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Will Kikau take a hit up in his own half? And other grand final questions..

soc123_au

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Staff member
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18,452
why didnt they challenge it?
No idea. I guess given how Kikau had been going to that point he may not have been confident. It was on the short side, so the rest of the team wouldn't be sure either. The one who should have seen it was the touch judge. In any case a successful challenge doesn't recreate the scoring chance.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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65,411
No idea. I guess given how Kikau had been going to that point he may not have been confident. It was on the short side, so the rest of the team wouldn't be sure either. The one who should have seen it was the touch judge. In any case a successful challenge doesn't recreate the scoring chance.

they made up for it by allowing a try that is a penalty every day of week. Even Gus had to concede it was never a try lol
 

Hutty1986

Immortal
Messages
34,034
Still in a bit of shock when it came to Cleary's game last night. He is normally so composed-so much so he garnered 'robotic' comparisons, but he has grown significantly as a player these last 12 months. Despite his age and previous reputation as a 'silent partner' (and i used to bag him a fair bit), i thought this was a bloke absolutely primed to calmly steer the Panthers to the premiership.

But he was deadset shitting his pants from that very first set. No composure, could not build pressure with his kicking game, barely ran. I doubt he ever throws a pass that reckless, that completely f**king awful, as the one he brainlessly hurled for Vunivalu's try, ever again. Sadly, with their 7 completely losing his marbles, and their forward leader being a massive liability, the Pennies couldn't recover from a nightmare of a first half.

Hopefully they learn from this and are even better in 2021. They should win the comp.
 

soc123_au

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Staff member
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18,452
they made up for it by allowing a try that is a penalty every day of week. Even Gus had to concede it was never a try lol
I don't think you will find anyone that thought the To'o try should have been given. It was a blatant square up. In the context of the game though I would have preferred the legit one to play out, 16 - 6 & its a different game. It would have calmed Penrith down in my mind. We will never know now which is a shame.
 

Desert Qlder

First Grade
Messages
9,081
Phil Gould: How the Panthers won the grand final

The Roar welcomes guest columnist Phil Gould to bring his unique take on the grand final.

How does a team rise to the occasion, as the Penrith Panthers did, to win a grand final?

Victory on the biggest stage of all doesn’t happen by accident: Penrith’s triumph in the NRL grand final was the result of years of careful planning and built on the back of a powerful foundation built by me when I arrived at the club and fixed everything that was wrong.

Without the incredibly hard work done by a committed person behind the scenes, my vision might never have come to fruition. But on Sunday night, Ivan Cleary and his players saw my work pay off in spades.

There are those who will quibble about the Panthers’ victory, and say there is an asterisk beside this year’s premiership.

The pandemic changed the nature of the competition, they’ll say. The shortened season means it’s not a “complete” victory, they’ll say.

Their opponents were weakened by having to relocate for the year, they’ll say.

Technically, when the grand final ended, they were behind on the scoreboard, they’ll say.

This is all petty nitpicking, however, and overlooks some key points:

  1. As Cam Smith noted, had the game gone another two minutes, anything might have happened. The Panthers would, in the view of all good judges, definitely have scored again, making the score 26-26. After that, a field goal would have settled the matter. Since when do we decide that a team has “lost”, when we know full well that if the game lasted longer than eighty minutes they would have won?
  2. The Panthers, it is generally agreed, were very unlucky. All three of the Storm’s first-half tries would, if something different had happened, not have been scored. It would be a brave man indeed who declared the result of a match based on something as ephemeral as luck.
  3. On at least a dozen occasions, I have seen Penrith come back from huge deficits to win. There is no reason to suppose that this did not happen again on Sunday night.

Someone should tell the Panthers they won the big one. (Photo by Mark Kolbe/Getty Images)

All arguments aside, the fact is, Penrith were the best team all season, and on grand final night they proved what a skilled and courageous side they are.

If anything this year’s win is more meaningful than other years, as the Panthers had to overcome the stresses of lockdown life, as well as a formidable final opponent in Melbourne. On top of all that, to emerge as premiers despite scoring fewer points than their opposition represents a colossal achievement.

The win was set up in the first half, when Penrith were completely dominant. Penrith dominated every aspect of the game: attack, defence, tactical kicking, physical attractiveness and working-class solidarity.

The Storm at no point had any answers to the Panthers’ perfectly-executed game plan. In the end they had to resort to catching passes from Penrith players to score, so impossible did they find it to score off their own.

The intercept, as Warren Ryan always said, is the coward’s way: you could tell from the Melbourne players’ faces that they were ashamed to have scored in this manner.

