How Quickly Brisbane Forgets

[Misty Bee]

I am talking about how the state government recognise and structures city boundaries. Parramatta is emersed in the greater Sydney region, Logan is to the south of Brisbane and is only recognised as part of Sydney when counting statistics .

So how is a council boundary different in QLD compared to NSW? Parramatta City Council, unlike Logan City COuncil, doesn't have a common boundary with the city in question. Parramatta borders Baulkham Hills Shire, Hornsby Shire, Ryde City, Auburn municipal, Bankstown City, Fairfield City, Holroyd City and Blacktown City.

Parramatta is also part of the Western Sydney region, and is a member of the Western Sydney Region of Councils (WSROC).

If you are going by historical development, Parramatta's history shits on the handful of loggers camps that was Logan. Parramatta was founded in 1788 - a day's ride from Sydney Town. Parramatta had administrative buildings before Sydney, and as such was Australia's first place of government. It survived about 170 years before it joined with the urban sprawl of Sydney.

So if Logan isn't part of the Brisbane metropolitan area, Parra isn't part of Sydney's!

No difference, bud!

 

[Chapsta]

The only problem is, Misty Bee, the people of Parramatta consider themselves a part of Sydney, the people of Logan consider themselves separate from Brisbane. No generalizations here, it's a fact. Check. Mate.

 

[Misty Bee]

The only problem is, Misty Bee, the people of Parramatta consider themselves a part of Sydney, the people of Logan consider themselves separate from Brisbane. No generalizations here, it's a fact. Check. Mate.

The people of Parramatta consider themselves part of western Sydney.

Besides, where you think you are can be different to where you actually are. That's why GPS was invented.

All the factual evidence about Logan and Parramatta suggest they have the same relationship to the city they are attached to.

If Logan was seperate from Brisbane, the urban area would be called "Brisbane-Logan", as in "Albury-Wodonga" and "Harden-Murrumburrah".

 

[Brycey]

So how is a council boundary different in QLD compared to NSW? Parramatta City Council, unlike Logan City COuncil, doesn't have a common boundary with the city in question. Parramatta borders Baulkham Hills Shire, Hornsby Shire, Ryde City, Auburn municipal, Bankstown City, Fairfield City, Holroyd City and Blacktown City.

Parramatta is also part of the Western Sydney region, and is a member of the Western Sydney Region of Councils (WSROC).

If you are going by historical development, Parramatta's history shits on the handful of loggers camps that was Logan. Parramatta was founded in 1788 - a day's ride from Sydney Town. Parramatta had administrative buildings before Sydney, and as such was Australia's first place of government. It survived about 170 years before it joined with the urban sprawl of Sydney.

So if Logan isn't part of the Brisbane metropolitan area, Parra isn't part of Sydney's!

No difference, bud!

There is difference, you're comparing apples and oranges. Just because it is considered one way in NSW it does not mean its considered the way in QLD. Brisbane Metropolitan area is the Brisbane City Council area, it is the biggest council in Australia because it covers all of Brisbane.

Such a structure is unheard of in Sydney, its all divided into separate councils. Just because it applies to NSW does not mean it applies in QLD. Brisbane City council is huge, why...because it covers Brisbane metro area.
Its like saying CC is apart of Sydney, its not. Logan is apart of the SEQLD region, an official region which has delegates from mayors of all the SEQLD region.

Apples and oranges. NSW does not write the universal law on metropolitan boundaries.

 

[Loudstrat]

LOL. A council boundary is a council boundary, whether it's in NSW, QLD or any other state. Check the constitution - that sets out the two lower tiers of govt in each state.

You have given no difference between council areas. Logan is part of the Brisbane metro area. Same as Parramatta is part of Sydney. No difference.

In fact, there is more definition in Sydney. The Broncos represent Logan. No f**king way the Roosters represent Parramatta.

Logan never governed over Brisbane like Parramatta once governed over Sydney.

Logan borders brisbane - there are no physical barriers to define the areas, apart from the line on a map. Parramatta doesn't border Sydney.

 

[Brownie.Kougari]

LOL. A council boundary is a council boundary, whether it's in NSW, QLD or any other state. Check the constitution - that sets out the two lower tiers of govt in each state.

You have given no difference between council areas. Logan is part of the Brisbane metro area. Same as Parramatta is part of Sydney. No difference.

In fact, there is more definition in Sydney. The Broncos represent Logan. No f**king way the Roosters represent Parramatta.

Logan never governed over Brisbane like Parramatta once governed over Sydney.

Logan borders brisbane - there are no physical barriers to define the areas, apart from the line on a map. Parramatta doesn't border Sydney.

There's also no physical barriers between Logan and the GC.

If:
Brissy = Sydney
and
GC = Newcastle
then
Logan = Central Coast

 

[Loudstrat]

Except that there is heaps of undeveloped land between Logan and the Gold Coast.

