Player Depth

[Perth Red]

So always a contentious one, is there enough players to expand? Leaving aside that better player development pathways would undoubtedly mean yes, how about a team that could kick off next year from players that either cant make first team at moment or injuries or form has seen them promoted this year them promoted, or players outside of NRL. Just a question of money/salary cap dispensation and could happen:

For the Pirates

1. Adam Quinlan (SL) (WA jnr)
2. Ryan Hall (SL)
3. Curtis Rona (Union) (WA Jnr)
4. Waqa Blake (reserve grade) (WA jnr)
5. Koroibete (Union)
6. Gareth Widdop (SL)
7. Sam Walker (wouldnt be in first grade except for injury)
8. Korbin Sims (SL)
9. Brandon Smith (cant get starting 9)
10. Alex Walmsley (SL)
11. John Bateman (SL must have realized what a mistake going back to England was lol)
12. Liam Farrell (SL)
13. Joseph Tapine (WA Jnr)
Coach Tony Smith (SL)

Strong Uk representation would help get the ex pat UK RL fans in WA on board.
Only players really being poached that would potentially weaken another club would be Tapine and Walker longer term

How would that side go? Maybe 8th?

 

[jim_57]

I said similar in another thread but the Pacific Islands are still severely underrepresented in the top level, in particular PNG. We have a country of around 8 million with Rugby League as the main sport and all we have to show for it at the top level is Justin Olam running around for the Storm.

I'd have to imagine PNG junior RL numbers compare to NSW, QLD or NZ or close to it. Putting a system in place to get the best of these juniors identified and in development systems early would be a pretty good first step. Creating actual pathways, not just handpicking older players from the Hunters occasionally.

 

[Perth Red]

I said similar in another thread but the Pacific Islands are still severely underrepresented in the top level, in particular PNG. We have a country if around 8 million with Rugby League as the main sport and all we have to show for it at the top level is Justin Olam running around for the Storm.

I'd have to imagine PNG junior RL numbers to compare to NSW, QLD or NZ or close to it. Putting a system in place to get the best of these juniors identified and in a development systems early would be a pretty good first step. Creating actual pathways, not just handpicking older players from the Hunters occasionally.

mentioned this on the other thread. You could solve the lack of jnrs in WA overnight by spending $1mill a year to create a Pirates elite academy set up in Port Moresby!

 

[Spanner in the works]

Player depth is fine - from 25 million people I'm sure we could find 60 players or so for a couple of teams. Two additional teams does mean a slight thinning of absolute superstars from some teams (better salary on offer), but it also means a massive influx of broadcast dollars. If we want to grow the game - to increase our footprint and better support local clubs - we need to maximise our broadcast dollars and catalyse additional sponsors. Expanding might set back quality for a couple of years, bit longer term it's a good thing for the game.

 

[MugaB]

mentioned this on the other thread. You could solve the lack of jnrs in WA overnight by spending $1mill a year to create a Pirates elite academy set up in Port Moresby!

Might as well just admit P.N.G/Cairns then, if you're wanting to grow Perth as a viable RL area, then you should be investing in an acedemy in WA, not one based in PNG, i have no issue with perth unearthing talent from where ever, but it needs to be in your backyard.
I've said this before, for perth to get a licence, the pirates have to be somewhat competitive in S.G.Ball.
PNG Hunters are miles ahead of WA, forget about crowds, stadiums, and TV time zones, and marketing. Coz if you don't have a solid base winning at lower levels or at least being competetive against the rest of the S.G ball teams, then NRL giving a licence to Perth will just become a wooden spoon club, i get that we need to start soon, and i want to see WA flourish in someway, like the Reds did, but if the Pirates don't improve in the next 2-3 seasons, then they won't get another license ahead of other areas, which is a shame.

 

[Perth Red]

Might as well just admit P.N.G/Cairns then, if you're wanting to grow Perth as a viable RL area, then you should be investing in an acedemy in WA, not one based in PNG, i have no issue with perth unearthing talent from where ever, but it needs to be in your backyard.
I've said this before, for perth to get a licence, the pirates have to be somewhat competitive in S.G.Ball.
PNG Hunters are miles ahead of WA, forget about crowds, stadiums, and TV time zones, and marketing. Coz if you don't have a solid base winning at lower levels or at least being competetive against the rest of the S.G ball teams, then NRL giving a licence to Perth will just become a wooden spoon club, i get that we need to start soon, and i want to see WA flourish in someway, like the Reds did, but if the Pirates don't improve in the next 2-3 seasons, then they won't get another license ahead of other areas, which is a shame.

we’ve got one, and had it for a number of years now. reality is there are only so many kids playing the game here so the cream is quite thin. Such is life in an AFL state when the nrl refuses to invest serious money growing the game. SG ball is arguably the toughest U18 comp in the world, it’s quite an achievement for us to even be in it and producing nrl players given the resources the NRLWA has!

