Tim f**king Paine

[typicalfan]

Smith was a mediocre at best captain and obviously a terrible leader

I don’t know whether Cummins can do it, but if they move on from Paine it looks like he an Head are the only options, and while he’s better than Wade, Head is dubious as a test bat

Smith was ok, tbh the leadership issues were from CA down, Smith himself was a young captain. The way he and Warner handled the CA player pay issue was great despite being slammed in the media.

 

[GongPanther]

Zampa wouldn't have been able to play, as he wasn't in the test squad to begin with. Under COVID-19 protocol, players cannot just go in and out of the squad like they did in the past. They have to remain in the bubble/hub once they join the squad. Swepson was the only other specialist spinner selected in the 18 man test squad from the start of the series.

In addition, Zampa can barely turn the ball at all and doesn't have the variation to trouble batsmen at test match level. His style of bowling is more suited to white ball cricket, where there's a heavier emphasis on line/length and dot-ball bowling, where he's enjoyed a lot of success in.

Mitchell Swepson would be the next test spinner in line should Lyon retire, get dropped, suffer a serious injury, or Australia are playing in the subcontinent or any turning pitch that justifies 2 specialist spin bowlers. He took an impressive 10-fer vs NSW in Shield cricket this season, and currently leads the leading wicket takers by a distance, 23 wickets @ 21.

I overlooked the squad numbers. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[JJ]

Smith was ok, tbh the leadership issues were from CA down, Smith himself was a young captain. The way he and Warner handled the CA player pay issue was great despite being slammed in the media.

I think the leadership issues remain above the captain tbh

 

[typicalfan]

I think the leadership issues remain above the captain tbh

CA is in danger of becoming the next RA.

 

[Eelogical]

He’s gone full Retread for me now by the looks lol. 20 odd messages on my profile lol.

Time to jump off Mossman Gorge FFS Brussy.

Looks like you've got yourself a stalker. Do you like being stalked?

 

[Eelogical]

Smith is 31, got a few years left in him. The conundrum is whether to give him the captaincy (which would effectively end Paine's career as well) and reopen wounds from sandpapergate or look to the future. Unfortunately, the second option has it's own problems as I can't see a new captain amongst the current team members.

 

[hineyrulz]

Looks like you've got yourself a stalker. Do you like being stalked?

Better than being ignored Brusssssssy Bro!!!

 

[typicalfan]

Smith is 31, got a few years left in him. The conundrum is whether to give him the captaincy (which would effectively end Paine's career as well) and reopen wounds from sandpapergate or look to the future. Unfortunately, the second option has it's own problems as I can't see a new captain amongst the current team members.

I think your point says it all. If someone else gets the captaincy, Paine is gone. Pretty much the only reason he is in the side, yet he is an average captain.

 

[JJ]

When Paine does go I’m not getting the concern over Cummins because he’s a bowler. I don’t think he’s captained much, so that’s more of a concern... but to suggest pace bowlers can’t captain is stupid, just off the top of my head Willis, Walsh, Wasin, Kapil, Pollock and Streak have all (I think) been test captains. Southee regularly leads our T20 team when Williamson isn’t there, I’m sure there are others ... Anderson perhaps?

In a way I think keepers and all rounders have the toughest job being captain, and the bias again quicks seem to be underwritten by an assumption they’re a bit thick... where are the grievance studies types, I’m sensing injustice

the likes of Pascoe, Lillee, Croft, Donald, Thomson, Starc, Wagner etc aren’t suitable captains because of who they are not because they’re pace bowlers

the likes of Holding, Southee, Anderson etc aren’t captains because there are better options... that should be the case for Cummins, is there a better option than Cummins moving forward?

 

[AlwaysGreen]

I'm thinking one of the main reasons there hasn't been more fast bowlers as captain is that while they're bowling they're concentrating on that and during their 'off' over they're down at fine leg etc chilling out a bit. So if they bowl a 6 over spell that’s 12 overs where they are concentrating on their own game.

Then you rarely see a fast bowler in the slips or at gully where, besides keeper, you get the best view of field settings DRS decisions etc. That can be solved by having a sensible keeper or slip to some degree to assist.

I think historically fast bowlers have been the ones to carry the can if a team fails and are more likely to get dropped then a batsmen. Also a bowler is more likely to get injured due to the strain of fast bowling and so you risk losing your captain for periods too.

 

[Bazal]

I'm thinking one of the main reasons there hasn't been more fast bowlers as captain is that while they're bowling they're concentrating on that and during their 'off' over they're down at fine leg etc chilling out a bit. So if they bowl a 6 over spell that’s 12 overs where they are concentrating on their own game.

Then you rarely see a fast bowler in the slips or at gully where, besides keeper, you get the best view of field settings DRS decisions etc. That can be solved by having a sensible keeper or slip to some degree to assist.

I think historically fast bowlers have been the ones to carry the can if a team fails and are more likely to get dropped then a batsmen. Also a bowler is more likely to get injured due to the strain of fast bowling and so you risk losing your captain for periods too.

Basically correct. Plus Cummins basically carries the attack anyway, do we need to further load him up? He's got a history of injury which would be a problem if he went down for a year again (please don't) and he doesn't have a strong captaincy resume....

People seem to want him just cos he's a popular cricketer. He does seem to have a good head on his shoulders but there's gotta be a better option all things considered

 

[JJ]

Basically correct. Plus Cummins basically carries the attack anyway, do we need to further load him up? He's got a history of injury which would be a problem if he went down for a year again (please don't) and he doesn't have a strong captaincy resume....