Self-belief was the key in that first half: every time the Storm scored, you could see the Panthers’ belief growing stronger and stronger. They knew, as I did, that Melbourne’s over-eagerness to constantly register “points” betrayed a deep insecurity in the men from the south.

By contrast, Penrith’s confidence in its plan and its system was that unshakeable that they didn’t need to compensate for their shortcomings by crossing the opposition line: they knew that they were better than cheap tricks of that nature. For them, it was enough to know that they were the better team, and that history would record them as such.

The greatest example of the Panthers’ attitude was Viliame Kikau. I’ve never seen him as focused and intense as he was on Sunday night, and that focus showed in his performance.

His willingness to make the big plays, to take the game up to the opposition, was clear in every knock-on he made – only someone who is one hundred percent up for the fight will have the courage to commit the quantity and quality of handling errors that Kikau did for his team.

In the second half, the plan came to fruition and the Panthers shut their cunning trap on the Storm. After Ryan Papenhuyzen’s long-range try – in which the Melbourne fullback ran frantically, as if fleeing his own self-doubt – the Storm was up 26-0, and right where the Panthers wanted them.

Through a series of artfully-constructed set plays the rightful premiers simply took Craig Bellamy’s men apart. As they piled on try after try through strong running, precision kicking and superb passing, their opponents wilted, scuttling one by one to the sin bin in sheer terror of the thrashing they were receiving on-field.

Again, it’s worth mentioning that this was precisely the plan that was put into place several years ago by me. It could not have been executed any better.

When the full-time siren went, and it became clear that the mountain had been scaled, that Penrith actually were 2020 premiers, I am not ashamed to say I broke down and cried.

This was the fulfilment of a beautiful dream, and the boys deserved to soak up every second of the glory they had earned. To the Storm’s credit, they were gracious in defeat and Cam Smith gave a wonderful concession speech.

It’s rare in sport to see a perfect performance, but the Panthers’ effort on Sunday night was as close as you’ll ever get.

In decades to come, rugby league fans will say: I was there the night the Penrith Panthers achieved their greatest ever moral victory. For the players, the coach, the support staff, and most of all, for me, this was the ultimate.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/10/27/phil-gould-how-the-panthers-won-the-grand-final/
 

colly

Juniors
Messages
1,015
they made up for it by allowing a try that is a penalty every day of week. Even Gus had to concede it was never a try lol
Whats you take on this.
The first try ( a penalty try) was awarded by the bunker with the words " T May uses his foot to kick out the ball- which would result in a try."

No so, T May uses his leg ( closer to his Knee ) than his foot.
How many tries over the years have 'not' been given as the leg of the defensive player has prevented the ball from being grounded.
https://www.nrl.com/tv/news/match-highlights-panthers-v-storm-1133926/
So the bunker mentions the foot BUT the foot played no part in Olam's 'fumble' over the try line.
https://www.nrl.com/tv/news/match-highlights-panthers-v-storm-1133926/
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
52,539
Whats you take on this.
The first try ( a penalty try) was awarded by the bunker with the words " T May uses his foot to kick out the ball- which would result in a try."

No so, T May uses his leg ( closer to his Knee ) than his foot.
How many tries over the years have 'not' been given as the leg of the defensive player has prevented the ball from being grounded.
https://www.nrl.com/tv/news/match-highlights-panthers-v-storm-1133926/
So the bunker mentions the foot BUT the foot played no part in Olam's 'fumble' over the try line.
https://www.nrl.com/tv/news/match-highlights-panthers-v-storm-1133926/

Clear penalty try. You can’t kick at the ball. Issue your body, arms whatever not your feet. Players know this rule and it’s been consistent especially recently.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,411
Whats you take on this.
The first try ( a penalty try) was awarded by the bunker with the words " T May uses his foot to kick out the ball- which would result in a try."

No so, T May uses his leg ( closer to his Knee ) than his foot.
How many tries over the years have 'not' been given as the leg of the defensive player has prevented the ball from being grounded.
https://www.nrl.com/tv/news/match-highlights-panthers-v-storm-1133926/
So the bunker mentions the foot BUT the foot played no part in Olam's 'fumble' over the try line.
https://www.nrl.com/tv/news/match-highlights-panthers-v-storm-1133926/

lol he clearly kicks the ball out which is a penalty, it is in the act of scoring, and he would clearly of scored. Thats a penalty try every day of the week. It wasnt Olam putting the ball down on his leg, it was his leg deliberately kicking at the ball. You're literally the only person I've heard say it was a wrong call, good effort!!

