Just a Thought - Possibly Already Mentioned

[Inisai Toga]

Good bump Gregstar.

Agree with your post but the trouble is Dragons need to get better at doing shit within the same system the Roosters, Storm and others operate in.

Agree, didn’t see us complaining when we won 11 in a row.
Whilst I think the lack of transparency around third party is poor, it’s time we looked in the mirror and make it happen. Bennett saw the positives and we reached that level for 3 years and Brown before that. Looking forward to the climb back

 

[TruSaint]

Whilst I hate the Storm, its an amazing effort.
Good time to be a Storm fan.

 

[Dragonslayer]

The Storm and Roosters:
Professionally run businesses, who strive for excellence and won't tolerate underacheivement. Both with hard nosed coaches who want nothing but a premiership.

The Dragons:
Business run like a sunday market, jobs for the boys, split board who delight in Yum Cha, whose idiology of achievement is (almost, sort of) making the 8. Coaching, see jobs for the boys.

Hopefully, events of the last couple of months can start to turn us into the professional club we should be. Good signs atm.
I personally dont think it has much to do with 'rorting' per say, but professionally run organisations find a way to always be at the top. Unprofessionally run organisations just squabble amongst themselves to see who sas the most power.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Good bump Gregstar.

Agree with your post but the trouble is Dragons need to get better at doing shit within the same system the Roosters, Storm and others operate in.

The Storm were devastating last night, it was like a training run. I cant see them being beaten, lets hope the young Riff can get through and rise to the occasion because it won't be easy being highly likely its Smith's last game for them.

 

[RedVDave]

Madness, hard to believe they only played each once in a grand final though.

 

[Number of the Beath]

Agree, didn’t see us complaining when we won 11 in a row.

No, but when we won 11 in a row there was no salary cap, players had to live in the area they were representing and you got three grades of football. If you weren't up to it in First Grade you were demoted to Ressies - or lower - and there was no slinking off in a huff to another club in mid-season cos you weren't chosen at fullback or whatever.
The fact that either Melbourne or the Rorters have contested 18 of the last 21 Grand Finals makes a mockery of the Salary Cap.

 

[Inisai Toga]

Possibly correct!

Whilst I’m not debating what you are highlighting, my main point is that we have failed in adapting to our current environment.
We were also successful in those years because of top line administrators who changed the face of the Sydney competition through their professionalism; in taking advantage of the successful Leagues Club or strong succession planning (i.e getting Kearny and Bath from England, Ryan to replace Wilson, Walsh for Kearney, Huddart from England), or applying latest training techniques etc..

Still a little confused why we haven’t achieved more with our brand and been able to capatlise more effectively on Joint Venture opportunities that could have challenged the dominance of these two clubs.

 

[George Sancti]

This is a very interesting thread. Clearly the results support the premise that the Roosters and the Storm are by far the best managed clubs in the completion.

When you break the numbers down into premierships and finals appearance, the results further indicate that being one of the junior development clubs is a clear disadvantage. Of the true development clubs, Dragons, Eels, Knights, Panthers, Wests and Warriors, the Dragons are possibly the best performing. I do not consider the Broncos a junior development club because in Brisbane, development is left to the second tire completion clubs.

Following are the number of premierships won by each club and the number of times that each club has made the playoffs since 2001 (excludes premierships taken off the Storm):

Broncos: 1 17
Bulldogs: 1 12
Cowboys: 1 10
Dragons: 1 11
Eels: 0 9
Knights: 1 8
Panthers: 1 8
Souths: 1 8
Raiders: 0 10
Roosters: 4 14
Sea Eagles: 2 11
Sharks: 1 12
Storm: 2 17
Wests: 1 3
Titans: 0 3
Warriors: 0 8

As was mentioned by another member, the NRL needs to introduce a scheme to reward the development clubs for the management of their of their juniors and to ensure the longevity of the game.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

This is a very interesting thread. Clearly the results support the premise that the Roosters and the Storm are by far the best managed clubs in the completion.

When you break the numbers down into premierships and finals appearance, the results further indicate that being one of the junior development clubs is a clear disadvantage. Of the true development clubs, Dragons, Eels, Knights, Panthers, Wests and Warriors, the Dragons are possibly the best performing. I do not consider the Broncos a junior development club because in Brisbane, development is left to the second tire completion clubs.

