Redcliffe put their hand up

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I am all for a second Brisbane team I am just not certain Redcliffe Dolphins are the right choice. I am also all for a second NZ team however I think Perth has more priority... As for Sydney it is overcrowded, people like Andrew Johns and Phil Gould have even said as much. Gould even stated that he had grave concerns that some Sydney clubs could fold because of Covid, he tends to be dramatic though. But why would he be so concerned about Sydney clubs? maybe because they have an unsustainable business model and cannibalize each other for sponsors, players and fans?

When the Raiders are asking NRL HQ for handouts and getting sub 10k crowds again then sure, maybe they should look at relocating.

Fair enough.

Sydney would probably be fine with 2 fewer teams, provided they stayed alive in a merger or relocation. I wouldn’t go any lower than 7 teams though, as it is a big market with rich history.

I don't see Perth supporting a team on its own or convincing the 16 clubs, ARLC, QRL or NSWRL to admit them into the competition. They might be swayed into adding Bris 2 and NZ2, but even those 2 options are a long shot at this stage. PVL said no clubs for WA or SA. Why people keep convincing themselves WA and SA are a chance of getting their own teams, despite PVL saying they won't, is something I have trouble understanding.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Fair enough.

Sydney would probably be fine with 2 fewer teams, provided they stayed alive in a merger or relocation. I wouldn’t go any lower than 7 teams though, as it is a big market with rich history.

I don't see Perth supporting a team on its own or convincing the 16 clubs, ARLC, QRL or NSWRL to admit them into the competition. They might be swayed into adding Bris 2 and NZ2, but even those 2 options are a long shot at this stage. PVL said no clubs for WA or SA. Why people keep convincing themselves WA and SA are a chance of getting their own teams, despite PVL saying they won't, is something I have trouble understanding.

Andrew Abdo mentioned Stabilising, Renovating, then Growing. At no stage has he said places like Perth, Adelaide or others are off the table. Even despite PVL's previous comments. And PVL was recently very complimentary of the SA Government (on 100% footy) with regards to the investment on RL with the Roosters/Storm games over the years and SOO. So it's not as though he sees Non-RL states as a waste of time (SA in this case) as I see it.

Growth (expansion) won't happen until the first 2 stages are assured. At the same time like myself, and maybe others have mentioned here before - it'll take a strong business case to do warrant an expansion team. Personally - I think Adelaide has a stronger case than many would believe but it would need respected voices driving it to make it happen. Brisbane 2 for me is the absolute logical next step. Then either Perth or Adelaide after that.

Abdo's comments below.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...n/news-story/086dd7578c0821bc190a58218505f027

EXPANSION ON THE TABLE?

One of the hottest issues in the game’s growth will certainly be expanding the number of teams in the NRL.

Abdo told NRL 360: “We want to grow. We need to start planning for it now.

“Our chair has been very vocal about this. Expansion will only happen if there’s a solid business case for it.

“The numbers have to stack up. It has to add value to the economy. We need to do that analysis in a post-covid environment.

“We need to figure out if it’s going to add value to the game. And if it does then we need to have a plan to get there.

“It’s not off the table but equally there are a few things we have to do first before we move to that phase.”

And he’s not just eyeing off growth in new areas of the country – he also wants to ensure the game fights off the increasing influence of rival codes in the NRL’s heartland.

He declared the need to: “better connect (with fans and communities), particularly with regional NSW and QLD” – areas where he said the game’s body was “structurally challenged”.

“We’ve got a lot to do – and we can’t overpromise and underdeliver. We’ve got to work methodically through everything.

“It’s not just about spending more money in areas. It’s about being cleverer or being more innovative … that’s how we’re going to win.”

 

[LeagueXIII]

I'm wary of any team splitting home games between 3 or more venues. It just veers off into a Tigers scenario. Especially if the small suburban/boutique/heritage grounds have a third (or more) of the home games.

This Brisbane 2 expansion has the potential to set a template for Brisbane 3 to follow.. and maybe even a way forward for Sydney clubs in the 21st century. Why make the same mistakes as others have?

Looking at a map of Brisbane I can see 3 teams there in the future...Broncos...redcliffe/sunshine coast and a team on the other side of the river firehawks call them east Brisbane tigers dissolve wests tigers back to magpies...

