The Case for Adelaide.....

[greenBV4]

Now they just need a Melbourne Storm Queensland Cup club. They have fans up here, so it will be well attended.

travel wise NSW probably makes more sense, and your right about the NSW Cup basically being a reserve grade comp whereas the Qld Cup is more standlalone - hence why I'd like to see the NSWCup overhauled and made more similar - with the eventual goal of them turning into a north and south conference of a national/international 2nd division with a superbowl like playoff

but yeah, money

 

[RedVee]

I'd love to see the Queensland Cup become more national. Adding teams from Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth will increase its audience base and attract more money from sponsors. A viable nationwide second tier competition will grow the game organically, which is the only way to improve its position in the affiliate states.

I'd love to see the NSW Cup become more national. Adding teams from Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth will increase its audience base and attract more money from sponsors. A viable nationwide second tier competition will grow the game organically, which is the only way to improve its position in the affiliate states.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'd love to see the NSW Cup become more national. Adding teams from Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth will increase its audience base and attract more money from sponsors. A viable nationwide second tier competition will grow the game organically, which is the only way to improve its position in the affiliate states.

If the NSW Cup provided more sponsorship opportunities then sure, but how would Adelaide and Perth compete with NSW Cup clubs from Sydney and Newcastle now that they're full of NRL contracted players?

 

[siv]

If the NSW Cup provided more sponsorship opportunities then sure, but how would Adelaide and Perth compete with NSW Cup clubs from Sydney and Newcastle now that they're full of NRL contracted players?

By taking the NRL professional players out of the competition

You do this by setting up NRL Reserve Grade

Then all other teams in NSW Cup or Qld Cup are on equal footing with their part time players

That also allows opportunities for expansion and NSW regional areas to participate in 12 of 14 team comp

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

By taking the NRL professional players out of the competition

You do this by setting up NRL Reserve Grade

Then all other teams in NSW Cup or Qld Cup are on equal footing with their part time players

That also allows opportunities for expansion and NSW regional areas to participate in 12 of 14 team comp

I like this idea.

 

[The Great Dane]

By taking the NRL professional players out of the competition

You do this by setting up NRL Reserve Grade

Then all other teams in NSW Cup or Qld Cup are on equal footing with their part time players

That also allows opportunities for expansion and NSW regional areas to participate in 12 of 14 team comp

If you did that you'd effectively be taking all the best talent out of the state leagues and putting them into a competition that revolves around the same 16 NRL clubs, which not only would make the sport even more top heavy and Sydney-centric, but would also instantly kill any potential interest in the state leagues as independent products, and destroy any chance of teams of outside of the 'heartlands' ever being viable in the lower tiers.

Why do that to create a totally pointless competition that nobody wants or will give two shits about, when you could use that talent to create a new product and grow the sports' reach and relevance in a bunch places that get little to no love from the NRL system?

Honestly if anything we should be trying to get the NRL clubs influence out of the lower tiers as much as possible, not cementing their control over the lower tiers.

 

[siv]

Because for the professional pathways its about developing players to best of their ability and playing multiple games on game day for the fans of NRL clubs. NRL clubs need their players developing to the standards, set plays etc etc that are needed to compete at NRL level

While State Leagues or second division are the realm of the part-time footballer

Mixing the two means you cant expand, you cant play multiple games on game day, the standard of the professional player standard drops

You will find that the few hundred real Newtown, Bears, Mounties, Blacktown fans will still turn up and watch. And you will be able to grow into new markets.

I have seen my kids become totally disinterested in the lower grades when their players were turning our in other club colours, playing at different venues, and on different days. It feels like watcjing a favourite playing playing for Manly or Easts

While in reverse as a lower tier club fan, you know those NRL players dont want to be there. Some might play well while others just go through the motions. They dont train as a team due part time footballer work commitments. Initially as a lower tier fan it good but after a while you see through it

We have had two different divisions since 1961, like it or not. Both need to operate in their own manner because they have different objectives

Its a key reason why most NSW NRL clubs are evolving back the reserve grade model

 

[Perth Red]

Maybe there is a balance point somewhere. Maybe an u23 reserve grade and then up to 5 nrl registered players per club in a second tier comp? Never going to happen though as nrl doesn’t want to spend its money in this way, nrl clubs don’t want to spend more money on a reserve grade and state leagues don’t want to give up any power over their premier comps.

