News Do you care if Israel Folau returns to the NRL?

[Bazal]

It's quite amusing how you just shrug off the concept of freedom of speech like of course no-one could possibly believe in that.

So you're happy for anybody to express absolutely anything they like, no matter how evil or harmful?

That's a shit POV. And shows you don't understand freedom of speech.

 

[ACTPanthers]

Who'd have thought we had so many bigots in the RL community... Colour me surprised.

 

[chrisD]

So you're happy for anybody to express absolutely anything they like, no matter how evil or harmful?

That's a shit POV. And shows you don't understand freedom of speech.

Yes of course people should be free to express their views regardless of how evil or harmful you perceive them to be. Incitement to violence is the exception and far removed from this topic.

I've no doubt I've so much to learn from you regarding the concept of free speech.

 

[SBD82]

Why is it that the people who are the loudest advocates for free speech seem to be the ones that have the least understanding of it?

 

[Bazal]

Yes of course people should be free to express their views regardless of how evil or harmful you perceive them to be. Incitement to violence is the exception and far removed from this topic.

I've no doubt I've so much to learn from you regarding the concept of free speech.

So you're happy to send extremist Islamists into schools to give a talk on their views and why the west is Satan?

The Klan could send members out to a local YMCA to tell all the African teenagers why they're subhuman?

Westboro Baptist Church can walk into a public hospital and berate single mothers on the maternity ward?

Would you like to have a recording of Martin Bryant at Port Arthur giving talks about how it feels to shoot a tourist in the face?

None of these "incite violence"...and before you whinge about them being unrealistic or extreme, that's entirely the point. I'd wager 100% of people, including you, on either side of this argument would be against all four examples because they violate basic human morality.

Your objection to "suppression" isn't about supporting free speech. It's about supporting your own freedoms to have your own biases.

 

[fowlster]

This bloke believes in talking snakes, virgin births and raising the dead.

Best to stop listening to anything he says after that.

 

[dogslife]

I’m not going to debate that Lodge, Packer etc shouldn’t be getting gigs. I actually emailed the Broncos a letter when they signed Lodge.

I also find it extremely weird that a fair few people here do not think Folau’s comments are damaging.

Lodge’s shocking attack was towards one family. Folau’s hate speech was directed at entire communities - most adults who identify as LGBT can move past this, but the kids, that would be so hard to hear as you are trying to work yourself out and cling onto hope that people might not care about you being gay.

I do not have a religious bone in my body. And if there is an afterlife, I’m sure old IZZY will enjoy getting railed by Satan. Bye bitch!

Lodge, Packer etc broke the law, in some pretty vicious ways too.

Israel Folau hurt people's feelings.

Yet, it's Folau who the NRL doesn't want. Work that one out.

 

[Bazal]

This bloke believes in talking snakes, virgin births and raising the dead.

Best to stop listening to anything he says after that.

Sure but that's easy for you and I as adults.

Not so much for younger adults or teenagers struggling with their sexuality who play the game and look up to him as an athlete, necessarily. Being a teenager is shit enough already without struggling with that stuff.

 

[Disillusioned Tiger]

Lodge, Packer etc broke the law, in some pretty vicious ways too.

Israel Folau hurt people's feelings.

Yet, it's Folau who the NRL doesn't want. Work that one out.

I’m still stunned that Bubbler Boy is still not allowed to play! It seems very strange the things you can and can’t do to get banished from the NRL for eternity, let alone Heaven! (I made it a capital H so as to not offend anyone).

 

[fowlster]

Sure but that's easy for you and I as adults.

Not so much for younger adults or teenagers struggling with their sexuality who play the game and look up to him as an athlete, necessarily. Being a teenager is shit enough already without struggling with that stuff.

I didn't say it was easy, I said it was best.

Unfortunately (in my opinion), religion isn't going away, and the big religions have strong opinions about homosexuality written into their unalterable tomes.

I don't have a solution.

 

[Vic Mackey]

Sure but that's easy for you and I as adults.

Not so much for younger adults or teenagers struggling with their sexuality who play the game and look up to him as an athlete, necessarily. Being a teenager is shit enough already without struggling with that stuff.

I agree with all this, and it’s why I support Folau not being allowed to play

The questioning that many people like myself have is that we can just as easily say that allowing people like Lodge, Packer, Tetevano etc play harms people who have been victims of violence. A teenager girl physically abused then see’s a guy paraded around as a sporting hero who’s done the same. Can’t that have the same effect on them?

Andrew Webster who portrays himself as the moral arbitrator of rugby league and one of the most out spoken against Folau literally made a light hearted joke about Payne Haas threatening to bash a woman police officer

I mean WTF?!

 

[Disillusioned Tiger]

I can’t remember the full list of types of people who are going to hell, but I think I qualified for a couple of those. Don’t forget you have to actually believe in heaven and hell first. If you don’t believe then apparently you will end up at some imaginary place, so why do you care? If you do then you are well aware that Israel Folau plays no roll in this decision.
The bible, from which this list comes from, was written for 1st Century Christians. It has been translated so many times from it’s original language that it’s original message meanings have been changed to suit whoever translated it and even the current English version can be interpreted by anyone to suit their own agenda. Take it all with a grain of salt if you could be bothered to read it. Amen! Shit, I hope I didn’t spoil the ending!

 

[Bazal]

I agree with all this, and it’s why I support Folau not being allowed to play

The questioning that many people like myself have is that we can just as easily say that allowing people like Lodge, Packer, Tetevano etc play harms people who have been victims of violence. A teenager girl physically abused then see’s a guy paraded around as a sporting hero who’s done the same. Can’t that have the same effect on them?