 

[LeagueXIII]

I am not for chopping teams or relocation necessarily, however if relocation is going to happen it has to be a Sydney club. Why would you relocate Canberra, Melbourne or Gold Coast when you are trying to increase your national footprint? The A League, Super netball, Big Bash don't have teams in Canberra because if you started from scratch you would put teams in the bigger capital cities first with maybe 2 each in Sydney and Melbourne, which is exactly what those 3 competitions have done. If NRL started from scratch tomorrow there is no way in hell they would put NINE clubs in Sydney, It would be madness.
The NRL/NSWRL expanded in its own unique way over many decades. Canberra, Illawarra and Newcastle were next cities out from Sydney so they all came in the 80s. Before that it was a Sydney only comp. Doesn't mean we have to keep putting suburban and small regional teams dotted around Sydney and Brisbane. The NRL should be looking at clubs in the major capitals that don't have teams, because why not? It's a billion dollar product, it's very marketable game and not everyone in those cities loves AFL or wants to follow the West Coast Eagles or Adelaide Crowes when they are at the bottom of the AFL ladder. You bank on those swing supporters who's attention will divert elsewhere when their main team is going shit. Brisbane has tonnes of Broncos fans who jump on the Lions bandwagon when the Broncos are out of the race.

AFL is a religion in Melbourne and Adelaide....these people don't desert their teams like in Sydney and rugby league. People live going to the afl in these cities.
Why do we need to relocate...we need to change our mentality from giving up on clubs to helping them grow and strengthen so they flourish.
Grow the game....

 

[LeagueXIII]

[/QUOTE] if the Sharks moved to the new SFS and called themselves Sydney Sharks they would be massive within 20 years.[/QUOTE]

Rubbish....this changing names like Canterbury and Balmain did in the 90s is a nonsense....does nothing...these traditional names transcend their areas...like Richmond tigers Collingwood west ham arsenal etc

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Andrew Abdo mentioned Stabilising, Renovating, then Growing. At no stage has he said places like Perth, Adelaide or others are off the table. Even despite PVL's previous comments. And PVL was recently very complimentary of the SA Government (on 100% footy) with regards to the investment on RL with the Roosters/Storm games over the years and SOO. So it's not as though he sees Non-RL states as a waste of time (SA in this case) as I see it.

Growth (expansion) won't happen until the first 2 stages are assured. At the same time like myself, and maybe others have mentioned here before - it'll take a strong business case to do warrant an expansion team. Personally - I think Adelaide has a stronger case than many would believe but it would need respected voices driving it to make it happen. Brisbane 2 for me is the absolute logical next step. Then either Perth or Adelaide after that.

Abdo's comments below.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...n/news-story/086dd7578c0821bc190a58218505f027

EXPANSION ON THE TABLE?

One of the hottest issues in the game’s growth will certainly be expanding the number of teams in the NRL.

Abdo told NRL 360: “We want to grow. We need to start planning for it now.

“Our chair has been very vocal about this. Expansion will only happen if there’s a solid business case for it.

“The numbers have to stack up. It has to add value to the economy. We need to do that analysis in a post-covid environment.

“We need to figure out if it’s going to add value to the game. And if it does then we need to have a plan to get there.

“It’s not off the table but equally there are a few things we have to do first before we move to that phase.”

And he’s not just eyeing off growth in new areas of the country – he also wants to ensure the game fights off the increasing influence of rival codes in the NRL’s heartland.

He declared the need to: “better connect (with fans and communities), particularly with regional NSW and QLD” – areas where he said the game’s body was “structurally challenged”.

“We’ve got a lot to do – and we can’t overpromise and underdeliver. We’ve got to work methodically through everything.

“It’s not just about spending more money in areas. It’s about being cleverer or being more innovative … that’s how we’re going to win.”

We've heard that sort of diplomatic talk from Gallop and co over the last 15 years.

The talk about numbers needing to stack up doesn't bode well for Adelaide and Perth. The amount they would need to convince head office would be massive. The Brisbane bids would blow Perth and Adelaide out of the water.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Looking at a map of Brisbane I can see 3 teams there in the future...Broncos...redcliffe/sunshine coast and a team on the other side of the river firehawks call them east Brisbane tigers dissolve wests tigers back to magpies...

I like the way you think and agree about the Magpies.

If Easts Tigers became the Brisbane Tigers then surely it appeal to some Balmain fans.

 

[LeagueXIII]

It is true, people just want to pretend that it isn't because it's convenient to do so, and you all have to ignore the examples I give you to do it. You don't need a large percentage of people to have a large impact, and there are definitely strong feelings, GROTD is proof of that.

Finally, if the Sharks moved to the SFS and called themselves the Sydney Sharks you wouldn't see a bunch of the other teams fans jump ship to support them, and the NRL can't afford to wait for generational change for a second Brisbane club to take root, especially not when it could be an overnight success if we did it right.

