Test Series V. India; Post Mortem

[Twizzle]

Very disappointing finish, a few comments.

Firstly I found it odd that none of the pitches deteriorated and we hardly saw any swing bowling, except a little bit from India.

As the pitches didn't deteriorate, the ball didn't scuff so there was no reverse swing either. I dont think I've ever seen that prior. It affected Starc in a big way.

The Aussie Team

Red hot favorites given India's injuries but they showed guts and determination.

As Warner is 34 he batted like he had feet of clay which is a sure sign of old age, I'd look for a replacement prior to the Ashes. I don't like Harris much. Burns is done.

Puc keeps his spot, as does Smudge and Manus. Green is a keeper and I believe he will be a decent bowler as he has pace bounce and movement. He's only 21 and we really need to persevere as we will reap the benefits, no doubt he can bat.

Wade is not a test player. Whether Puc bats at 5 and we bring in a new opener or we appoint a new no 5 I dont think it matters, but we need to look for a newbie.

Paine as skipper was not a pass mark, same with his keeping, cost us the 4rd test. At 36 he should retire, plenty of replacements in Carey and Phillipe.

Paddy and Josh, big pass marks.

Lyon, never been a fan from day 1 (no big secret). He has had tons of opportunities o win test matches on day 5 and failed. He believes in concentrating on his stock ball (his words) but doesn't know the meaning of variation. Replace him with Swepson for mine, and now.

Starc is an enigma, can be a match winner but needs the ball to swing, either conventional or reverse and there was no swing all summer so he had a shocker. We need to work out why we had no swing which is down to our coaching staff. I like Patto but then we have 3 right arm quicks, need some variation. If we want to win the Ashes we need Starc to find his mojo as I dont think 3 right arm quicks is the way to go.

 

[Meth]

I just want to drop in and say what a bloody enthralling series. India showed tremendous character and broke Australia’s spirit towards the end of the day.

Hard to know where to go, but I don’t think you can afford to drop Warner until Pucovski is well and truly established.

Time for Wade to go. But for who?

Paine should go at the end of the Test Championship or the Ashes.

 

[BunniesMan]

Agree with most of this but I think our batting stocks are too thin to discard Warner just yet.

Look at our XI and who plays in the Ashes I would happily rule out Wade, Paine, Lyon, and Starc.

Wade has never been good enough. To tolerate Paine's mediocre batting average, he would need to be spectacular with the gloves (Healy) but he is certainly not that. Lyon has played 80 tests too many. Besides Harbhajan, nobody has made it to 100 tests with such a crap average. Starc might bounce back, but he looks like a champion racehorse who is done winning races for you.

We need to use 2021 to blood who is capable of winning us the Ashes and that is not half the blokes who played this summer.

 

[typicalfan]

Warner was underdone definitely, at home he is still a must until someone takes the spot imo.

The issues go beyond the team imo.

Paine looks like he has had his run, he was the captain we needed at the time but it's time to start looking to the future. Josh Inglis or Alex Carey are good batsmen and deserve their opportunity.

CA needs to come out and say if they will ever consider Smith to regain the C. It's the elephant in the room and imo no one else is ready for the job.

Cummins and Marnus unreal. Haze and Smith also decent series.

Also got to quit putting players in exile like Uzi. We don't have the depth to do this.

 

[Fangs]

Didn't take our chances, lost this series at the SCG. We were timid which is not the way we play cricket.

Lyon/Starc impotent. Made Cummins/Hazelwood work a lot harder and therefore made them less effective. Australia did not bowl as a 'pack'.

Jhye Richardson when fit and playing first class cricket again should be in our test 11. Neser, Pattinson, Abbott are all options as third seamer. Lyon you'd think is still the best spinner though selectors would take Swepson as a back up to SA I think.

Warner playing injured, didn't fire once. Consistent changes at the top of the order didn't help but India faced plenty of forced changes as well. No excuses.

Wade/Head/Burns were virtually not contributing with the bat when needed. Again putting way too much pressure on our 3 and 4.

Paine - poor fielding placements and some crap keeping as well. Not playing at the level required for an Australian captain.

Touring squad to SA will be interesting to see if it goes ahead.

 

[stryker]

The thing about Warner is that he is dreadful outside of Oz. This series he was dreadful here too. His body is breaking down and his heart does not seem in it fully. At 34 I’d cut him.
Wade has had his run. At 33 I would cut him as well.
Paine is slow to score and missing wicket opportunities. He is 36 and it’s time to go.
Lyon never does much for mine. Sydney and Brisbane were both setup on day 5 for him to close out victories. He failed. At 33 I’d start looking elsewhere.
Starc looks done. He can’t buy a wicket when it counts. He is only 30 so I would keep him for white ball but cut him for Tests.

That’s 5 changes, moving on historical average performers who again failed this series. These blokes are pretty consistent and the usual bad guys when we lose.