Andrew Webster who portrays himself as the moral arbitrator of rugby league and one of the most out spoken against Folau literally made a light hearted joke about Payne Haas threatening to bash a woman police officer

I mean WTF?!

I agree BTW. And I think a lot do. Folau has the profile that some of those others don't, but myself and plenty of others express similar opinions on Lodge and Packer in game day threads. There's absolutely no way they should be playing in the NRL.

Same will go for Jayne and JDB if found guilty.

I do believe in people doing their time. I think that's a very grey area in these discussions. Manu Mau and Danny Wicks committed crimes, did their time, showed genuine remorse and never caused a single issue. Is there a way you can say a serial pest who brings the game.into disrepute without being a crook has done their time?

Haas I think is a rung or two down...worthy of a suspension but threats are very different to actions.

 

[chrisD]

So you're happy to send extremist Islamists into schools to give a talk on their views and why the west is Satan?

No I wouldn't personally send them, happily or otherwise. Unless they're inciting violence I wouldn't support a law stopping them. I wouldn't vote for a government spending my tax dollars to do it. You're wasting time on nonsensical tangents.

It's not hard. You want to suppress his ability to professionally participate in sport for expressing a belief you deem mentally harmful to children. The means are new, this canceling people's professional lives, deplatforming, is an internet phenomenon, but using think of the children as justification to suppress expression is age old. Largely it had been defeated, though the direction we are headed is not promising.

 

[Bazal]

No I wouldn't personally send them, happily or otherwise. Unless they're inciting violence I wouldn't support a law stopping them. I wouldn't vote for a government spending my tax dollars to do it. You're wasting time on nonsensical tangents.

It's not hard. You want to suppress his ability to professionally participate in sport for expressing a belief you deem mentally harmful to children. The means are new, this canceling people's professional lives, deplatforming, is an internet phenomenon, but using think of the children as justification to suppress expression is age old. Largely it had been defeated, though the direction we are headed is not promising.

But you'd support them doing so, in the interest of supporting free speech?

You ignored the others. You'd support them too, in the interest of free speech?

It's only "nonsensical" because you don't want to answer, so you're looking for avoidance.

"Think of the children" is only being used by supporters of Folau as a dismissive piece of jargon, funnily enough. Obfuscation on your part.

 

[dogslife]

I can’t remember the full list of types of people who are going to hell, but I think I qualified for a couple of those. Don’t forget you have to actually believe in heaven and hell first. If you don’t believe then apparently you will end up at some imaginary place, so why do you care? If you do then you are well aware that Israel Folau plays no roll in this decision.
The bible, from which this list comes from, was written for 1st Century Christians. It has been translated so many times from it’s original language that it’s original message meanings have been changed to suit whoever translated it and even the current English version can be interpreted by anyone to suit their own agenda. Take it all with a grain of salt if you could be bothered to read it. Amen! Shit, I hope I didn’t spoil the ending!

Who will speak up for the drunks, the adulterers and the idolaters? Because they're all going to hell too according to Izzy.

 

[SLRBRONCOS]

Lodge, Packer etc broke the law, in some pretty vicious ways too.

Israel Folau hurt people's feelings.

Yet, it's Folau who the NRL doesn't want. Work that one out.

Yes, Lodge etc did break the law and in vicious ways and I don’t support them. But you are downplaying the effects of Israel’s posts. Israel has a pattern to his behaviour, and who knows if that will continue - in my opinion, probably.

Some gay kids go through some pretty brutal mental trauma, seeing Israel’s posts - then all the talk about it at school would probably do a lot more to them than you think, and not just “hurt feelings”.

These days society seems to forget violent acts of crimes that seem to be one-offs. But open hatred isn’t truly forgotten.

 

[Bazal]

Who will speak up for the drunks, the adulterers and the idolaters? Because they're all going to hell too according to Izzy.

Well as a drunk I can tell you we wanted to speak out, but then we got drunk and forgot.

The adulterers are torn between speaking out and outing themselves as adulterers

Nobody actually understands what idolatry even is anymore because practically everything including shopping seems to be parceled up with it by Evangelistic Merkins these days

 

[Vic Mackey]

I agree BTW. And I think a lot do. Folau has the profile that some of those others don't, but myself and plenty of others express similar opinions on Lodge and Packer in game day threads. There's absolutely no way they should be playing in the NRL.

Same will go for Jayne and JDB if found guilty.

I do believe in people doing their time. I think that's a very grey area in these discussions. Manu Mau and Danny Wicks committed crimes, did their time, showed genuine remorse and never caused a single issue. Is there a way you can say a serial pest who brings the game.into disrepute without being a crook has done their time?

Haas I think is a rung or two down...worthy of a suspension but threats are very different to actions.

Fair enough

And yes i certainly agree Haas is a rung below these guys

However, if we are going to say 'it was just a threat, not an action' then can't we say the same about Folau? I mean, it was just a post, he didnt actually do anything

To me it feels like the whole Folau thing is disengenuous. They are simply pandering to a fashionable cause, they arent doing it because they genuinley care.

 

[Bazal]

Fair enough

And yes i certainly agree Haas is a rung below these guys

However, if we are going to say 'it was just a threat, not an action' then can't we say the same about Folau? I mean, it was just a post, he didnt actually do anything

To me it feels like the whole Folau thing is disengenuous. They are simply pandering to a fashionable cause, they arent doing it because they genuinley care.

Sure but then you get back to the disrepute thing. Which is more disreputable in a modern, globally connected climate? One I think reached a not insignificant global audience, the other probably won't even be reported outside two states. Plus one is a repeat offender, in Folau.

I'd have zero issues seeing Haas suspended and if he wants to enter repeat dickhead territory he can have a ban too.