 

[MugaB]

we’ve got one, and had it for a number of years now. reality is there are only so many kids playing the game here so the cream is quite thin. Such is life in an AFL state when the nrl refuses to invest serious money growing the game. SG ball is arguably the toughest U18 comp in the world, it’s quite an achievement for us to even be in it and producing nrl players given the resources the NRLWA has!

Not sure why the bid folk aren't throwing money at it then, relying solely on NRLWA seems a bit limiting, when there's a few rich business types complaining about not being in the conversation about the 18th licence, but then seem to not care about the current pirate's SG.ball team, like I've been saying if that young team starts to kick serious arse in that comp, the NRL will see it as potential, otherwise they are looking at where they can expand where the junior base is already competitive, it's the sole reason NZ2 is being floated ahead of anything else, over 40% of junior RL players are stemming from NZ and the Pacific, and as far as creating a team, the fact that Melbourne storm exist proves that if the ARLC or governing body want a team in a certain town or city, they'll just do it. Expect Auckland 2

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

I've got no doubt the depth of talent to cater for 18 teams, even 20 teams, is out there. It just need to be cultivated and grown with appropriate pathways to the NRL arena.

As Penrith have shown - if you grow and nuture your farmland, you can grow talent. Not just in your "local area" but beyond it..

Country/Regional Australia is another area that needs to be explored.

The Panthers established an "leagues club" in Bathurst years ago and more than take a game to Bathurst each year, they committed to a strategy for coaching clinics, supporting regions such as Wellington, Parkes Orange etc etc... out of that players like Staines, Burton, Yeo, Naden etc have come through. And while some may have made it to NRL anyway, many wouldn't without initiatives such as the Panthers made.

Regional NSW/Qld are also "heartland" areas of Rugby League yet however the only thing we regularly hear about reguions is that "footy is dying in the bush"...

Taking the odd NRL game there might be a great community event, good for PR and a day out for the locals... but to really to a service to bush footy there's more needed like what the Panthers are doing by clubs. I have no idea what other NSW/Qld clubs are doing in a similar manner but I'd suggest more/all clubs shold have a similar strategy - not just in their own patch...

As for expansion clubs.... for potentials like Perth, Adelaide etc, any of these proposals should have both an effective recruitment and pathways strategy. The Pacific Islands and PNG would be potentials although of course the sheer distance/costs etc between the areas needs to be overcome - wouldn't be as easy as Penrith going 3hrs west etc.

Dare I say - a junior "draft" system may help support pathways from these areas to expansion clubs..

Eg the NRL "Drive" the player development and pathways in the Pacific & PNG, and there's a draft for players out of these areas for NRL clubs - but priority is give to expansion teams.

Eg Perth/Adelaide in their first 5 seasons get the first 5 picks each of players out of the Pacific/PNG. Then NRL clubs (finishing from worst to first) get a pick each...

Would need refining but an expansion club needs to have both a strong recruitment and player development/pathways strategy. Something like this could tick one of these boxes.

 

[Pippen94]

Player depth argument is just excuse existing clubs use to prevent expansion

 

[MugaB]

Player depth argument is just excuse existing clubs use to prevent expansion

Correct, there is plenty of 1st grade talent, often there's too much, but its always at a few club's, all sitting behind each others way, Matt Burton is the perfect example, he isn't getting more 1st grade games in the halves when Cleary/Luai are both fit, Nico Hynes is another, stuck behind Papenhauzen, even Papenhauzen was 3rd string at tigers, and again 3rd string at Melbourne before getting his chance at 1st grade success.
There is talent out there, but either not enough good scouts or good coaches picking them, prime example is the warriors new fullback, Reece Walsh, now HOW THE FÜCK ARE YOU THE BRONCOS and let him go. same as the cowboys with Kayln Ponga, Villiame Kikau and Brandon Smith..
The big one for me is Jerome Hughes.
This guy has come from Wellington, played lower grades at Titans, Cows, Roosters, Blackhawks, finally gets a contract at Storm, instant fullback turned Halfback... Fück me, basically a proven winner at last year GF.
There's talent, enough for 4 more teams.... its about the clubs management of finding it and cultivating it....
Or just go to market and buy Joey Leilua FFS!!!

