Match Discussion: Round 20 vs Eels @ Bankwest Stadium

[WA Tiger]

With Bellamy as coach imo we would definitely be top 8
At least
...First He would teach the boys how to tackle both as a team, just as Cleary did effectively when he was at WT and then one on one regardless of the size of the opponent. Then ins-till the discipline required to execute ...unfortunately Madge just has no clue?

..No coach has lasted more than 2 years mainly because they haven't been good enough as man managers and apparently lacking control / discipline of the players and the rest of their coaching skill set, didn’t blow the house down either... With Cleary he was offered another job at a club he previously coached at, knew and preferred....

The problem now is that we have overcompensated for the past by hiring a coach that has extreme discipline but little else except a premiership 6 years ago... and we are riding on that to claw our way out of the mess.The problem is THINGS ARE GETTING WORSE.We were 2 points away from breaking the record for conceding 28 points in 8 consecutive games yesterday.Never been done before.

You declare your smart and now your up to a 5 year extension for Madge ..Im not sure which is more un smart, that one or your prediction to Stryker that we will definitely be top 4 next year. They are both bizarre statements.
At least the top 4 prediction was after a game we played well in

Whoops I got it wrong
SMH ...Never in 112 years had the Rabbitohs scored so many points against the Roosters, nor had a team conceded 26 points or more in 10 consecutive weeks, as Wests Tigers did. ....

 

[Pezz70]

Whoops I got it wrong
SMH ...Never in 112 years had the Rabbitohs scored so many points against the Roosters, nor had a team conceded 26 points or more in 10 consecutive weeks, as Wests Tigers did. ....

What does this prove? f**king nothing. Your hero Benji Marshall was in the side for everyone of the games that we had 26 points scored against us but 1or 2!!! In the games that he was out, I think it was seven from memory only once did a team score more than 20 against us. He was a liability all season, we’d have been better off development wise without him, we may have finished around the same spot, I predicted, 12-14 early in the season, but we’d have been in a better position for next season.After the last few games I have revised my prediction for next year, I think we’ll be 9th ,(I’ll pay up end of season Stryker it’s in my diary mate) but I think 2022 we will start looking competitive.

 

[WA Tiger]

What does this prove? f**king nothing. Your hero Benji Marshall was in the side for everyone of the games that we had 26 points scored against us but 1or 2!!! In the games that he was out, I think it was seven from memory only once did a team score more than 20 against us. He was a liability all season, we’d have been better off development wise without him, we may have finished around the same spot, I predicted, 12-14 early in the season, but we’d have been in a better position for next season.After the last few games I have revised my prediction for next year, I think we’ll be 9th ,(I’ll pay up end of season Stryker it’s in my diary mate) but I think 2022 we will start looking competitive.

It proves the coach is substandard..

 

[BrotherJim05]

It proves the coach is substandard..

You are literally the only person who isn't a fan of Madge..

I was about to give you shit but I actually respect you playing Devil's advocate. I truly hope you are wrong about Madge (which I'm sure you also hope), but we will never know until we know

 

[Front-Rower]

In the games that he was out, I think it was seven from memory only once did a team score more than 20 against us.

Here are the stats:

* Benji played 16 games this year, but we will exclude this game;
- Vs South’s in rd. 9 he came off the bench and played the last 10 mins or so

* In the 15 games he started, the team conceded less than 26 points on only 3 occasions (Rds 1, 3 & 10)

* In the 4 games he didn’t play, we conceded 14, 20, 6 & 19 (Rds 5, 6, 7 & 8)

https://afltables.com/rl/teams/wests_tigers/wests_tigers_by.html#2020

According to the league live app;

* Marshall averaged 10 runs per game

* Marshall averaged 61 running metres per game

* Tackle success rate 88% (259/296)

* 148 kicks in general play for an average kicking distance of 28 metres

* 2 x 40/20 kicks

* 17 try assists

 

[WA Tiger]

You are literally the only person who isn't a fan of Madge..

