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Opinion Is Ricky Stuart the most overrated coach ever?

BadnMean

Juniors
Messages
1,126
Is that the raiders premiership window closed?

There's work to do to stop the window from slamming shut.

Forwards-wise: A+. Window wide open. We are overstocked with high quality middles- we'll be leaving two or three of Sia Soliola, Ryan Sutton, Dunamis Lui, Ryan James, Corey Horsburg, Emre Guler, Siliva Havilii out of our top 17 each week in 2021. (Papali, Young, Tapine, Starling, Hodgo are the dead certainties). CHN & Whitehead two quality edges. Blooded a couple of the young edges during the injury crisis as backups.

Halves: A. Window open. Wighton & G Willy are as good a combo as any going around. Certainly capable of winning a comp. Wighton Clive Churchill winner & had a great year. G Willy hit the ground running & took to the NRL very nicely, will get even better for the experience.

Back 5: C at best. Window slipping. Ricky needs to rejuvenate here. It'll be a test of his nerve, man management, eye for talent & vision. It's a slow back 5. It's becoming an old back 5. It's losing it's only x-factor player in Cotric. There's no big recruit likely. We've bought Aekins as a backup FB & a bunch of 18 year old, large body wingers on train & trial.

CNK is good. Great defensively but just a mid tier attacking FB. You can win with him, but you'll want some strike around him.

Rapana looks old & slow. It's making his slightly lunatic defence worse as he's not athletic enough to pull off or recover from the crazy shiz his mind suggests he should try.

Toots had his worst year in FG since he was just a BYC twinkle. Looked physically overmatched but lost the acceleration he once had. Defence was awful in the semi finals (both). Unfortunately he's signed on for 4 more years & Ricky loves him. Maybe he improves & finds his old level of competence in defence & just good enough attack. If not, this will be a major, major make or break point for coach & club.

Scott... Had an awful year off the field. But the fans got a look at our 2 young centre replacements & both looked streets better than Scott & ready to play. Another crunch point for coach & club.

Simonsen/Valemi: Valemi may have just played Simonsen who was at least solid & is a bit quicker, back into favouritism for the non-Rapana wing spot. (Rapana seems likely to benefit from the Croker "good bloke" charity spot since the club just gave him 2 more years).

Timoko/Harley SMith-Shields: looked very promising in limited games. Timoko especially looked a powerful runner capable of providing the tackle busts we'll miss without Cotric.

If Ricky goes with the tried & trusted CNK, Rapana, Scott, Croker, Valemi it'll be one of the plodderest back 5s in the comp. He needs to revamp it but will he have the ruthlessness to do it. It's possible there's a secret stash of Cotric money left (or we'll move a middle along too) to make a play but we seem to have our contract spots filled...
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,339
I feel Ricky just wants backs who can make metres coming out of our own territory. Hence why he won't replace Rapana and loves guys like Valemi. He doesn't care about speed, talent or finishing.

it will be something like this next year, maybe Scott back at centre if he impresses over the pre-season

1. CNK.
2. SImonson
3. Croker
4. Rapana
5. Valemi
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,788
Ricky knew as soon as Josh went down season was over, did well.

You cannot lose such a key player and still win the lot.

Raiders will be better next year.
 

BadnMean

Juniors
Messages
1,126
I feel Ricky just wants backs who can make metres coming out of our own territory. Hence why he won't replace Rapana and loves guys like Valemi. He doesn't care about speed, talent or finishing.

it will be something like this next year, maybe Scott back at centre if he impresses over the pre-season

1. CNK.
2. SImonson
3. Croker
4. Rapana
5. Valemi

Surely you can't keep picking Rapana at centre- he's got all the bad reads of Joey, worse first up contact/stickability than Joey & one quarter of the rampant Godzillaness that Raiders Joey had...
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
61,930
If he must have wingers as extra props I can live with Jordan on the right wing

I would be a bit cranky if he keeps him in centre
 

Stephen Durrant

Juniors
Messages
28
I don't see Ricky using Raps. in centre permanently I think it was just a stop gap to cover injuries. He probably didn't want to bring in players with one or two games experience who haven't played much all year for finals football up against the best back 5 in the game Roosters then didn't want to change the team that beat the Roosters.
 

Tweed Titan

Bench
Messages
3,209
my biggest gripe on the Croker resigning is the dollar value. $600k per season.

He was never going to leave Canberra and no other nrl club would have been interested. You could have offered him minimum wage and the promise of a job at the club when he retires and he would have taken it.

Lol no way Croker is on $600k. Seriously? No centre is worth $600k let alone a shit one.
 

shear_joy9

Coach
Messages
13,555
Lol no way Croker is on $600k. Seriously? No centre is worth $600k let alone a shit one.

unfortunately he is.

excusing his performances you can understand the salary. Captain of the club and as clean skin as they come, clubs leading point and try scorer, He would struggle to make the Goulburn bulldogs team now though.
 

BadnMean

Juniors
Messages
1,126
Lol no way Croker is on $600k. Seriously? No centre is worth $600k let alone a shit one.

It's a bit high. But I think we give our "long service" dispensation to lower it. + captain duties.

A bloke at the Raiders forum did a good stats breakdown. This is Toots worst year basically since he was a teenager.

But... he still comes in top 3rd of attacking centres no matter which way you break it down, comfortably in the best 3rd of defensive centres (try caused/game, line break cause/game)

And he is in the best 3-4 goal kickers in teh comp, 80+% career & season. Usually in the top 3 pointscorers (try + goals) if not winning it year after year

There are certainly a lot worse contracts in the NRL to get in a twist about, especially considering this is an outlier poor year from his last few years and he was still- as shown- one of the better centres in the comp in any category + top drawer kicker + club captain in a prelim final team which had a horrific injury toll (by any standard)...