 

[Perth Red]

I've got no doubt the depth of talent to cater for 18 teams, even 20 teams, is out there. It just need to be cultivated and grown with appropriate pathways to the NRL arena.

As Penrith have shown - if you grow and nuture your farmland, you can grow talent. Not just in your "local area" but beyond it..

Country/Regional Australia is another area that needs to be explored.

The Panthers established an "leagues club" in Bathurst years ago and more than take a game to Bathurst each year, they committed to a strategy for coaching clinics, supporting regions such as Wellington, Parkes Orange etc etc... out of that players like Staines, Burton, Yeo, Naden etc have come through. And while some may have made it to NRL anyway, many wouldn't without initiatives such as the Panthers made.

Regional NSW/Qld are also "heartland" areas of Rugby League yet however the only thing we regularly hear about reguions is that "footy is dying in the bush"...

Taking the odd NRL game there might be a great community event, good for PR and a day out for the locals... but to really to a service to bush footy there's more needed like what the Panthers are doing by clubs. I have no idea what other NSW/Qld clubs are doing in a similar manner but I'd suggest more/all clubs shold have a similar strategy - not just in their own patch...

As for expansion clubs.... for potentials like Perth, Adelaide etc, any of these proposals should have both an effective recruitment and pathways strategy. The Pacific Islands and PNG would be potentials although of course the sheer distance/costs etc between the areas needs to be overcome - wouldn't be as easy as Penrith going 3hrs west etc.

Dare I say - a junior "draft" system may help support pathways from these areas to expansion clubs..

Eg the NRL "Drive" the player development and pathways in the Pacific & PNG, and there's a draft for players out of these areas for NRL clubs - but priority is give to expansion teams.

Eg Perth/Adelaide in their first 5 seasons get the first 5 picks each of players out of the Pacific/PNG. Then NRL clubs (finishing from worst to first) get a pick each...

Would need refining but an expansion club needs to have both a strong recruitment and player development/pathways strategy. Something like this could tick one of these boxes.

Should it be the clubs responsibility though? or should it be NSWRL responsibility to have these academies and set ups in every regional area? Problem with expecting clubs to do it is A) cost to the clubs which means that in lean times the clubs pull the pin B) A sense of entitlement to players that develop in that system (the old poaching our Jnr debate) getting in the way of a draft system that would benefit the League enormously C) You still end up with masses of country areas not supported at all. Its all well and good if you have a massive pokie empire that can throw a million $'s a year at it but how many clubs are now in that financial position?

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Should it be the clubs responsibility though? or should it be NSWRL responsibility to have these academies and set ups in every regional area? Problem with expecting clubs to do it is A) cost to the clubs which means that in lean times the clubs pull the pin B) A sense of entitlement to players that develop in that system (the old poaching our Jnr debate) getting in the way of a draft system that would benefit the League enormously C) You still end up with masses of country areas not supported at all. Its all well and good if you have a massive pokie empire that can throw a million $'s a year at it but how many clubs are now in that financial position?

I don't have an issue with the clubs doing it - they are the ones that will pull the most gravitas when is comes to engaging the community..

IE - Are kids from Orange, Dubbo etc going to come to a rugby league clinic hosted by the NSWRL, or by the Penrith Panthers....

The Panthers would win that hands-down... so for mine, while it can be debated as to who should run it from an over-arching perspective - to me it's the clubs who will get the most pull.

And so if you're going to do something similar in Wagga Wagga - which has produced so much sporting talent in many sports - who's best to make it work? In order to increase participation and provide a pathway to the NRL- Do you get the NSWRL to run that or get the Canberra Raiders to take it on??

Again to me - the Raiders are the ones that should take the ball up here - as the community will be more attracted to them than the "faceless" NSWRL.

Kids wanna see NRL stars... not some nobodies in blue polo shirts... And the Kids are where the future lies in the NRL. The AFL see it - and are already all over it in a lot of NSW.....

I honestly think that there are too many rugbly league associations (eg CRL, NSWRL, NRL, ARLC), all with their own key responsibilities, but that don't align into each other. And a big reason why league is "dying in the bush"...

