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Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

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franklin2323

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What if Luai gets an injury and gets slower? That’s not a good argument.

I don’t understand where this myth of Burton still growing has come from, he’s 21 years old. Very few people are still naturally growing at that point. He could fill out and put on weight, but that’s what the trainers are for. Luai could put on weight, Cleary could, anyone could.

One was part of a side that was run away minor premiers. Now is in the SOO squad

The other while promising hasn't achieved anything to push the other out. That is my point.

We as fans had to sit through a Bob Blair/Lewis halves combination...No we have an SOO halfback. And a fringe SOO player... Yet some want to push one out on a whim that he might be better
 
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One was part of a side that was run away minor premiers. Now is in the SOO squad

The other while promising hasn't achieved anything to push the other out. That is my point.

We as fans had to sit through a Bob Blair/Lewis halves combination...No we have an SOO halfback. And a fringe SOO player... Yet some want to push one out on a whim that he might be better


No, that wasn’t your point in the post I quoted. I was responding to specific points about weight and speed.
 

WestyLife

First Grade
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6,088
Not when you do weights almost every day. He is going to bulk up as he grows


But a weight program can be tailored to your needs, he doesn’t have to bulk up. Also it’s very unlikely he’s still growing. He’s almost 21.

That's not how weight gain works. You gain/lose weight based on the quantity of food you eat. It's calories in Vs calories out. No amount of lifting will change that.

I'm thinking more about body shape more than weight.

I think what Herbet says has huge merit. Lui goes to together with Cleary like dip and crackers.

My choice wasn't to drop Luai so I wasn't arguing for/against that. Just correcting some misconceptions about training and weight gain.

Speak for yourself.

Touche. With Oak as the main sponsor.[/QUOTE]
 

franklin2323

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No, that wasn’t your point in the post I quoted. I was responding to specific points about weight and speed.

Injuries are part of footy so it is a risk with anyone BUT if you are going to move on someone in Luai's situation. You want to be sure they are better and they will be a long term half. Neither is the case yet with Burton
 

franklin2323

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Look at Wade Graham. Left around the same age to play 5/8th. Ended up at 96kg and in the backrow. Wouldn't he of gained less weight and stayed 5/8 if it was possible?
 

WestyLife

First Grade
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6,088
Look at Wade Graham. Left around the same age to play 5/8th. Ended up at 96kg and in the backrow. Wouldn't he of gained less weight and stayed 5/8 if it was possible?

Yes it's possible. I could tailor a diet for Wade Graham and have him under 100kg by the end of a season easily without any change in his training. Even adding weights. It's not the lifting that puts the weight on it's eating in a calorie surplus of the rights macro/micro nutrients. You don't just gain muscle and fat by genetics. Everyone can be skinny/fat/muscular with the correct guidance.
 
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Look at Wade Graham. Left around the same age to play 5/8th. Ended up at 96kg and in the backrow. Wouldn't he of gained less weight and stayed 5/8 if it was possible?


Graham never had the skills of Burton, he was more suited to the second row.

I argued myself that Luai is the preferred 5/8, but there’s no great risk in Burton being a half.
 
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Injuries are part of footy so it is a risk with anyone BUT if you are going to move on someone in Luai's situation. You want to be sure they are better and they will be a long term half. Neither is the case yet with Burton


As I said in my post about which one I’d leave out, it’d be Burton. But conversely if someone is demanding big bucks like Crichton, Burton would then go to the top of the list. Because he can potentially play several positions.

We can’t afford to overpay any of these guys right now because we’re paying RCG & Blake’s salaries, so Burton at 400-450k is better than Crichton or Luai at 700k.
 

franklin2323

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Yes it's possible. I could tailor a diet for Wade Graham and have him under 100kg by the end of a season easily without any change in his training. Even adding weights. It's not the lifting that puts the weight on it's eating in a calorie surplus of the rights macro/micro nutrients. You don't just gain muscle and fat by genetics. Everyone can be skinny/fat/muscular with the correct guidance.