I mean. Yeah he got paid a bit but is it worth dancing around as a poor contract... Arguable (at worst) return this year but considering that's a poor year for Toots... I'd hold off on the torches and pitchforks just for a while.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,536
It's a bit high. But I think we give our "long service" dispensation to lower it. + captain duties.

A bloke at the Raiders forum did a good stats breakdown. This is Toots worst year basically since he was a teenager.

But... he still comes in top 3rd of attacking centres no matter which way you break it down, comfortably in the best 3rd of defensive centres (try caused/game, line break cause/game)

And he is in the best 3-4 goal kickers in teh comp, 80+% career & season. Usually in the top 3 pointscorers (try + goals) if not winning it year after year

There are certainly a lot worse contracts in the NRL to get in a twist about, especially considering this is an outlier poor year from his last few years and he was still- as shown- one of the better centres in the comp in any category + top drawer kicker + club captain in a prelim final team which had a horrific injury toll (by any standard)...

I mean. Yeah he got paid a bit but is it worth dancing around as a poor contract... Arguable (at worst) return this year but considering that's a poor year for Toots... I'd hold off on the torches and pitchforks just for a while.
Interesting stats. Do you know what the benchmark was for being classed as a centre was? As in a certain game minimum played in that position? Or does it include fill ins that may have played a game or two in the centres to cover injury? I've always thought he was under rated for a long time, but this year he looked done as a casual observer. I watched all but maybe one or two Raiders games this year, but obviously dont pay as much attention to individuals as much as I do for Penrith.
 

BadnMean

Juniors
Messages
1,126
Interesting stats. Do you know what the benchmark was for being classed as a centre was? As in a certain game minimum played in that position? Or does it include fill ins that may have played a game or two in the centres to cover injury? I've always thought he was under rated for a long time, but this year he looked done as a casual observer. I watched all but maybe one or two Raiders games this year, but obviously dont pay as much attention to individuals as much as I do for Penrith.

Yeah that did come up in the analysis. I'll just quote his post down below (poster is a moderator over at TheGreenhouse) as in the odd stat where those Cotric/Aubussons who are really a winger or 2nd rower but play a few games at centre, where they show up he gives a range, not an exact ranking.

It was a post that surprised me a bit as well- gave me a fairer perspective on what he brings (given fans say this was his stinker year).

***Croker vs other centres 2020 (this is really hard coz there are a few guys who played wing and FB above him, plus peachey and aubbo who played in the forwards, so Ive gone with a range in those):
Tries: 21st
Try assists (last pass/ kick): 7th (give or take Darius - May played other positions equally)
Try contributions (major part in try scoring play): 3rd
Try involvements (touch in try scoring play): 10th
Line Breaks: 13-15th
Line Break assists: 15-19th
Tackle Busts: waaaaaay back
Offloads: 14-17th
Run meteres: 19th-21st

Tackle Efficiency (its the only tackling stat that really matters IMO): 80% - which has has him 50th, but there seem to be even more forwards on this list than the previous ones, and also has a heap of 1 gamers. (Missed tackles: 3rd with 48, not great.)
Try causes: 25th-30th

There are 32 centres on any given weekend:
He is in the top half for most of those attacking stats. Worst season for him in regards to tries, but thats holding his own.

His tackle efficiency is poor, BUT, he is at the bottom of those 32 for try causes, meaning his 'misses' aren't leading to points. I've made this comment a few times about Hodgo and Croker, but while their 1st up contact isn't always good, more often than not, they slow said player down for help to arrive.

As previously mentioned, his GKing is invaluable.

I think this is probably his worst season to date, but Id still call that holding his own. I mean, we still made a prelim.***

 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,536
Yeah that did come up in the analysis. I'll just quote his post down below (poster is a moderator over at TheGreenhouse) as in the odd stat where those Cotric/Aubussons who are really a winger or 2nd rower but play a few games at centre, where they show up he gives a range, not an exact ranking.

It was a post that surprised me a bit as well- gave me a fairer perspective on what he brings (given fans say this was his stinker year).

***Croker vs other centres 2020 (this is really hard coz there are a few guys who played wing and FB above him, plus peachey and aubbo who played in the forwards, so Ive gone with a range in those):
Tries: 21st
Try assists (last pass/ kick): 7th (give or take Darius - May played other positions equally)
Try contributions (major part in try scoring play): 3rd
Try involvements (touch in try scoring play): 10th
Line Breaks: 13-15th
Line Break assists: 15-19th
Tackle Busts: waaaaaay back
Offloads: 14-17th
Run meteres: 19th-21st

Tackle Efficiency (its the only tackling stat that really matters IMO): 80% - which has has him 50th, but there seem to be even more forwards on this list than the previous ones, and also has a heap of 1 gamers. (Missed tackles: 3rd with 48, not great.)
Try causes: 25th-30th

There are 32 centres on any given weekend:
He is in the top half for most of those attacking stats. Worst season for him in regards to tries, but thats holding his own.

His tackle efficiency is poor, BUT, he is at the bottom of those 32 for try causes, meaning his 'misses' aren't leading to points. I've made this comment a few times about Hodgo and Croker, but while their 1st up contact isn't always good, more often than not, they slow said player down for help to arrive.

As previously mentioned, his GKing is invaluable.

I think this is probably his worst season to date, but Id still call that holding his own. I mean, we still made a prelim.***
Thanks for taking the time to find it & post it here. For his worst year in the top grade it shows things could be far worse. The issue now is if the downward spiral continues.
 

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