I was about to give you shit but I actually respect you playing Devil's advocate. I truly hope you are wrong about Madge (which I'm sure you also hope), but we will never know until we know

Thank you, I figured something like that was the case. I think all will be revealed and confirmed next year We will see. It’s a shame we have to wait so long to see whose right. However I’m happy with the sheer volume of proof that currently backs my side regarding Madge not being up to it and the scarcity of proof on the “back Madge” side .. Dont be fooled by apparent for and against numbers. Im not the only one who wants Madge out. There are the obvious dissenters and the others that just don’t want to spend all day fighting about it..whereas I don’t mind fighting for a good cause all day if I have to...I like that stats source..I would like to see how many games were won with Marshall playing and then without and the missed tackle stats from each player during those games that he played

As much as you’d like to attribute the missed tackles by the rest of the team during the games Marshall played to Marshall, you can’t ....Points conceded is an all team weakness in defence strategy / attitude and that can be attributed to Madge. As mentioned before Chinny nailed it with Benji and players that we were glad to see the back of in the side (maybe apart from Corey T) . Madge hasn’t nailed much at all, with what appears to be a stronger team..Why not?

 

[Tiger Ted]

You are literally the only person who isn't a fan of Madge..

I was about to give you shit but I actually respect you playing Devil's advocate. I truly hope you are wrong about Madge (which I'm sure you also hope), but we will never know until we know

I’m another one who doesn’t rate Maguire.He has been an abject failure.We have regressed over the 2 yrs he has presided over the team.We finished 11th this season after finishing 9th last season.Our Defence is attrocious & has gotten a lot worse under a coach who strongly emphasises this aspect of the game.He has also proven to b strategically clueless devoid of a plan B when the team requires changes to rectify the dysfunctional garbage they r exhibiting.

He has made numerous mind boggling selection decisions & judgement calls.Handing the captaincy to a pussy like Mbye gifting brooks an extra 2 yrs & upgrading his contract to own the team when it’s glaring he can’t game manage dropping Benji at a pivotal time of the season when it wasn’t justified yet not dropping other players for under performing.

The signing of BJ on top $ has backfired massively.He also signed the slug Jennings & prematurely discarded Corey Thommo when we had a scarcity of backs without immediately replacing him.

Of major importance for a professional sporting teams coach Maguire is clearly devoid of man management skills.It’s not a good look when he defaults to flying off the handle when things go awry on the field.If that story that he wanted Benji & Robbie to talk to Mbye to relinquish the captaincy last season is true then he should’ve been severely reprimanded for dereliction of basic responsibilities of his job.

He has not earnt the privilege of an extension to his contract as based on performance he’s been an absolute failure.

 

[Fordy20]

Based on that stinging assessment, perhaps the board are doing the right thing by not to offer an extension yet. My concern in not offering Madge an extension is that his current contract expires at the end of this year and he could be snapped up by Melbourne for 2022 with Bellamy acting as coaching director with Smith as an assistant coach. I don't want to end up losing a fourth coach after roughly two years only to have another coach come in and start another rebuild. Madge is demonstrating he's learning from his mistakes and while it's true we've regressed on paper, personally I put a lot of the regression in defence and toughness down to the loss of Robbie Farah.

Farah came back to the Tigers in Ivan's second year, which was heading downhill fast. Before Farah arrived, the side had only manged to win two games from their last nine and those wins were against trash tier teams like the Bulldogs and Cowboys, who funnily enough still aren't in good shape. Farah comes back, arrests the slide and we finish 9th.

Then the first year Madge is in charge and we're on track for a finals spot, we lose two matches on the trot because both times we lose our first choice hooker to season ending injuries. Despite those loses, we were still on track for a finals spot until we also lost our first choice fullback. After that happened, whatever slim hope we had of beating a premiership threat like Souths went out the window.

So it comes as no surprise to me without Farah there to complement Marshall and to stiffen up our defence in the middle that we've gone backwards. Farah retiring also points to something else about our roster. There were a lot of aging players in it at the start of the year. Marshall, Lawrence, McQueen, Packer, Reynolds, Taylor and Thompson are 30 or above. None of these players will be there next year apart from Packer and Reynolds who were signed to huge contracts by Cleary. Madge has learned that we can't continue to rely on aging players and expect them to deliver prermierships.

