This time last year, Phil Gould was right… like him or loathe him..

[TruSaint]

I know alot are saying top 8 minimum next year otherwise Hook gets the bullet. For me, if we fall say 1 game short and can see real progress, with fewer dropped balls, 6 agains, and better defense, and a real sense that the club is progressing then I would be happy to keep him on. If he is still there in 2023 and we don't make semis, then he would have had 3 years and time to give someone else a go.

Have a look at the top 8 today.
Team 8 has won 10 and lost 13.
Top 8 is no longer an achievement if we are to be fair dinkum. Its a min pass mark.

Accepting any else, irrespective of the coach, is further entrenching our Club into mediocrity.
I really dont care about other Clubs. We should aim to play finals footy year in year out.

It was the old " wait and see " attitude that led to us to where we are today. The Club needs to make hard calls on players and staff. The game has changed, and the gap between the good and poor is much greater.

 

[Lethal25]

So if it's a choice, I'll loathe Phil Gould

He's in the media and is paid to offer opinion, he gives opinion on a multitude of things. Some will turn out to be right and some will be wrong. Either way I really don't give a rats arse what Gould thinks in this space, I don't see Phil as the beacon of what's good about the game.

Back to the crux of the issue, have we moved forward as a club/team? I see a club who is genuinely looking to improve. Difficult choices have been made such as not resigning Dufty, some choices easier like Norman. Webb is communicating with supporters in what feels like a very open fashion much like the new coach. McGregor days of laying blame at everyone elses feet are gone, and I for one feel so much more comfortable listening to Griffin after a loss than the dribble McGregor rolled out.

In this instance I believe Gould is wrong

 

[Trifili13]

In an ideal world it would be great to be top 4 every year with a real shot at winning the comp. Ponder this, from what we have seen so far, guys like Sloan, Sullivan and Amone appear to have the goods to play 1st grade. However, they are still raw and as they play more games, the better coaches will work out any flaws they have so might not end up as good as we hope they will be. Second year syndrome hits many players in all sports. Do you then blame Hook and not renew him if they don't turn out as we would like and don't make the 8 but there is improvement in other areas?

Holbrook has been at the GC for a couple of years and signed some big names this year. They have progessed as a club/team IMO but big chance they will miss the 8. Do you sack him?

 

[Unsainty79]

Well, Mary did need to go. After 7 years, multiple disappointment's and injuries railroading some of our finals cracks, at some point you get knocked down and it's hard to come back with a clear mind. In my opinion, they should've gotten rid of Mary after 2018 and started a-fresh.

It's important to remember that Gould clearly dislikes Griffin; although, it is true that we have not improved in terms of our results. Griffin probably hasn't helped himself either with his peculiar team selections, I.e. Bird at 1 & Norman's ongoing selections & our second half collapses.

Clearly Griffin needs another year and maybe a third given that he is blooding some young players. If he gets Sloan, Amone, Sullivan, Feagai and potentially Coric regularly playing, it stands to reason, given their age that we may have another up and down year; however, it's probably acceptable (provided we there is some improvement) if we're investing in these players to be our long term spine. Next year Griffin will also be judged on some of his signings, too.

A pack of De Belin, Molo, Su'a, Sims, Bird, McGuire, Lawrie & Burgess is pretty strong. Combine the pack with an in-form Hunt, Lomax and two gun young kids in Amone and Sloan, it's not a half bad squad.

We might not have the best 17 in the comp, but next year we will have depth and that's probably equally as important in the new game of constant suspensions and injures. The lack of depth has hamstrung us for years.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

I know alot are saying top 8 minimum next year otherwise Hook gets the bullet. For me, if we fall say 1 game short and can see real progress, with fewer dropped balls, 6 agains, and better defense, and a real sense that the club is progressing then I would be happy to keep him on. If he is still there in 2023 and we don't make semis, then he would have had 3 years and time to give someone else a go.

Crystal ball out next year, looking at other teams / "our competition"...

The Top 6 would appear to remain again - as they did last year... (aside from any disastrous injury tolls - but the Roosters proved even this can be weathered). I can't see any of these falling out.

Storm
Panthers
Rabbits
Roosters
Eels
Sea Eagles.

So that leaves 10 positions from 7-16.

Of the current teams here based on the 2nd half of this season and movements next year. Are they "on the up", staying as is "neutral", or on the decline "down"....

Knights - UP (won last 5 games). Finally getting their act together. No real signings / losses of note, maybe Gagai/Watson movements. May depend on what happens to Pearce.