Coaching staff have failed. We were clear favourites to win due to circumstance and choked. This happens a lot. Our bowling plans look pathetic and far too rigid. We don’t adapt to the conditions nor the opposition. Our batsmen look worse. They look timid, afraid to get out. They push and prod and f**k around rather than settle in, get behind the ball and move the score forward. Even Manus and Steve played like this, giving multiple chances that luckily fell our way. Their class shone through as the series went on but they did it pretty tough as well. The side look mentally weak and unsure of themselves. It may be time to introduce youth and their stupid cockiness may reinvigorate the senior players who survive the cut to back themselves more. The side look a long way from being top test nation.

A big congrats to India. They have had a hard tour due to COVID lockdowns and injuries and stuck together, hanging tough to secure a famous series victory on foreign soil. They will get even better when their players return and set the benchmark for the 2020’s. If it wasn’t for two brilliant Smith innings in the ODI’s they would have clean swept their tour. I wish our squads could show the same amount of bottle.

 

[marshall stalin]

I would say apart from Cummins snd Hazelwood the bowling was poor- Stark failed to swing the ball/bowl yorkers or clean up the tail - Lyon tried hard but they needed more wickets from him - One may see the Sydney test was a big chance to go 2-1 up but so was Brisbane - they should have had more of a first innings lesd thsn 33 - poor bowling to allow 2 net bowlers to score 60 plus each.

A 150 lead would have meant India scoring 450 to win - a different game then especially when day 4 session 3 washed out - day 5 to score 450 would be impossible one would say - a case of survival.

Batting- openers failed to provide a platform and some poor batting in the middle order -Wade when set got out to similar shots 3 or 4 times.- Head the same

Going forward the next test series- test team from- i think 15 players are selected to tour? -maybe more with Covid-19- 19 players

Warner-Bat
Pucovski- Bat
Labuschagne- Bat/some Bowling
Smith- Bat
McDermott -made 100 for Australia A vs India- Bat/WK
Willdermuth- msde 100 for Australia A vs India- Bat/Bowl
Green- Bat/Bowl
Paine- Bat/WK
Philippe- Bat/WK
Carey- Bat/WK
Cummins- Bowl
Jye Richsrdson- Bowl
Lyon- Bowl
Hazelwood- Bowl
Swepson- Bowl
Abbot- Bowl
Neser- Bowl
Henriques- Bat/some bowling
Pattinson- Bowl

Dropped
Stark
Head
Wsde

 

[TIGER14]

Lyon, never been a fan from day 1 (no big secret). He has had tons of opportunities o win test matches on day 5 and failed. He believes in concentrating on his stock ball (his words) but doesn't know the meaning of variation. Replace him with Swepson for mine, and now.

I've said it before but Lyon is just a dickhead version of Kerry O'Keeffe. Can't spin a ball to save himself.
One of the most predictable spin bowlers Australia has ever had. If he gets his 400th Test wicket he will easily be the worst bowler on that list.

 

[simmo1]

The biggest difference was in the coaching and tactics of the two sides. India had a simple game plan of bowling fairly straight, staying patient and wait for Australian batsmen to get themselves after they got bogged down. Australia just bowled bouncers trying to intimidate a team that wasn't afraid.

Great series though. Probably the best home series in nearly 3 decades.

 

[undertaker]

Time for Wade to go. But for who?
.

If replacing Wade with a middle-order batsman with test match experience under his belt, Travis Head would be first choice

If replacing Wade with another debutant, Ben McDermott would be who I'd be taking a gamble on, and no, I'm not saying that because of his Big Bash form but rather he scored an impressive first-class century for Australia A vs India before the test series commenced against a bowling attack of Bumrah/Siraj/Shami/Saini. So, he's definitely got potential batting in the middle order.

 

[marshall stalin]

Of course India have a much much larger pool of players to pick from. They also have significant numbers of international coaches and players developing their players through various academies and IPL etc.

Australia needs to look at their development programs and domestic cricket set up - T20 is not a game to develop test players in - more red ball cricket is required at both grade and state levels.

Sheffield shield used to be the format in developing players to test level as a result of the differences in the wickets from fast/seam to spinning ones.

This would give a player a good grounding in what is required in batting/bowling and fielding on the various pitches which can be replicated with further training/exposure on pitches at overseas venues at the test level.

Test players hardly if ever play grade cricket and only a few Sheffield shield games each year which then distorts averages in both batting and bowling as non test players are not playing against test players/

If you made 100's or sizeable scores in both innings against say NSW that would really stand out if your facing their full bowling attack which is the Australian test attack rather than their second string attack - ditto bowling and taking the wickets of test batsmen for low scores.

They need have a balance between grade/sheffield shield/ODI and T-20 cricket so players can play sufficient numbers of each format.

Certainly it is getting harder with more touring and the increases in ODI and T-20 international series

 

[undertaker]

I've said it before but Lyon is just a dickhead version of Kerry O'Keeffe. Can't spin a ball to save himself.
One of the most predictable spin bowlers Australia has ever had. If he gets his 400th Test wicket he will easily be the worst bowler on that list.