That's the approach he's taken to recruitment as well. The forwards he recruited earlier like Utoikamanu and Blore are much younger than any player being released. He may have missed out on the 19yr old Saab when he let the 30yr old Thompson go, he replaced him with the 20yr old Kepaoa. While we're on wingers, our depth definitely isn't great there, but that hasn't stopped Madge from dumping Jennings. He hasn't played since round six and won't be offered another contract.

Madge has also identified other glaring holes, like how he gave Mbye a shot at demonstrating he was the game breaking fullback he was paid to be before going to market after Mbye showed he didn't cut it. The opinions are mixed on whether fullback is Doueihi's best position, but after Marshall went down in the last game of season, he showed he could make a handy partner for Brooks next year.

Madge also fixed our woeful hooker depth which has been a shambles since Taylor forced Farah out. He signed Walters and started a succession plan by landing young Simpkin. He also saw how rushing to sign a fullback didn't quite work out, so he was more patient and landed Harry Grant, who was our best player of the season. He's seen our lack of an experienced forward leader and snapped up Tamou. Fullback is still a worry, but that's always been an issue when we haven't had Hodgson or Tedesco and we are still in the running to get Josh Addo-Carr.

These are the reasons why I continue to support Madge and I think next year will demonstrate that he's laid the groundwork for success despite being hamstrung by almost a third of the cap taken up by a handful of underperforming and underwhelming players. If for some reason he's not our coach for 2022, any incoming coach won't have much to whinge about.

 

[Tiger05]

I'd give Madge an extension. He has made some mistakes and I can't tell if he has the coaching ability to get this team to the top but I see some good signs.

The main reason I say keep him is I think he is building the team up slowly but it's heading in the right direction. Luciano, Douiehi and Grant to me are all good signings. I think Tamou will be a good signing and worse case it's not a big long term contract. AJ and Blore also look like they may turn into quality players. I think he picks the right team and gives guys an opportunity to show they are up to it. If they aren't I think he doesn't pick them and moves them on if possible.

I reckon it's going take a while to tell if he is a top coach in relation to game plans etc. We don't have the cattle to compete at the top level yet.

 

[Shredder]

The broader question is; if we dump Madge who do we replace him with and why?

 

[macnaz]

Whoops I got it wrong
SMH ...Never in 112 years had the Rabbitohs scored so many points against the Roosters, nor had a team conceded 26 points or more in 10 consecutive weeks, as Wests Tigers did. ....

The 26 point stat doesn't mean very much , the game scores are higher then ever before now we are playing the Pandemic Cup , even the first 3 WINNING sides in the finals have all conceded 20 points or more .

 

[Tigerm]

The broader question is; if we dump Madge who do we replace him with and why?

Correct, I'm not 100% sold on Madge, but for me, it is about the playing talent we have & he appears to be addressing that & as you said, who else is there and do we want start all over again..

 

[WA Tiger]

Based on that stinging assessment, perhaps the board are doing the right thing by not to offer an extension yet. My concern in not offering Madge an extension is that his current contract expires at the end of this year and he could be snapped up by Melbourne for 2022 with Bellamy acting as coaching director with Smith as an assistant coach. I don't want to end up losing a fourth coach after roughly two years only to have another coach come in and start another rebuild. Madge is demonstrating he's learning from his mistakes and while it's true we've regressed on paper, personally I put a lot of the regression in defence and toughness down to the loss of Robbie Farah.

Farah came back to the Tigers in Ivan's second year, which was heading downhill fast. Before Farah arrived, the side had only manged to win two games from their last nine and those wins were against trash tier teams like the Bulldogs and Cowboys, who funnily enough still aren't in good shape. Farah comes back, arrests the slide and we finish 9th.

Then the first year Madge is in charge and we're on track for a finals spot, we lose two matches on the trot because both times we lose our first choice hooker to season ending injuries. Despite those loses, we were still on track for a finals spot until we also lost our first choice fullback. After that happened, whatever slim hope we had of beating a premiership threat like Souths went out the window.

So it comes as no surprise to me without Farah there to complement Marshall and to stiffen up our defence in the middle that we've gone backwards. Farah retiring also points to something else about our roster. There were a lot of aging players in it at the start of the year. Marshall, Lawrence, McQueen, Packer, Reynolds, Taylor and Thompson are 30 or above. None of these players will be there next year apart from Packer and Reynolds who were signed to huge contracts by Cleary. Madge has learned that we can't continue to rely on aging players and expect them to deliver prermierships.