Sharks - UP (won 2 of last 5), have signed Fitzgibbon, Hynes, Finucane, McInnes. Hard to see anything but further improvement from them.

Raiders - UP. After the worst start to their season they came home better, although flogged by the Roosters. Williams Saga hurt them amongst an enormous injury toll.

Titans - NEUTRAL. Improvement on season 2020 with players. They rattled home last year to get 9th. Currently 10th. Another season with their team ("new" signings etc) together could see them improve.

Warriors - NEUTRAL. The nomads of the NRL. Hard to say how anything will pan out for them while Covid lingers.

Tigers - DOWN. Perennial "almost there" - they've fallen in a heap for most of this year. Hastings signed for next year may help but can't expect miracles from him.

Cowboys - NEUTRAL. Despite a surge mid season they've dropped again. Deardon, Hiku, Townsend will help... but how much...

Broncos - UP. They couldn't go down any further.... but they have improved in the back end of 2021. Have signed Reynolds, Capewell, Lee, Jensen. Reynolds is the real win. Losses are significant but necessary. Another season under the belt of the younger players will help. They could be big movers..

Bulldogs - UP. Again, couldn't go any lower. But they've signed Addo Carr, Burton, Pangai Jr, Naden, and our two cast-offs in Vaughan and Dufty. They've also got Gould - who amongst other things has worked with Barrett. It may not be celebrations next year, but the year after should see them back in the thick of it again.

So where does that leave the Dragons???

I think we are Neutral, potentially Down. Down based on results in the back half of the year, but some positives in the players we've kicked out/replaced.

And so - given the top 6 is locked in.... 2 spots left in the 8.....

The Sharks, Knights, Raiders, are on the UP..... that takes the top 9...

The Bulldogs and Broncos will improve....

It could be a replica of this seasons' ladder. I see it like...

1-6 (any order)
Storm
Panthers
Rabbitohs
Rosters
Eels
Sea Eagles

7-9 (any order)
Knights
Raiders
Sharks

10-15 (any order)
Warriors
Cowboys
Titans
Dragons
Broncos
Bulldogs

16
Tigers.

 

[Old Timer]

You don't have to be Phil Gould to understand what is going wrong at our club and just like Phil Gould there is nothing we can do to fix it.

It shits me to tears for all the media heads to be nodding wisely while the "great Gus" does little more than speak the blatantly obvious as if it is some saintly advice given from gods on high.

So f**k Gould and all his observations about the obvious and lets look at his real achievements in recent years and what legacy that creates for him.

He is always looking for somewhere to rest his hat as the "guru" but as soon as it looks like turning to shit he is off and running and now it is to the Dogs in a situation he has helped manipulate with his advice to Barrett re taking the head coaching job there.

A complete opportunist if ever there was one.

 

[Slackboy72]

I know alot are saying top 8 minimum next year otherwise Hook gets the bullet. For me, if we fall say 1 game short and can see real progress, with fewer dropped balls, 6 agains, and better defense, and a real sense that the club is progressing then I would be happy to keep him on. If he is still there in 2023 and we don't make semis, then he would have had 3 years and time to give someone else a go.

I think we're closer to our first spoon than the 8.

 

[Pomoz]

I

You don't have to be Phil Gould to understand what is going wrong at our club and just like Phil Gould there is nothing we can do to fix it.

It shits me to tears for all the media heads to be nodding wisely while the "great Gus" does little more than speak the blatantly obvious as if it is some saintly advice given from gods on high.

So f**k Gould and all his observations about the obvious and lets look at his real achievements in recent years and what legacy that creates for him.

He is always looking for somewhere to rest his hat as the "guru" but as soon as it looks like turning to shit he is off and running and now it is to the Dogs in a situation he has helped manipulate with his advice to Barrett re taking the head coaching job there.

A complete opportunist if ever there was one.

I get you don’t rate him but his list of achievements are impressive. Whether it’s as a coach or as an administrator, he creates successful teams. His commentating style means he is like vegimite, you either love him or hate him. I find his grumpy old man comments a bit grating, but his SOO speeches I think are inspirational.

Forget his rants on referees and the judiciary which are labored and tedious, if you want to understand him bettter you need to listen to his podcasts when he talks about junior development and players. He has a quite brilliant strategic mind and understanding of how to build players. What clearly comes through when he talks about these subjects is his love of the players and the games ability to shape and build worthy, capable young men.