 

[greenBV4]

the state leagues are fine with a professional/semi-professional mix IMO
If other teams want a leg up they can form feeder arrangements

 

[siv]

nrl clubs don’t want to spend more money on a reserve grade and state leagues don’t want to give up any power over their premier comps.

Lets look at these two points

NRL already spend money on 30+6 players, U20s players, U18 and U16 players

While trainers, doctors etc are shared acriss their senior operations

Coaching is easily addressed by having the assistant coach to coach RG and the RG assistant coach to coach U20s

NRL venues and training fields are already paid for too

State Leagues give up their power

This is where the real issue is. Qld not such a issue. But in NSW a big deal.

Bar the Bears all other clubs Newtown, Wenty, St Marys, Windsor, Blacktown, Mounties, Sydney Bulls, Ryde-Eastwood, Shellharbour were in a Cup comp below Reserve Grade

So its not a signifant adjustment for thus clubs to be the basis of the NSW state league

Then then could do what Qld did and add the NSW Country divisions

That then allows for Perth and Adelaide to join either State League.

You now have a product for TV that can be broadcast in that WARL or NTRL timeslots

 

[Perth Red]

One thing it could be used for is nrl to launch its own streaming service. It isnt costly to stream games at a lowIsh quality these days, they could stream every game with the game of the week put on abc or similar nationally.

 

[siv]

the state leagues are fine with a professional/semi-professional mix IMO
If other teams want a leg up they can form feeder arrangements

I suspect you are not a fan who tries to go to both NRL and its lower grade games on a weekend, when you make that comment

What it does do is introduce issues in the draw scheduling

Lower grade games cant be played on NRL match days

I gave up attending feeder club games as it was just too hard. You just couldnt physically do it.

Replacement strategy issues when highly paid 18th and 19th men can miss playing a game on a number of weekends

Fans being forced to choose go to NRL game or go to lower grade games and watch NRL on TV

Devalued season ticket which had included 3 games on game day to just being NRL 1 game and then being forced to also pay to attend a lower grade game

Kids like to get to know their U20s heros and watch them come through into first grade. You also lose this

But with NSW clubs full if players 18 to 30 plus 6 you cannot expand. Even merged clubs Wests-Balmain and St George-Illawarra both reverted to running 1 squad. It the becomes impossible for say NSW Western Division or Adelaide to join.

The whole State League/merged RG process only benefits the State League fan who mainly watches NRL on TV or not at all

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Lets look at these two points

NRL already spend money on 30+6 players, U20s players, U18 and U16 players

While trainers, doctors etc are shared acriss their senior operations

Coaching is easily addressed by having the assistant coach to coach RG and the RG assistant coach to coach U20s

NRL venues and training fields are already paid for too

State Leagues give up their power

This is where the real issue is. Qld not such a issue. But in NSW a big deal.

Bar the Bears all other clubs Newtown, Wenty, St Marys, Windsor, Blacktown, Mounties, Sydney Bulls, Ryde-Eastwood, Shellharbour were in a Cup comp below Reserve Grade

So its not a signifant adjustment for thus clubs to be the basis of the NSW state league

Then then could do what Qld did and add the NSW Country divisions

That then allows for Perth and Adelaide to join either State League.

You now have a product for TV that can be broadcast in that WARL or NTRL timeslots

Great post. The Queensland Cup was far better before it formed ties with a few NRL clubs. Each club had its own identity.

 

[greenBV4]

All fair points (and probably deserves it own thread..) i just don't see the NRL or clubs spending money on recreating a reserve grade, they got rid of it for a reason

Thus the next best thing would be to overhaul and fix the state cups

 

[siv]

All fair points (and probably deserves it own thread..) i just don't see the NRL or clubs spending money on recreating a reserve grade, they got rid of it for a reason

Thus the next best thing would be to overhaul and fix the state cups

Lets talk cost for NRL Reserve Grade

NSW NRL clubs pay for players 18 to 30 plus 6 and U20s players - so no player costs to
NSW NRL Clubs

Venues are already rented so no additional cost there

Warriors already have the full structure in place and fly everyone from NZ. While Melbourne does the same to Queensland and for their U20s

 

[greenBV4]

Lets talk cost for NRL Reserve Grade

NSW NRL clubs pay for players 18 to 30 plus 6 and U20s players - so no player costs to
NSW NRL Clubs

Venues are already rented so no additional cost there

Warriors already have the full structure in place and fly everyone from NZ. While Melbourne does the same to Queensland and for their U20s

If it was so financially viable why did they scrap the NYC?