None exists between Brisbane and Logan

 

[Chapsta]

^ Wont take too long for that land to be developed. Green buffer? Unlikely.

 

[Chapsta]

If your arguments are that Logan is Brisbane, does that make Tweed Heads part of the Gold Coast???

There's no barrier between these two cities. Tweed Heads is "geared" towards the Gold Coast (by your definitions anyway) etc.

 

[t-ba]

They're counted as a single urban area for ABS purposes. It's also hard to argue since if you didn't actually know it was a state border you'd still think you were in Cooloongatta.

Are Jersey City and Bridgeport not part of Greater New York because of state boundaries?

 

[Loudstrat]

If your arguments are that Logan is Brisbane, does that make Tweed Heads part of the Gold Coast???

There's no barrier between these two cities. Tweed Heads is "geared" towards the Gold Coast (by your definitions anyway) etc.

The border region is referred to as Gold Coast-Tweed for purposes relating to the urban area.

However, different councils, different states.

This differs from Brisbane and suburbs like Logan, where major infrastructure projects, such as freeways, sewerage, stormwater, fresh water, electricity supplies etc are planned on the basis of the whole metropolitan system, because they are part of the same urban area under the same state govt, and are joined.

The state border is a barrier to this. That's why the NSW Govt had to wait for the QLD Govt to announce it's plans with the Tugun Bypass, before it could work out what it was doing.

Logqan is part of Brisbane, just as Parramatta is part of Sydney. I am yet to hear any difference.

 

[Loudstrat]

They're counted as a single urban area for ABS purposes. It's also hard to argue since if you didn't actually know it was a state border you'd still think you were in Cooloongatta.

Are Jersey City and Bridgeport not part of Greater New York because of state boundaries?

Actually, ABS differentiates. It's data is broken down into states, so the Tweed stats and the Gold Coast stats are different.

I've heard of Gold Coast-Tweed, Albury-Wodonga, Echuca-Moama, but never Logan-Brisbane.

 

[mark123]

wow, its pretty easy

you have brisbane. then you have logan

they ARE NOT the same thing.

logan is a city on its own and is refered to as such often here.

logan city.

http://www.logan.qld.gov.au/

i, ah, suggest you check it out.

all the other methods of deciding are ok, but you can't denounce the fact that now there is proof that logan is a city by itself.

it will one day boast (they have said in times gone by) that it would have a city centre twice the size of brisbane. I suppose brisbane has some limitations, but logan can be planned more. I would find it hard to believe just in the next few decades that logan would be bigger than brissy, it won't, but in many more after that, whos to say?

An excerpt from web site (about logan page):

A brief history of Logan
From early penal settlement to when the freeway linked Brisbane to Springwood and then the Gold Coast, and Logan is declared a city, here's a brief history of Logan.

___


Look at that, it was declared a city. in 1981

Its not brisbane

 

[Serc]

I live in Logan and consider myself to be a part of Brisbane

Hope that helps your thrashing out of this issue

 

[mark123]

well you shouldnt, technically, but its ok to do so.

 

[t-ba]

wow, its pretty easy

you have brisbane. then you have logan

they ARE NOT the same thing.

logan is a city on its own and is refered to as such often here.

logan city.

http://www.logan.qld.gov.au/

i, ah, suggest you check it out.

all the other methods of deciding are ok, but you can't denounce the fact that now there is proof that logan is a city by itself.

it will one day boast (they have said in times gone by) that it would have a city centre twice the size of brisbane. I suppose brisbane has some limitations, but logan can be planned more. I would find it hard to believe just in the next few decades that logan would be bigger than brissy, it won't, but in many more after that, whos to say?

An excerpt from web site (about logan page):

A brief history of Logan
From early penal settlement to when the freeway linked Brisbane to Springwood and then the Gold Coast, and Logan is declared a city, here's a brief history of Logan.

___


Look at that, it was declared a city. in 1981

Its not brisbane

So Willoughby City, Bankstown City, Blacktown City, Botany Bay City, Campelltown City, Canada Bay City, Canterbury City etc* are all not part of Sydney then?

 

[t-ba]

It's official. Sydney only has 160,000 residents.

 

[Serc]

:lol:

Actually I should add, its sorta news to me that Logan is not generally considered to be a part of Brisbane. Most people I know think it is.

Anyway for me, Logan is no less a part of Brisbane than say, Strathpine, Sandgate and even Redcliffe...they are all at the extremities. Anything further away than these sorts of places you would consider to be either a part of another larger area, or their own little area. For example Caboolture which is really not Brisbane or the Sunny Coast.

 

[t-ba]

Caboolture's a tough one. It seems like a good 20 minute drive between it and say North lakes.

The ABS counts it as part of Brisbane though.

 

[Serc]

Interesting

Maybe I should pay attention in class more when we play around with ABS data...doing some 2nd and 3rd year human geog subjects currently you see, I should know better!