They have diets. Backs and forwards do different training so something happened to get him moved to the pack. That is all I am saying
 

WestyLife

First Grade
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6,088
They have diets. Backs and forwards do different training so something happened to get him moved to the pack. That is all I am saying

Yes you're right you can tailor weight/cardio training for different positions. The original point about putting weight on though it's completely controllable outside medical issues. It would be entirely possible to have Graham lose 5kg - 10kg gain endurance and play as a 5/8 even now if the Sharks really wanted.
 

Jane Murray

Bench
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Injuries are part of footy so it is a risk with anyone BUT if you are going to move on someone in Luai's situation. You want to be sure they are better and they will be a long term half. Neither is the case yet with Burton
Wow, franklin, you won't give Burton a chance?
 
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This Crichton situation really pisses me off. We’ve got enough talent around the club that we should tell him like it or leave. It’s absurd to have a 25 game centre demanding this type of money. Post the origin period, give him a deadline. If not give his money to Leniu, Luai & Burton.
 

franklin2323

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As I said in my post about which one I’d leave out, it’d be Burton. But conversely if someone is demanding big bucks like Crichton, Burton would then go to the top of the list. Because he can potentially play several positions.

We can’t afford to overpay any of these guys right now because we’re paying RCG & Blake’s salaries, so Burton at 400-450k is better than Crichton or Luai at 700k.

I am not sure if it is overpaying though looking around.

Cotric signed as a centre despite having limited experience there. Deal was rumoured to be $1.8m over 3 years

Manu and Joey Leilua both on $600k.

Using that as a guide Staggs should get $600-$700k. As should Crichton

As for 5/8 only need to look at the other 2 in the SOO squad. Walker rumoured $700,000. Keary re-signed for $2.8m over 3 years. Both those sides are able to fit several big money players around them.

Key is getting value out of your cheapies
 
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I am not sure if it is overpaying though looking around.

Cotric signed as a centre despite having limited experience there. Deal was rumoured to be $1.8m over 3 years

Manu and Joey Leilua both on $600k.

Using that as a guide Staggs should get $600-$700k. As should Crichton

As for 5/8 only need to look at the other 2 in the SOO squad. Walker rumoured $700,000. Keary re-signed for $2.8m over 3 years. Both those sides are able to fit several big money players around them.

Key is getting value out of your cheapies


1. Some of those figures are from before the salary cap reduction

2. Some of those clubs need to overpay to attract talent - Tigers, Bulldogs

3. You’re mostly talking about established players, not a 25 game centre

4. He already agreed to 500k



As I mentioned in an earlier post, I’d give him 30-40k just so he feels he got something, but any more I’d tell him to go jump.
 

The Realist

Juniors
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1,637
Graham never had the skills of Burton, he was more suited to the second row.

I am going to have to disagree with this. At the same age Graham had a cut out pass that was better than any one of Cleary, Luai or Burton. The timing of his passes was also better. The closest I have seen in our current team to a young Graham is Tyrone May. The 'problem' Graham had is his frame was just too big for the halves. He wasn't quick enough laterally or in a straight line to be a long term 5/8 or 1/2 back. Ironically enough it is also the same problem with Tyrone May since his ACL - pre ACL injury he was definitely quick enough for the halves or even centre.
 

BxTom

Bench
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2,566
This Crichton situation really pisses me off. We’ve got enough talent around the club that we should tell him like it or leave. It’s absurd to have a 25 game centre demanding this type of money. Post the origin period, give him a deadline. If not give his money to Leniu, Luai & Burton.
The stupid part of it is the so called retention committee went out and signed Rennings anf Eisenthul (spelling?) for at least $220k which would have more than covered Crichton's increased demands. Instead we risk losing a good player so that Dave's mate can get some rejects back because he originally picked them
 
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