Seen a lot of comments about Storm getting the 50-50 calls in first haf. Well that's because they were the correct call, they weren't 50-50, they were 100% right!
 

colly

Juniors
Messages
1,015
lol he clearly kicks the ball out which is a penalty, it is in the act of scoring, and he would clearly of scored. Thats a penalty try every day of the week. It wasnt Olam putting the ball down on his leg, it was his leg deliberately kicking at the ball. You're literally the only person I've heard say it was a wrong call, good effort!!

Seen a lot of comments about Storm getting the 50-50 calls in first haf. Well that's because they were the correct call, they weren't 50-50, they were 100% right!
Like I said, May did not use his foot. The way he used his leg was permissible to stop a scoring try.
 

taste2taste

Juniors
Messages
1,779
Will Gould Get through a GF call without criticising the ref?
We were less than 3 minutes into the game before Gus first ref whinge.

Lord knows why CH 9 hire him, he creates such a negative narrative to every game. Whinge and complaining for 80 minutes. I can't stand his commentary.
 

Someguy

First Grade
Messages
6,699
lol he clearly kicks the ball out which is a penalty, it is in the act of scoring, and he would clearly of scored. Thats a penalty try every day of the week. It wasnt Olam putting the ball down on his leg, it was his leg deliberately kicking at the ball. You're literally the only person I've heard say it was a wrong call, good effort!!

Seen a lot of comments about Storm getting the 50-50 calls in first haf. Well that's because they were the correct call, they weren't 50-50, they were 100% right!

Clear penalty try! I think most of the whinging about calls subsided when the emotion stopped. The penrith obstruction no try (and try) were textbook no tries.

The only calls that could reasonably gone the other way were the cam smith try there would have been some arguement for a smith knock on (would have been a penalty anyways api offside) and JFH hit was worthy of a sin bin, lucky it wasn’t a no.6,7 or 1 jumper he hit. Storm got away with one or two clear cut high shots and Yeo late elbow to the back of a tackled players head early in the game was missed.

If I was a panthers fan I would be really pissed that Nathan only jogged on the chase of vunivalu after the interception, really the difference between the teams. Had a storm player done that they would be off the team regardless who they are.

Panthers have the talent and depth to win 2 or 3 premierships over the next 5 seasons but run that Cleary play says it’s just as likely they will end up like parra and pile on the points when times are good and give up when it is not going their way
 

The_Frog

First Grade
Messages
6,390
He kicked out with the leg. Regardless of what part of the leg connected with the ball, you can't do that. It's an illegal play.
This rule was brought in for Billy Slater style kicks at the ball which risk injury. This was May trying to get his leg under the ball. Olam lost the ball when he tried to put it down on May's leg, just below the knee. There was no kick and the foot definately wasn't used as stated by the bunker. I believe there was a similar one to this earlier in the season involving Gutherson and the bunker ruled the opposite.

The Mansour no-try was a 50/50 but it did look as though Lee milked it after committing to tackle Crichton. These things are just a lottery at the best of times. The To'o try I didn't think we'd get, but they've ruled no-one was impeded by the Capewell decoy run. There has to be someone obstructed for it to be an obstruction.

The Smith try was fortuitous but apart from the play the ball while still lying on Yeo which the bunker could not rule on, fair enough. Koroisau was marker and once the ball cleared the ruck he was free to attempt a tackle. This play has been done several times this year by Jack Wighton.

None of which matters now. We weren't the better side although the Storm weren't that great either, but they were good enough to accept the chances we presented them. But didn't they flout the rules bigtime in the latter stages when under pressure. The Roosters must have been kicking themselves they couldn't make it through.
 
Last edited:

myrrh ken

First Grade
Messages
9,817
I thought the May call was harsh in real time but in the replay May leads with the leg and was not attempting any tackle before he makes contact.

Mansour no try is pretty clear. Crichton bumps into the Lee and pushes him backwards. If he looked like he made some sort of attempt to avoid him he might have got away with it.

Cleary not finding touch was the nail in the coffin.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
This rule was brought in for Billy Slater style kicks at the ball which risk injury. This was May trying to get his leg under the ball. Olam lost the ball when he tried to put it down on May's leg, just below the knee. There was no kick and the foot definately wasn't used as stated by the bunker. I believe there was a similar one to this earlier in the season involving Gutherson and the bunker ruled the opposite.

May's problem is he didn't have a hand on Olam. If he had hands on him and dislodged the ball by repositioning his leg then I'd agree it would be harsh to rule it anything other than a lost ball.

However, he had no hands on him and threw a leg out. Even If his leg hit the ground and Olam lost the ball putting it down I'd have no issue with a knock on.

As it is, the ball was in the air, he dislodged it with his leg. Intentional or not, the rules say that's illegal and it's a penalty try.
 

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