Mate, I *live* in Wellington (have all my life), and I can tell you that we're not ready for 3 teams here.

Two, yes - especially if the Warriors convert their late season form this year into a strong few years ahead.. but a 3rd is 10 years away at least, and Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane 2 (and probably 3) would be ahead of us getting a 3rd team.. due to timezones & market size.

I admire you're commitment to 3 NZ teams, but from this Kiwi's viewpoint you're in cuckoo-land.

On a side note are there any local league clubs based in the city itself?

 

[adamkungl]

I happen to be one of those nuts, lol. I think if a NZ 2nd club is desirable for the NRL, Christchurch has it over anywhere else due to the stadium, their sporting culture, and their inbuilt hatred of all things Auckland. As far as the attendance goes, I think it's a case of "build it & they will come" - NZ HAS to have more covered stadia built here, because our professional sports have to be evening kickoffs for overseas TV.

In summer, that's no problem, but in a Kiwi winter it just ain't family-friendly in an outdoor stadium.

Also chiming in as a pro-Christchurch nut

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

We've heard that sort of diplomatic talk from Gallop and co over the last 15 years.

The talk about numbers needing to stack up doesn't bode well for Adelaide and Perth. The amount they would need to convince head office would be massive. The Brisbane bids would blow Perth and Adelaide out of the water.

Brisbane v2 (south Qld) etc is a must.

But after that, I feel Perth n Adelaide are the next best positioned.

The Warriors need to get their shit in a sock before any second NZ team can come into the equation at all. And they’ve had 25 years... But in their favour actually doing this will be Gus Gould.

 

[flippikat]

I never said you would add NZ2 and NZ3 in 2020 FFS. I've stated before in another thread, Brisbane 2 would be in 2023, NZ2 would be 2028, Brisbane 3 would be mid 2030s and NZ3 would be some time in the mid 2040s.

Didn't you once claim Perth should have 2 teams?

You do realise that Perth cannot sustain 1 team on its own, right?

The Reds went bust in 1995 and had to be bailed out by News Ltd. It's why they went with Super League. That was when Fremantle were making their debut season and only won a few games. Now Perth has two mega AwFuL clubs and an RU club.

How on Earth do you expect Perth to support 2 RL teams against that?

The Force failed in Perth and had to be bailed out by a sugar daddy. RU is far bigger than RL in Perth, about double the size, at least. Let that sink in.

Adelaide will probably never be in a position to support its own team and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Same goes for Perth.

Wow.. a lot to unpack there.

First, I agree with you that NZ 2 in the wave after the next one is a good idea. However, anywhere beyond the next 2 expansion waves is a dicey thing to guess. A lot of moving parts if you're looking into the 2030s or 2040s.

That being said, further NZ teams beyond those first two would IMO need Australia to have the right profile first, a profile that makes the N in NRL truly mean NATIONAL. That includes Perth & Adelaide. As I said, I strongly believe NZ3 cannot happen before this. We (New Zealand) have NO right to expect 2 more NZ teams in an Australian league before the Australian footprint is right & fit for trans-tasman expansion. We may even be lucky to get a 2nd anytime soon, and I understand that. (Keep in mind there's a sizable part of the Australian RL community that doesn't even think the Warriors should exist!)

You mention my comments about a 2nd Perth/WA team. That's clearly poured fuel on your anti-Perth & anti-Adelaide fire, so I feel I should clarify a little. 2nd WA team is a distant prospect - much like NZ3.

However, if/when the time comes to consider it.. after the first Perth team, after Brisbane 2 (and probably 3 as well), after NZ 2, Adelaide, and maybe also Central Coast - then WA 2 has factors that stack up well against Brisbane 4 and NZ 3. Brisbane will have enough teams with 3 already, and IMO a potential guaranteed late slot in WA (2 WA teams means you can have a late game EVERY weekend) offers more than a 3rd NZ team, because you can have early games every weekend with 2 NZ teams already - what more does a 3rd NZ team offer for tv timeslots?

I think at that far-distant time, any expansion would come down to a choice between Melbourne 2 & Perth 2.. to get a new derby in a big city, just as other sports leagues aspire to. The tough choice is whether timezone or population wins out.

 

[mongoose]

Fair enough.

Sydney would probably be fine with 2 fewer teams, provided they stayed alive in a merger or relocation. I wouldn’t go any lower than 7 teams though, as it is a big market with rich history.