Flawed? Yes, but aren’t we all.
Brilliant? Yes, I think his achievements point to the fact he is an exceptional coach and administrator.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

I

I get you don’t rate him but his list of achievements are impressive. Whether it’s as a coach or as an administrator, he creates successful teams. His commentating style means he is like vegimite, you either love him or hate him. I find his grumpy old man comments a bit grating, but his SOO speeches I think are inspirational.

Forget his rants on referees and the judiciary which are labored and tedious, if you want to understand him bettter you need to listen to his podcasts when he talks about junior development and players. He has a quite brilliant strategic mind and understanding of how to build players. What clearly comes through when he talks about these subjects is his love of the players and the games ability to shape and build worthy, capable young men.

Flawed? Yes, but aren’t we all.
Brilliant? Yes, I think his achievements point to the fact he is an exceptional coach and administrator.

Good post.

Personally I like Gould, don’t always agree with him but like him. Really like his podcast and his efforts on twitter to engage the fans. But more so I respect him. I loathe the majority of Fox journos and commentators - where it’s all too often manufactured and about them seeking attention - which stands to reason as their career is based on getting clicks.

I actually think to myself that many posters on LU who bag guys like Gould, Kent are not really that different to them in terms of carry-on… expressing negative opinions etc…

I don’t exclude myself from this, primarily at the dragons club this year and overall quality of rugby league this year - a big gripe of mine. However I, and others here, aren’t paid professionals in the rugby league media. Our influence is minimal if anything, theirs can shape the views of a greater public and the sport itself… and Fox / News Ltd have global form in this..

 

[randomdragon]

for next year I can see manly and parra dropping steeply, if penrith don't make the GF this year I can see them dropping too, even Melbourne and souths have taken their hits this year, I think next year is even more open than any. I guess the charity shield will be telling! can't wait already

 

[BBTB]

Well thought out post

Very down to earth......Great post.......

 

[Adolf_Spritzer]

for next year I can see manly and parra dropping steeply, if penrith don't make the GF this year I can see them dropping too, even Melbourne and souths have taken their hits this year, I think next year is even more open than any. I guess the charity shield will be telling! can't wait already

South's for sure, they're going to miss Reynolds more than Bennett

 

[TruSaint]

South's for sure, they're going to miss Reynolds more than Bennett

Massive loss.

He is their backbone. Jason has a job on his hands.

Mel and Pen will still be competitive, but Penriths window is getting smaller. An injury to Cleary, and they come back to the field.

 

[Adolf_Spritzer]

Massive loss.

He is their backbone. Jason has a job on his hands.

Mel and Pen will still be competitive, but Penriths window is getting smaller. An injury to Cleary, and they come back to the field.

I'll be interested to see how they bounce back after last week. If they drop out they'll take up our old mantle the dreaded choker tag

 

[epDragon62]

I'll be interested to see how they bounce back after last week. If they drop out they'll take up our old mantle the dreaded choker tag

Thanks for that reminder as I have a Bunny nemisis who I will absolutely hammer with the Chokers tag

 

[OneEyedDragon]

Thanks for that reminder as I have a Bunny nemisis who I will absolutely hammer with the Chokers tag

I don't care what other team it is, I will happily pass the "chokers" title on to anyone! Paul Kent was tentatively tossing the title on to Penrith at one point. I guess their win last weekend saved them for a little while.

 

[Adolf_Spritzer]

Was actually talking about Penrith in that instance, but like everyone else I'll be happy to lose that tag regardless of who inherits it.

Alas, I almost miss the days when we were at least in a position to 'choke'

 

[TruSaint]

Was actually talking about Penrith in that instance, but like everyone else I'll be happy to lose that tag regardless of who inherits it.

Alas, I almost miss the days when we were at least in a position to 'choke'

Sadly, very true.
Would gladly play in a prelim or God forbid a GF.

 

[CronullaSaint]

back on topic. The review by Phil Gould resulted in Ben Hornby being let go & Mary & Dean young being retained.
I think Ben Hornby was not the problem & as an assistant at least he was better than the other 2. A lot of the mess we are in now is from the actions taken after the review. I don't know if that is what it recommended, but nothing positive came from it.

 

[BBTB]

back on topic. The review by Phil Gould resulted in Ben Hornby being let go & Mary & Dean young being retained.
I think Ben Hornby was not the problem & as an assistant at least he was better than the other 2. A lot of the mess we are in now is from the actions taken after the review. I don't know if that is what it recommended, but nothing positive came from it.

What a bullsh....t,scam that was.Put in place by our dysfunctional "Board". They must think, we as fans, are total morons...The Stgeorge/ill Board, are out of touch with their members & Fans. The sooner we can eliminate these f**kn parasites, the better.