People seem to want him just cos he's a popular cricketer. He does seem to have a good head on his shoulders but there's gotta be a better option all things considered

yep, but you go with your best option - and if that's him they should go with him... unless you're looking for a Brearely type that probably shouldn't be in the side but is an exceptional leader - and if there was someone like that about then they'd be obvious... as an outsider, there seem to be only Labuschange, Smith, Cummins, and Hazelwood that should be certainties... Lyon, Paine and Warner in reality are at the moment - so surely it's from that bunch... that means Paine, and then probably Cummins unless something changes?

 

[The_Frog]

yep, but you go with your best option - and if that's him they should go with him... unless you're looking for a Brearely type that probably shouldn't be in the side but is an exceptional leader - and if there was someone like that about then they'd be obvious... as an outsider, there seem to be only Labuschange, Smith, Cummins, and Hazelwood that should be certainties... Lyon, Paine and Warner in reality are at the moment - so surely it's from that bunch... that means Paine, and then probably Cummins unless something changes?

The trouble is there is no first class competition to pick replacements from, and this was a Test lost with 2 overs left to bowl, it was far from a surrender. The Melbourne effort was far worse. For these reasons, I don't think there will be many changes if the SA tour goes ahead.

 

[Bazal]

yep, but you go with your best option - and if that's him they should go with him... unless you're looking for a Brearely type that probably shouldn't be in the side but is an exceptional leader - and if there was someone like that about then they'd be obvious... as an outsider, there seem to be only Labuschange, Smith, Cummins, and Hazelwood that should be certainties... Lyon, Paine and Warner in reality are at the moment - so surely it's from that bunch... that means Paine, and then probably Cummins unless something changes?

That's....what I'm saying. For the reasons mentioned, he's not the best option.

It'd be different if he was some standout, obviously great leader or genius tactician. But he's not. He actually seems like one of our quieter bowlers in many ways. And he's complicit in the shit bowling tactics.

Based on the fact he's about the same level as a couple of other options, I'd personally rule him out for the reasons mentioned.

 

[JJ]

That's....what I'm saying. For the reasons mentioned, he's not the best option.

It'd be different if he was some standout, obviously great leader or genius tactician. But he's not. He actually seems like one of our quieter bowlers in many ways. And he's complicit in the shit bowling tactics.

Based on the fact he's about the same level as a couple of other options, I'd personally rule him out for the reasons mentioned.

Sure, then my question is aside from Paine is there a better option atm?

 

[JJ]

The trouble is there is no first class competition to pick replacements from, and this was a Test lost with 2 overs left to bowl, it was far from a surrender. The Melbourne effort was far worse. For these reasons, I don't think there will be many changes if the SA tour goes ahead.

The sidelining of first class cricketer cricket worldwide is sad

 

[gUt]

Man that selected Tim Paine says selection was correct:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-26/australia-must-stick-by-tim-paine-greg-chappell/13091820

Australia must stick by Tim Paine despite shock series defeat to India, says Greg Chappell

Greg Chappell has thrown his support behind Tim Paine, with the Test legend claiming now is not the time to be jettisoning Australia's captain.

Paine's captaincy and wicketkeeping were thrown into the spotlight following last week's shock 2-1 series loss to India, after two poor day-five performances.

The 36-year-old is almost certain to lead Australia to South Africa next month — if the tour goes ahead — but it has not stopped questions being asked externally.

Chappell was one of Australia's selectors at the time Paine made the most unlikely of rises to captaincy following the ball-tampering scandal.

And while Paine put down three crucial chances in Sydney and another late in Brisbane, former Test captain Chappell said Australia must stand by their man.

"This is not the time to jettison Tim Paine," Chappell, who retired as a selector in 2019, told AAP.

"He's still the best keeper in the country and he's still averaged 40 in the Test series.

"Okay, he didn't have great games in the last two Test matches behind the stumps.

"But you can't overestimate how hard four Test matches in a row are, particularly for fast bowlers, and especially for a wicketkeeper-captain.

"It's an enormous workload and he probably suffered a little bit from the fact that he was pretty knackered by the end."

Despite regular questions over his batting, Paine's average of 32.63 remains the third-highest of all Australian wicketkeepers.

Under his leadership, Australia have retained the Ashes and won 11 of 23 matches, but have now dropped two home series to India.

Bigger questions remain over who could replace him, given Pat Cummins is the front-runner but no bowler has been the full-time skipper since Richie Benaud in 1964.

Chappell meanwhile finds it harder to come up with a solution for the Test team's middle order.

While he is willing to forgive a tired bowling attack for failing to run through India in Sydney or Brisbane, he believes questions still revolve around the batsmen.

Matthew Wade has failed to reach 50 in his past 14 innings, while the BBL through the middle of the summer means no batsmen have been able to press their claims.

"I don't think there are many [solutions], to be honest," Chappell, who was on Tuesday appointed as an Officer (AO) of the Order of Australia, said.

"They're going to have to do something but it's going to be a bit of guesswork involved.

"I'm certainly not critical of the bowlers, I'm not overly critical of Tim. I think our batting certainly let us down."

 

[typicalfan]

Tim Paine must not be dropped but we also cannot underestimate how hard it is to keep and to captain....so make it easier for him, keep him as keeper and C someone else??