I don't see Perth supporting a team on its own or convincing the 16 clubs, ARLC, QRL or NSWRL to admit them into the competition. They might be swayed into adding Bris 2 and NZ2, but even those 2 options are a long shot at this stage. PVL said no clubs for WA or SA. Why people keep convincing themselves WA and SA are a chance of getting their own teams, despite PVL saying they won't, is something I have trouble understanding.

yes you've already stated you don't see Perth being able to support an NRL team cause its fumbelball-land or whatever and will cost 926 billion dollars per year

 

[flippikat]

yes you've already stated you don't see Perth being able to support an NRL team cause its fumbelball-land or whatever and will cost 926 billion dollars per year

Yup, to quote a quote..

You do realise that Perth cannot sustain 1 team on its own, right?

*sigh*

 

[Perth Red]

Nrl has a max ten year window of opportunity before Cummins and Puddy are likely gone. Miss the opportunity in next few years to leverage of these two multi millionaire RL fans and the game will have misseD the ideal time to establish a WA nrl club. I’m not holding my breath.

 

[LeagueXIII]

No expansion is what happens when we are beholden to a media power like News Ltd. We need the all clear from them before we expand.

 

[ash the bash]

Maybe keep this thread about Dolphins NRL bid..

Potential names:

1) South Queensland Dolphins
2) Moreton Bay Dolphins
3) North Brisbane Dolphins
4) Brisbane Dolphins

Previously preferred MB Dolphins however would not mind SQ Dolphins either.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

H

Maybe keep this thread about Dolphins NRL bid..

Potential names:

1) South Queensland Dolphins
2) Moreton Bay Dolphins
3) North Brisbane Dolphins
4) Brisbane Dolphins

Previously preferred MB Dolphins however would not mind SQ Dolphins either.

Moreton Bay Dolphins has to be the name. South Queensland is too generic.

 

[flippikat]

Maybe keep this thread about Dolphins NRL bid..

Potential names:

1) South Queensland Dolphins
2) Moreton Bay Dolphins
3) North Brisbane Dolphins
4) Brisbane Dolphins

Previously preferred MB Dolphins however would not mind SQ Dolphins either.

"Welcome to the Expansion forum, where thread-drift is a way of life..."

In all seriousness though, fair point. Sorry about that wee diversion.

I honestly think another Brisbane xxx doesn't make marketing sense, as the Broncos occupy that space..and Moreton Bay & North Brisbane paint them into a suburban corner.

My pick is definitely "South Queensland Dolphins" as it makes a balance with NQ Cowboys, harks back to the Crushers brave yet ultimately doomed effort to take on the Broncos, and states their desire to draw support outside their Qld Cup Redcliffe base.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No expansion is what happens when we are beholden to a media power like News Ltd. We need the all clear from them before we expand.

That's right. When the bulk of the game's revenue is provided by a broadcaster, they will have a lot of say on the matter. Especially when they own the largest RL club in the world and their television empire is on its knees. No other Pay TV company is in a position to challenge for the rights. Foxtel hold all the cards.

People forget News Ltd wanted the NRL to be a 14 team competition. The only reason we are at 16 is because a court order forced the NRL to readmit Sydney Souths.

Would we even have the Titans if Sydney Souths didn't fight their way back into the competition?

I don't see any interest from the networks for a ninth game.

Wasn't there an article a few weeks back saying the plan is to add another Brisbane team and then wait for one of the other clubs to fall over to bring it back to 16?

Dolphins are probably be the only team that has a realistic chance of getting in. I fully support the Dolphins bid. It will provide a good geographic spread and has wealth and prestige to back it up.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Do the Netball team and the Falcons Qld cup team & league academy have any overlap in terms of operations? Eg clubrooms, training facilities, etc..

With little overlap, it'd be easy to have the Storm still owning/operating the netball, and divesting itself of all league operations.

The model I'm thinking of is the Redcliffe Dolphins as the NRL team's reserve team, and the SC Falcons as more a development-slanted team. Generally local late teens-early 20s players coming through, with a view to come up through (to the Dolphins NRL team).. an academy up there under the ownership/management of the Dolphins would make sense - if the Storm are willing to sell up and farm juniors somewhere else.
Maybe instead of a Joint Venture as PerthRed suggested, the Dolphins may just buy a controlling stake in CC Falcons.. or buy the whole club?

The Sunshine Coast Lightning Netball team is a joint venture between the Storm and The University of Sunshine Coast but the relationship with the Sunshine Coast Falcons RL club is a feeder arrangement which could change if the clubs choose to. But at least in the short to medium term the Storm seem to be pretty settled in. I would imagine things might change down the track if the Vic RL start producing juniors that make it to the Storm's ranks.

I guess the SEQ Dolphins could have Redcliffe and SC Falcons as their feeder teams if the storm ever cut ties with the region.