That's the approach he's taken to recruitment as well. The forwards he recruited earlier like Utoikamanu and Blore are much younger than any player being released. He may have missed out on the 19yr old Saab when he let the 30yr old Thompson go, he replaced him with the 20yr old Kepaoa. While we're on wingers, our depth definitely isn't great there, but that hasn't stopped Madge from dumping Jennings. He hasn't played since round six and won't be offered another contract.

Madge has also identified other glaring holes, like how he gave Mbye a shot at demonstrating he was the game breaking fullback he was paid to be before going to market after Mbye showed he didn't cut it. The opinions are mixed on whether fullback is Doueihi's best position, but after Marshall went down in the last game of season, he showed he could make a handy partner for Brooks next year.

Madge also fixed our woeful hooker depth which has been a shambles since Taylor forced Farah out. He signed Walters and started a succession plan by landing young Simpkin. He also saw how rushing to sign a fullback didn't quite work out, so he was more patient and landed Harry Grant, who was our best player of the season. He's seen our lack of an experienced forward leader and snapped up Tamou. Fullback is still a worry, but that's always been an issue when we haven't had Hodgson or Tedesco and we are still in the running to get Josh Addo-Carr.

These are the reasons why I continue to support Madge and I think next year will demonstrate that he's laid the groundwork for success despite being hamstrung by almost a third of the cap taken up by a handful of underperforming and underwhelming players. If for some reason he's not our coach for 2022, any incoming coach won't have much to whinge about.

That’s all selection..Madge could do all that from his desk with a couple of seats and a phone in his spare room at home. If we get JAC, keep Grant, add Tamou, even bring back Tadesco we will still struggle to get into the 8..why because Madges man management and coaching skills are pretty much non existent...He can’t plan on the run, he can’t see when something isn’t working and needs changing..His temper threshold and lack of willingness to have the hard conversations is a concern..He doesn’t know the first thing about defence strategy..I just can’t believe you all think just picking a team gives someone the credentials to coach a team successfully and to move up the ladder..Shit I could do that ..

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

That’s all selection..Madge could do all that from his desk with a couple of seats and a phone in his spare room at home. If we get JAC, keep Grant, add Tamou, even bring back Tadesco we will still struggle to get into the 8..why because Madges man management and coaching skills are pretty much non existent...He can’t plan on the run, he can’t see when something isn’t working and needs changing..He doesn’t know the first thing about defence strategy..I just can’t believe you all think just picking a team gives someone the credentials to coach a team successfully and to move up the ladder..Shit I could do that ..

Don’t forget the change room rebellion when the loafers tried to take over.

I would have copped it if they were having a red hot go, but all we got is whinging and whining from players at 60%. It was embarrassing.

They can shape up or ship out.

If you want to kick goals for us, ffs, you can spend 2 to 3 hours a day, 7 days a week , 52 weeks a year- down at a local oval practising. Rain, hail or shine, unless you have a medical certificate. After X months you’ll be very very good at it and help us into the finals. Plus it’s handy come contract time.

Our players can get over their lentil latte Entitlement bullshit and work until they win or die trying.

I thought we should have axed 3 or 4 more.

They can mow concord oval or clean up homeless shelters if they won’t live, breathe having a red hot go.

If they join the Madge program and fail, by all means show him the door, but not a second earlier.

 

[WA Tiger]

Don’t forget the change room rebellion when the loafers tried to take over.

I would have copped it if they were having a red hot go, but all we got is whinging and whining from players at 60%. It was embarrassing.

They can shape up or ship out.

If you want to kick goals for us, ffs, you can spend 2 to 3 hours a day, 7 days a week , 52 weeks a year- down at a local oval practising. Rain, hail or shine, unless you have a medical certificate. After X months you’ll be very very good at it and help us into the finals. Plus it’s handy come contract time.

Our players can get over their lentil latte Entitlement bullshit and work until they win or die trying.

I thought we should have axed 3 or 4 more.

They can mow concord oval or clean up homeless shelters if they won’t live, breathe having a red hot go.

If they join the Madge program and fail, by all means show him the door, but not a second earlier.