Following are the number of premierships won by each club and the number of times that each club has made the playoffs since 2001 (excludes premierships taken off the Storm):

Broncos: 1 17
Bulldogs: 1 12
Cowboys: 1 10
Dragons: 1 11
Eels: 0 9
Knights: 1 8
Panthers: 1 8
Souths: 1 8
Raiders: 0 10
Roosters: 4 14
Sea Eagles: 2 11
Sharks: 1 12
Storm: 2 17
Wests: 1 3
Titans: 0 3
Warriors: 0 8

As was mentioned by another member, the NRL needs to introduce a scheme to reward the development clubs for the management of their of their juniors and to ensure the longevity of the game.

Speaking of development clubs the Rorters buy a young talent in Flanno and have already sacked him because he didn't win a GF in his first year. They leave the heavy lifting to others, and if every club was like them there would be no game. At lease Melbourne although having no local juniors do develop a lot of players.

 

[Number of the Beath]

Possibly correct!

Whilst I’m not debating what you are highlighting, my main point is that we have failed in adapting to our current environment.
We were also successful in those years because of top line administrators who changed the face of the Sydney competition through their professionalism; in taking advantage of the successful Leagues Club or strong succession planning (i.e getting Kearny and Bath from England, Ryan to replace Wilson, Walsh for Kearney, Huddart from England), or applying latest training techniques etc..

Still a little confused why we haven’t achieved more with our brand and been able to capatlise more effectively on Joint Venture opportunities that could have challenged the dominance of these two clubs.

I totally agree with you regarding our admin. We have been floundering for years. Look at what we achieved in 1985 - minor premiers in all 3 grades (winning the club championship by a record margin), should have won all three GFs and yet we totally failed to capitalise on that momentum to the point where even though we contested 3 grand finals in the 90s we weren't considered a viable stand-alone club...

 

[possm]

I totally agree with you regarding our admin. We have been floundering for years. Look at what we achieved in 1985 - minor premiers in all 3 grades (winning the club championship by a record margin), should have won all three GFs and yet we totally failed to capitalise on that momentum to the point where even though we contested 3 grand finals in the 90s we weren't considered a viable stand-alone club...

It was all a lot deeper than that. A deal was done with Super League and the competition had to be reduced when both groups joined together again. Although the ARL won the battle, it seemed that Super League with their media friends won the war.

Instead of joining Saints with the Steelers, the new NRL should have relegated the Steelers to NSW Cup and done the same with Norths, Balmain and Wests. The ARL had no trouble dropping Newtown to NSW Cup. So from there teams would look like this:
1. Sydney Outer West
With Penrith and Campbelltown joining forces.

2. Sydney Inner West
With Canterbury and Parramatta joining forces.

3. Sydney City
With Eastern Suburbs and South Sydney.

4. Northern Districts
With Manly Norths and Gosford

5. Southern Districts
With Saints, Cronulla and Illawarra

6. Canberra

7. Newcastle

8. Brisbane City

9. Gold Coast

10. Sunshine Coast
With Redcliffe to Wide Bay

11. North Queensland
With Townsville, Cairns and Darwin

12. Melbourne City

13. Adelaide City

14. Perth City

15. New Zealand
With North and South Islands

16. Pacific Islands
With New Guinea, Fiji, Solomon Islands, Tonga

We currently have enough players to field 16 teams so the costs (except for transport) should not be much more than the current costs. I would say the extra reach would encourage more players to play rugby league. With such a wide reach, Fox TV and commercial channels would be in front of additional markets.

This restructure of clubs is one of the hard changes that need to be made in order to expand the game while at the same time improve it's reach throughout our region.

 

[gregstar]

5. Southern Districts
With Saints, Cronulla and Illawarra

And PRESTO!

Just like that, my interest in rugby league would completely evaporate.

If at any stage Saints disappear or if their brand is bastardized any further, I will have zilch desire to watch, support, or contribute to the game of rugby league from that moment until I snuff it.

 

[Dragon set in stone.]

And PRESTO!

Just like that, my interest in rugby league would completely evaporate.

If at any stage Saints disappear or if their brand is bastardized any further, I will have zilch desire to watch, support, or contribute to the game of rugby league from that moment until I snuff it.

I second that .

 

[Inisai Toga]

Yes, as you highlight ‘Number of the Beath’, we built up brilliantly after the Bath years, being so strong in all 3 grades for about 3-4 years in mid 80’s.

