there, but JT credits him as to a big part of the reason he went to the next level as a player. After Gus did whatever the hell he did, the Cows had a nice run of success & topped it off with a premiership.

Penrith has always been a sleeping giant with great resources. But for a long time it seemed the board were more interested in building a leagues club empire than a decent footy team. It was almost as if the football team was a necessary evil to allow the licenced clubs to operate. In the late eighties it looked like things might turn around, Sheens started the ball rolling & then Ron Willey added the hard edge we had never had. Gus came in at the end and finally delivered us a premiership. It looked like we had finally awoken until the tragedy of 1992 ripped the heart out of the club & we returned to the abyss. 2003 imo was more good luck than good management, that is in no way meant to diminish what Lang & his team achieved, but it didnt last long. Telling Lang he was gone mid 2006 in favour of Matthew Elliott was typical Penrith.

When Gus arrived we were a hot mess. On field we had nothing, the players ran the team & the leagues club empire was crumbling. This is where the whole 5 year plan bullshit came about. After he had the time to see what he was up against he said it would take half a decade to fix the mess. This is the time he really shone as an administrator. He didn't take over the coaching, he didn't take over the leagues club. He identified the right people and put them in the right jobs. He also had the clout to get the right financial backers on board to help fix the mess. He got rid of the players that were too big for their boots & bought in experienced players with good attitudes. He said up front that this wouldn't be a quick fix, but the rewards will follow. I remember being horrified, Lewis, Jennings etc out the door for Newton, Ciraldo etc. Over time things got better, the kids started to come through, we signed higher quality players in positions we needed them in. Once the academy was built & the pathways put in place was maybe the time to phase him out. The final few years he did a few weird things. I think he is the type of person who has to be busy, once the important stuff was done I think he couldnt resist the temptation to meddle.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with the Warriors. I think the way they have set it up is right, if he stays focused on his task & is provided the resources he needs then look out, It could be lets gone warriors time.


You gave a pretty good summation of Gus's time as a coach/ administrator but there's a few things to remember-

a) Gus inherited the role of NSW coach at the same time the Qld stars who'd dominated the 80's (Lewis, Meninga etc) had all retired or were on the way out. Conversely NSW had their golden generation peaking which led to such a great run from 1992- 2005. Gus definitely understood the mindset required for Origin beyond "Go out for some drinks, have a training session together and it'll come together for us on game night" but you can't help looking at the available players he got to work with.

b) Getting Freddy to the Roosters underpinned everything else. Freddy was in his early 20's and already one of the stars of the game= big drawcard that coincided with the SL war.

c) I don't see 2003 as good luck. What Lang achieved at Penrith was really Cronulla 2.0= an attractive attacking team who didn't mind conceding 20 because they could score 40. The Sharks (along with Norths, Parramatta and the Dragons) were one of the best sides not to win a comp between 1997 and 2002 and if the events unfolded differently, seeing any of those teams listed as Premiers in that 5 year period wouldn't look any more out of place than Newcastle in '97 or the Storm in '99. When Brisbane went looking for a successor to Wayne back in 2008 I thought they made a mistake not enquiring about Johnny Lang. He was a Premiership winning coach, a Qlder (Easts Tigers) and he encouraged good attacking football which that Broncos roster definitely had the squad to execute at the time. Yet they thought Henjack was the better choice for reasons I don't know...
 

The_Frog

First Grade
Messages
6,390
So if the "not the 5 year plan" was working so well, why was Gus fired from the Panthers, or should I say "went separate ways".

Tbh, I have no issue with Panthers winning it this year, they've done well. I just hate how Gus gets to claim credit for shit he does and no dirt for what he f**ks up.
He wasn't fired as such, but all his functions were taken over by other people to the point where he went to the board and asked to be made redundant. The sacking of Griffin appears to have been the catalyst for the usurping of his power. From that time on, his days were numbered.

What Lang achieved at Penrith was really Cronulla 2.0= an attractive attacking team who didn't mind conceding 20 because they could score 40.

Lang was the first to acknowledge the role of Royce Simmons in putting most of that side together.
 
Messages
14,573
The match last night confirmed what I’ve been thinking about Parramatta the past month.

They are no threat to the Premiership this year.

To only score 2 tries all game in great conditions against a Storm team missing their three best defenders in Smith, Finnucane and Bromwich and a backline with so many new defensive combinations should have the alarm bells ringing in Brad Arthur’s ear.

Only 3 teams can win the comp.

Penrith, Melbourne & the Roosters.
 

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
The match last night confirmed what I’ve been thinking about Parramatta the past month.

They are no threat to the Premiership this year.

To only score 2 tries all game in great conditions against a Storm team missing their three best defenders in Smith, Finnucane and Bromwich and a backline with so many new defensive combinations should have the alarm bells ringing in Brad Arthur’s ear.

Only 3 teams can win the comp.

Penrith, Melbourne & the Roosters.

Based on averages Parra only need to score 12 points to win any game.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,647
Roosters 08, Titans 09, Dragons 09, Penrith 10, Storm 13, Manly 14 and Parra 17. All teams that finished top 4 and were bundled out in straight sets. it is hard to see Parra 20 not being added to that list at this point.

Penrith deserved favourites but still have it all to prove in the finals.