I see where you are coming from ..It’s funny how a few of yous are locked into “they must be spoilt little shits” ...That those players need to wake up ..I disagree.The majority of those players imo would likely have their heads screwed on and are just dealing with a tyrant as is expected.. I had a boss that was a Car nnt once..Have you?This guy was an effective leader for a little while but then his mouth lost him his job.. but that behaviour doesn’t work any more.Its not sustainable...it worked 50 years ago..If you can’t communicate now forget it...Everyone knows that and that there’s a better way..a revolt makes perfect sense to me...which then takes all the focus off what’s important..winning...I’m not buying that those guys are the idiots you are making them out to be...It all starts and ends with Madge and he has and will again, get what he deserves..

And Homeless shelters don’t need to be cleaned out..The homeless just need to be left alone until sunrise imo or be given a break of some kind.. ..Unless it’s their fault of course as some would think..

 

[Front-Rower]

Don’t forget the change room rebellion when the loafers tried to take over.

I would have copped it if they were having a red hot go, but all we got is whinging and whining from players at 60%. It was embarrassing.

They can shape up or ship out.

If you want to kick goals for us, ffs, you can spend 2 to 3 hours a day, 7 days a week , 52 weeks a year- down at a local oval practising. Rain, hail or shine, unless you have a medical certificate. After X months you’ll be very very good at it and help us into the finals. Plus it’s handy come contract time.

Our players can get over their lentil latte Entitlement bullshit and work until they win or die trying.

I thought we should have axed 3 or 4 more.

They can mow concord oval or clean up homeless shelters if they won’t live, breathe having a red hot go.

If they join the Madge program and fail, by all means show him the door, but not a second earlier.

Did you post this under the wrong account? It’s the most sensible thing you have ever posted.

Madge gave in after his ‘senior player’ sooked it was all too hard and conformed with said player’s wishes.

And reading above that our defence went to the crapper because Farah retired, well fmd. Are you blokes still that hung up over your kindergarten girlfriend as you are over Robbie and Benji. FMD

 

[WA Tiger]

Did you post this under the wrong account? It’s the most sensible thing you have ever posted.

Madge gave in after his ‘senior player’ sooked it was all too hard and conformed with said player’s wishes.
Madge didn’t give in....he wouldn’t know how

And reading above that our defence went to the crapper because Farah retired, well fmd. Are you blokes still that hung up over your kindergarten girlfriend as you are over Robbie and Benji. FMD

I don’t think that’s Fordy20 ..He doesn’t right those long winded posts..I mean that’s endless....and they’re coming in waves ..
Madge didn’t give in .. he wouldn’t know how

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Did you post this under the wrong account? It’s the most sensible thing you have ever posted.

Madge gave in after his ‘senior player’ sooked it was all too hard and conformed with said player’s wishes.

And reading above that our defence went to the crapper because Farah retired, well fmd. Are you blokes still that hung up over your kindergarten girlfriend as you are over Robbie and Benji. FMD

I’m obviously having an off day.

The school first grade kicker, he’d be down the oval for hours a week practising his conversions from all angles.

I found out through a mate.

Then sometimes we’d watch our mates play outside of school. Jump in the car for a night game and enjoy from a beat up and probably unregistered old Holden .
I’m not having a lend, but one mate went from prop in the school XV to playing winger in league at local club level.

Almost unstoppable one on one, but slow yes...Bj is much quicker and much bigger!

 

[Tigers Tale]

"If we could get Ado Carr to play fullback, move Gutho to 6 and DBrown 7. Moses offloaded. Would anyone be against that?"

This is a cut and paste from the Eels site from last night. I had a laugh but they are a fickle bunch over there, Moses better start looking over his shoulder.....the knives are out.

Also, they can f##k off, we want JAC.

 

[Tigers Tale]

Correct, I'm not 100% sold on Madge, but for me, it is about the playing talent we have & he appears to be addressing that & as you said, who else is there and do we want start all over again..

You're right when you say playing the talent we have. If we had 5 or 6 SOO players in the team and were regularly getting in the 8 we wouldn't be having this conversation....we are perennial battlers because of the cattle we have (generally forced upon us). In all the years I've followed footie (a long time) I've really only seen Bellamy turn crud into gold.....