However, the Fleming administration failed to capitalise on that before building up again under the Brian Smith years. Saints were in a bloody strong recruitment and development position though prior to Super League war. Built up again with the early Joint Venture years and then Bennett's tenure before this latest lull. There’s been a bit to admire in their adapting to set backs, but in my opinion a little slow at times to adapt to the game’s & club’s evolution....

 

[Inisai Toga]

It was all a lot deeper than that. A deal was done with Super League and the competition had to be reduced when both groups joined together again. Although the ARL won the battle, it seemed that Super League with their media friends won the war.

Instead of joining Saints with the Steelers, the new NRL should have relegated the Steelers to NSW Cup and done the same with Norths, Balmain and Wests. The ARL had no trouble dropping Newtown to NSW Cup. So from there teams would look like this:
1. Sydney Outer West
With Penrith and Campbelltown joining forces.

2. Sydney Inner West
With Canterbury and Parramatta joining forces.

3. Sydney City
With Eastern Suburbs and South Sydney.

4. Northern Districts
With Manly Norths and Gosford

5. Southern Districts
With Saints, Cronulla and Illawarra

6. Canberra

7. Newcastle

8. Brisbane City

9. Gold Coast

10. Sunshine Coast
With Redcliffe to Wide Bay

11. North Queensland
With Townsville, Cairns and Darwin

12. Melbourne City

13. Adelaide City

14. Perth City

15. New Zealand
With North and South Islands

16. Pacific Islands
With New Guinea, Fiji, Solomon Islands, Tonga

We currently have enough players to field 16 teams so the costs (except for transport) should not be much more than the current costs. I would say the extra reach would encourage more players to play rugby league. With such a wide reach, Fox TV and commercial channels would be in front of additional markets.

This restructure of clubs is one of the hard changes that need to be made in order to expand the game while at the same time improve it's reach throughout our region.

Thank heavens they didn’t go that way!

 

[SGMax]

You can call the Roosters a professionally run club, but take away the financial input and business connections from Politis and they will flounder. (How old is he anyway?)
The poor enforcement and loopholes in the salary cap have handed them an unfair playing field where they are running downhill and with the wind at their backs.

The answer for the NRL (if they are interested) is in front of their noses...the fantasy league competitions.
Every player is awarded a salary cap value and any team signing him can negotiate more or less, apply TPA's but the the value on the salary cap is set.

 

[boardlumps62]

With all due respect Mr Angry, it's not an even playing field....that along with poor refereeing and judiciary inconsistencies is why fans are walking away from the game.......NRL is losing it's appeal for many people...

My thought our game we love is being slowly changed to resemble touch (football). The speed of the game is electric if you haven't noticed go watch this weekend matches. The problem is the refs sorry ref struggle to keep up. I like one ref. But forward passes are now acceptable sorry not!!!!. Dodgy decisions like a captain's call goes wrong that's it you get no more help because the ref then switches off and turns a blind eye.
The big problem is the injuries to players mainly hammies due to the speed. Add head knocks because of the desperate defence required to offset the speed of the game. Six again so open to ref bias.

 

[Bayside Dragon]

No, but when we won 11 in a row there was no salary cap, players had to live in the area they were representing and you got three grades of football. If you weren't up to it in First Grade you were demoted to Ressies - or lower - and there was no slinking off in a huff to another club in mid-season cos you weren't chosen at fullback or whatever.
The fact that either Melbourne or the Rorters have contested 18 of the last 21 Grand Finals makes a mockery of the Salary Cap.

Plus it was only an 8-team competition.

 

[Inisai Toga]

Plus it was only an 8-team competition.

No, I think you’ll find it was a 10- team competition Bayside Dragon

 

[Inisai Toga]

My thought our game we love is being slowly changed to resemble touch (football). The speed of the game is electric if you haven't noticed go watch this weekend matches. The problem is the refs sorry ref struggle to keep up. I like one ref. But forward passes are now acceptable sorry not!!!!. Dodgy decisions like a captain's call goes wrong that's it you get no more help because the ref then switches off and turns a blind eye.
The big problem is the injuries to players mainly hammies due to the speed. Add head knocks because of the desperate defence required to offset the speed of the game. Six again so open to ref bias.

Agree mate, it is so much like touch! A bit suspicious of the way the game is heading due to all the points you raise.