Storm and roosters still massive chances if they can be mostly healthy by finals time.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,538
You gave a pretty good summation of Gus's time as a coach/ administrator but there's a few things to remember-

a) Gus inherited the role of NSW coach at the same time the Qld stars who'd dominated the 80's (Lewis, Meninga etc) had all retired or were on the way out. Conversely NSW had their golden generation peaking which led to such a great run from 1992- 2005. Gus definitely understood the mindset required for Origin beyond "Go out for some drinks, have a training session together and it'll come together for us on game night" but you can't help looking at the available players he got to work with.

b) Getting Freddy to the Roosters underpinned everything else. Freddy was in his early 20's and already one of the stars of the game= big drawcard that coincided with the SL war.

c) I don't see 2003 as good luck. What Lang achieved at Penrith was really Cronulla 2.0= an attractive attacking team who didn't mind conceding 20 because they could score 40. The Sharks (along with Norths, Parramatta and the Dragons) were one of the best sides not to win a comp between 1997 and 2002 and if the events unfolded differently, seeing any of those teams listed as Premiers in that 5 year period wouldn't look any more out of place than Newcastle in '97 or the Storm in '99. When Brisbane went looking for a successor to Wayne back in 2008 I thought they made a mistake not enquiring about Johnny Lang. He was a Premiership winning coach, a Qlder (Easts Tigers) and he encouraged good attacking football which that Broncos roster definitely had the squad to execute at the time. Yet they thought Henjack was the better choice for reasons I don't know...
I agree with most of that, but it was the mindset he instilled in the Blue Jersey that we were missing before. We had some gun teams pre Gus, but they just couldnt get it done. QLD were the ones taking it seriously. Freddy is in a similar situation, the top QLD players out or the way out, but he has the right way of thinking to sustain the success. Pretty safe to assume where he inherited that from.

With the Roosters you are right that getting Fittler was the key. As a Panthers supporter I was gutted when we lost him. But Freddy has been retired a while now & the Roosters record since is pretty enviable. They have had to rebuild a few times, but they do it quickly & efficiently. We all joke about the sombrero & brown paper bags, but the Roosters dont poach as many superstars as the ones they create. Sure, the ones they develop are identified as young guns from other teams, but they have a great record of turning them into NRL quality. I believe it was Gus that got Uncle Nick moving in that direction & it's been a great formula for them.

I more meant the sustained success when talking about 2003 Panthers. We came off a spoon in 01, not much better in 02 & it all came together in 03. I loved Lang & the style we played then. It was an exciting year to be a Panther. We backed it up in 04 getting to the Prelim, but then fell off a cliff. What we have now is yet to deliver a premiership, but it seems we have the setup to finally be a fixture in finals footy for a long time to come. In years gone by it would get to around this time of year & I would be looking at other teams imagining a wish list of who i hoped Penrith would sign for the following year. (Most years i was left disappointed. ha ha) this year I dont care if we dont sign anyone. The production line seems in full swing & the players that debut look ready. We have had some freak players come through over the years, but for some reason the ones coming now just seem more consistent players. That I hope will be Gus's legacy & I hope he can do something similar for the Warriors.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,911
The match last night confirmed what I’ve been thinking about Parramatta the past month.

They are no threat to the Premiership this year.

To only score 2 tries all game in great conditions against a Storm team missing their three best defenders in Smith, Finnucane and Bromwich and a backline with so many new defensive combinations should have the alarm bells ringing in Brad Arthur’s ear.

Only 3 teams can win the comp.

Penrith, Melbourne & the Roosters.

but but defence lol. Storm would have put 30 on them at full strength.
 

The_Frog

First Grade
Messages
6,390
Penrith deserved favourites but still have it all to prove in the finals.
Except we're not favourites, the Storm are at $3.75, Roosters next $4.25, then us at $4.50. No doubt because we haven't experienced the rarefied air of week 3 and beyond for a long time.

We are very short for the Giltinan though.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,647
Except we're not favourites, the Storm are at $3.75, Roosters next $4.25, then us at $4.50. No doubt because we haven't experienced the rarefied air of week 3 and beyond for a long time.

We are very short for the Giltinan though.

I meant in my mind they are favourites lol
 

Hutty1986

Immortal
Messages
34,034
On their day, pennies can roll anyone. Brilliant in attack, a halfback that builds pressure, gun young centres. But until we see them in a high pressure final, it remains to be seen whether they can get in the grind, go set for set against a Storm or a Roosters and get the job done. I do remember similar concerns 17 years ago, though. As it stands now, i think Melbourne are heavy favourites, because that side is just built on what wins big games. They defend so well, their attack has variety and they've dont it before. Chooks can beat them both, but they are pretty busted and will need Keary/Tedesco to go ballistic.

The tried and tested path to success in this comp is getting that top 2/3 finish, winning week 1 and getting a week off. Plenty of talk about losing momentum when you miss a week, but imo the best chance of winning a comp is through that route.

Parra the other side in that top 4, but they are a fair way off the pace atm and the next few weeks are crucial. You don't want to be trying to find form in a final, especially under this finals system (as opposed to 1v8, 2v7, etc).
 
Messages
8,480
Storm
then Roosters 2nd favourites.

It sounds like boring predictable selections but both these teams will get into the finals, with players back, and are such professional clubs that they’ll be so hard to toss.

Penrith are a shot of course, but I rate them behind these two.

I honestly can’t see anyone else as a chance but for every finals team they are only 3 wins maximum away from a GF appearance.
 

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