Lyon is too one-dimensional and has only flourished when bowling on pitches that have either crumbled or offer a lot of turn. Otherwise, as Mark Waugh and other commentators mentioned today, he lacks the natural variation to trouble batsmen at the highest level. Compared to finger spinners like Colin Miller, he doesn't have a top spinner or arm ball; just the standard stock off break delivery.

Lyon's only got an extended run in the national side as he was lucky to get into the team at the time he did in 2011 after the national selectors during Andrew Hilditch's tenure went through 10 spinners in a 4 1/2 year period after Warne retired in a desperate attempt to find the next Shane Warne, and there wasn't much depth and competition in the spin bowling stocks at state level when Lyon made his debut.

 

[undertaker]

Of course India have a much much larger pool of players to pick from. They also have significant numbers of international coaches and players developing their players through various academies and IPL etc.

Australia needs to look at their development programs and domestic cricket set up - T20 is not a game to develop test players in - more red ball cricket is required at both grade and state levels.

Sheffield shield used to be the format in developing players to test level as a result of the differences in the wickets from fast/seam to spinning ones.

This would give a player a good grounding in what is required in batting/bowling and fielding on the various pitches which can be replicated with further training/exposure on pitches at overseas venues at the test level.

Test players hardly if ever play grade cricket and only a few Sheffield shield games each year which then distorts averages in both batting and bowling as non test players are not playing against test players/

If you made 100's or sizeable scores in both innings against say NSW that would really stand out if your facing their full bowling attack which is the Australian test attack rather than their second string attack - ditto bowling and taking the wickets of test batsmen for low scores.

They need have a balance between grade/sheffield shield/ODI and T-20 cricket so players can play sufficient numbers of each format.

Certainly it is getting harder with more touring and the increases in ODI and T-20 international series

The whole season schedule for the summer needs a complete overhaul.

It's not sustainable having a full home-and-away season for BBL and at the same time trying to emphasize the importance of Sheffield Shield. You cannot serve two masters....

 

[JJ]

Warner is Len Hutton-like in Australia.... and John Dyson outside Australia... (although until his epic meltdown I think he was good in RSA as the conditions are similar)... but can you drop him atm, beyond that can you afford to carry him outside of RSA/Aust, when he essentially is Joe Burns 2021...

While clearly there are some problems, on the playing side they are batting, and Lyon - but with 100 tests and 399 wickets, I don't see him being dropped any time soon... with the two consistently excellent quicks you can persevere with Starc's inconsistent brilliance imo - but Cummins has to open the bowling, that means Hazelwood at first change (which might be perceived as harsh for him, but Cummins is f**king Cummins...), or not playing Starc... there is a balance issue

But, the performance was the issue, not the talent - rather than the playing group, at the moment I'd be looking hard at the coaches...

 

[Smug Panther]

Opening with Starc over Cummins and use of DRS were huge factors and can be fixed very easily......

The batting can also improved by simply dropping Wade

 

[Twizzle]

The perceived gulf in depth between the 2 teams could have a lot to do with the fact that we play some one like Wade as a batsman cuz there is no one else putting their hand up.

The fact that we have f**k all 4 day games any more I think has a lot to do with this, we have the players but the only form we have is the Big Wank.

More Shield games needed methinks.

 

[Twizzle]

Another issue for mine with out bowling is how we bowl.

Paddy is the no 1 bowler in the world but for mine his length is too short. Surely they talk about lengths in team meetings. He beats the bat consistently but cant get an edge and definitely wont hit the stumps.

If he bowled at Haze's length, he will have less deflection off the pitch and perhaps hit the edge of the bat but if he misses the edge he can still hit the stumps. I never really saw him bowl any balls that would hit the stumps so his methods of dismissal are reduced.

He's a dam fine bowler but could be so much better if he adjusted his length.

You have to wonder what our coaching staff are telling them as they have the same coach and why all off a sudden is Starc not able to swing the ball any more ?

 

[Old tiger 79]

As I’ve said previously, JL, Ronald McDonald & Co have to go first, and now

 

[hineyrulz]

One comment I heard came from Harsha, he said people keep saying this is our B, C side but a lot of these players have played plenty of India A cricket the last few years and as such weren’t overawed when the time came to play. We on the other hand treat the Sheffield Shield like a Red Headed step child all the while bowling our collective loads over the Big Beat off.


Yes India have their IPL but they don’t comprise their first class cricket competition over it. The 20/20 disease is infecting the games at junior levels as well. Coaches continually promote the 20/20 over the more conventional through the V style players. I had a chat to a friend who’s son was overlooked for the QLD U 17’s side even though he was the leading run scorer in all competitions his last 3 seasons. The reason why is isn’t aggressive enough and he leaves too many balls. The young bloke is an opener as well, fair f**king dinkum these are the idiots coaching the future no wonder all the players coming through are front foot plodders.

 

[hineyrulz]

Oh and Justin Langer is an absolute moron who should be loaded into a canon and fired into the soon ASAP.