 

[The Great Dane]

If it was so financially viable why did they scrap the NYC?

For basically the same reason as they got rid of reserves back when the sport went professional in the 90s; because it was a net cost that couldn't be monetised because there was basically zero interest in it from either the fan base or broadcasters.

In other words it was an expensive luxury that held no monetary value.

 

[The Great Dane]

Because for the professional pathways its about developing players to best of their ability and playing multiple games on game day for the fans of NRL clubs. NRL clubs need their players developing to the standards, set plays etc etc that are needed to compete at NRL level

While State Leagues or second division are the realm of the part-time footballer

Mixing the two means you cant expand, you cant play multiple games on game day, the standard of the professional player standard drops

You will find that the few hundred real Newtown, Bears, Mounties, Blacktown fans will still turn up and watch. And you will be able to grow into new markets.

I have seen my kids become totally disinterested in the lower grades when their players were turning our in other club colours, playing at different venues, and on different days. It feels like watcjing a favourite playing playing for Manly or Easts

While in reverse as a lower tier club fan, you know those NRL players dont want to be there. Some might play well while others just go through the motions. They dont train as a team due part time footballer work commitments. Initially as a lower tier fan it good but after a while you see through it

We have had two different divisions since 1961, like it or not. Both need to operate in their own manner because they have different objectives

Its a key reason why most NSW NRL clubs are evolving back the reserve grade model

Sure the professional pathways is about developing strong professional players to feed the system, however that doesn't mean that the pro pathway has to be controlled exclusively by the NRL clubs.

We are just about the only major sport in the world that I can think of that does it that way, and it seems to me that the only reason we do it that way is for the same reason that is the root of most of the major problems in the sport; there are a handful of clubs at the top whom have to much power over the sport, don't care about the health of the sport more broadly outside of their club, and do everything in their power to try to have a monopoly over everything in the sport because they are terrified of any new competition that may arise, because that competition might erode their power over the sport.

You talk about multiple games on game day and how important it is, but we've had multiple games on game day almost all of my life and the reality has always been that 95%+ of the fan-base of the clubs that it's supposedly so important to don't give a f**k about any of the leagues but first grade, and only an extremely tiny minority are paying the price of entry to watch the lower tier matches.
I mean look at the NRLW or the Under 20s a few years back, they'd be lucky to be playing in front of more than 1k people most matches.

Linking those leagues to the NRL clubs kills their potential as commercial products, which is a disservice to them because they could be built into commercial products (particularly the women's league and the second tier), and it's a disservice to the sport because it just makes them a net cost on the clubs and NRL when they could be making the NRL a profit.

Also you say your kids become disinterested in the lower tiers when the teams aren't their team as it were, but did you ever stop to think that maybe they (and you) aren't the target audience and that maybe that is ok? Not everything needs to be about the NRL clubs and their fan-bases, and the fact that almost everything is about the NRL clubs and their fan-bases is one of the biggest things holding our sport back.

Just imagine where the sport would be right now if the thousands and thousands of fans in the bush were attending games locally every fortnight, that can't happen so long as the lower tiers are so strongly linked to the NRL.

 

[Perth Red]

All fair points (and probably deserves it own thread..) i just don't see the NRL or clubs spending money on recreating a reserve grade, they got rid of it for a reason

Thus the next best thing would be to overhaul and fix the state cups

Maybe we don’t need any reserve grade? We’ve got through this year without one.
How many of the squad in the first 20 are not over 23 years old I wonder? Maybe clubs should only have 25 man squads Who train with main club, a further 6 who can play in second division clubs and then the option of signing players from second division to cover long term injuries during the season? If needed clubs could run an under 23’s side

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If it was so financially viable why did they scrap the NYC?

Players were committing suicide.