Penrith took the initiative here - and it's paying off. They have a pathways system which is now almost unrivalled in the NRL. And the regional areas they have adopted as their own are "re-engaging" with rugby league in terms of participation. It's a winner for mine.

 

[Perth Red]

For me the NSWRL would fund and run them and be responsible overall but they could draw on the NRl clubs star power to give it some umph. That should be part of the club agreement and what they are getting $3mill for above salary cap. Yes Penrith have done a great job, but they have a $120million a year pokie empire to draw on to fund it. Where are Sharks, for example, going to fund a country academy from? And what abput thw tregions with no obvious NRL club connections? End of day Panthers players probably go to their region a couple of time a year, they arent there every week running academy training.

 

[MugaB]

For me the NSWRL would fund and run them and be responsible overall but they could draw on the NRl clubs star power to give it some umph. That should be part of the club agreement and what they are getting $3mill for above salary cap. Yes Penrith have done a great job, but they have a $120million a year pokie empire to draw on to fund it. Where are Sharks, for example, going to fund a country academy from? And what abput thw tregions with no obvious NRL club connections? End of day Panthers players probably go to their region a couple of time a year, they arent there every week running academy training.

This is not a working theory, if you want NRL clubs to have their own depth they have to go out and get it, relying on a state body to build your talent for you is lazy, if you're competitive you'll take the initiative to do it yourself, i hope the other clubs follow suit, because if we get to have 16 Penrith style acedemies/pathways, we will see a rapid rise in tv ratings and expansion, as everyone who has a team will be tuning in to watch them properly compete

 

[Perth Red]

This is not a working theory, if you want NRL clubs to have their own depth they have to go out and get it, relying on a state body to build your talent for you is lazy, if you're competitive you'll take the initiative to do it yourself, i hope the other clubs follow suit, because if we get to have 16 Penrith style acedemies/pathways, we will see a rapid rise in tv ratings and expansion, as everyone who has a team will be tuning in to watch them properly compete

Relying on broke arse clubs to fund regional grassroots ongoing is lunacy.

 

[Pippen94]

Relying on broke arse clubs to fund regional grassroots ongoing is lunacy.

Perth will create new players in afl territory just like Melbourne Storm has... Lol

 

[MugaB]

Relying on broke arse clubs to fund regional grassroots ongoing is lunacy.

Im not suggesting they fund grassroots, i am suggesting that an acedemy should be set up and run under each NRL team. These clubs are going to provide proper talent instead of constantly poaching from each other till theres nothing left, where as each club having their own NYC teams playing out of their own acedemy is the best way for the NRL

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Might as well just admit P.N.G/Cairns then, if you're wanting to grow Perth as a viable RL area, then you should be investing in an acedemy in WA, not one based in PNG, i have no issue with perth unearthing talent from where ever, but it needs to be in your backyard.
I've said this before, for perth to get a licence, the pirates have to be somewhat competitive in S.G.Ball.
PNG Hunters are miles ahead of WA, forget about crowds, stadiums, and TV time zones, and marketing. Coz if you don't have a solid base winning at lower levels or at least being competetive against the rest of the S.G ball teams, then NRL giving a licence to Perth will just become a wooden spoon club, i get that we need to start soon, and i want to see WA flourish in someway, like the Reds did, but if the Pirates don't improve in the next 2-3 seasons, then they won't get another license ahead of other areas, which is a shame.

How many major sports leagues around the world run teams from juniors through to an open age mens team in a national competition?

 

[Perth Red]

Perth will create new players in afl territory just like Melbourne Storm has... Lol

We already have.

 

[Perth Red]

How many major sports leagues around the world run teams from juniors through to an open age mens team in a national competition?

They dont. We should have state bodies ensuring the game is thriving at jnr level then at 16 we should have NRL scouting systems that are cherry picking the very best 16 year old boys and girls and offering them an elite pathway development. That is where the clubs should come in at 16 to offer those pathways, and where there arent clubs like in Perth then the state league continues to be responsible. Sure NRL players can add star value by visiting schools and jnr clubs to give some profile to the game but NRL clubs shouldnt be worrying about U12's. they have enough on their plates trying to run a viable professional sports business!

WA has set up a system over last few years where we have an elite academy for 16's this then feeds into SG Ball. From an earlier age the best kids from their Jnr clubs are picked for regular regional rep clubs who play each other at a higher standard and get access to better and more comprehensive coaching etc. Considering how few kids play the game here we have developed 4 or 5 NRL first teamers in last few years so it seems to be having some success.