Union / League and private schools

[ali]

G'Day all,
I was just wondering what is the story in regards to Rugby League in private schools. Specifically the GPS and CAS schools of Sydney, but elsewhere if you have some information.
Do these schools run any Rugby League teams? I thought their lack of interest in League may have been in the best interests of their first 15. But then I read recently that a kid from a private school who was good at Union, started playing AFL and was selcted in the AFL draft. That would have meant the school had no grudges against him giving up Union. I also hear that the GPS basketball is pretty big. Surely that would also clash with union.
Anyway, is Rugby League effectively outlawed in these schools? If so, is it a blatent case of descrimination. You can't tell me that out of all the boys attending certain private schools, they can't find enough to form a rugby league team. Someone must be stopping them

 

[Tutt Army]

Ali, I went to a CAS school, and we dont run anything to do with rugby league. Basketball isnt big in CAS I dont know about GPS but I'll imagine its the same, basically its Rugby in the winter and Cricket in the summer.
I did ask the headmaster once why we never played League, he just gave me an ironic smile and said "there's some traditions we dont change in this school".
But of course there's nothing stopping you from playing League outside of school, so long as it doesnt interfere with your sport commitments at school.
They allowed soccer to be played some time ago butI dont think they will ever change there mind on Rugby League.
Rugby Leaguewas seen as a mindless sport played by thugs, by most staff and the school board, but a lot of the students, like me,followed the NRL and will often catch up with each other atSaints and Bulldogs games, most of those studentsplayed league outside school as well.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Ali, in the limited experiences that I have had with private schools, league is pretty much outlawed. Unfortunately, its not discrimination because it is up to the individual school as to which sports they choose to offer. This is the number 1 reason why union has a very 'upper class' in Australia. It was for almost 100 years a sport exclusively played by north shore/eastern suburbs school kids (Even today, it is mainly played in those areas by the upper class kids)

Head outside of that area and league is clearly the sport of choice. But Ali, im sure that if u did a bit of snooping around, you could find many specific examples of school officials and the ARU colluding to ensure that union gets the 'old boys treatment' at the expense of other sports. It would be a great exposure and may rip apart much of the old boys infrastructure throughout Sydney....

MFC.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Just curious - what are CAS and GPS schools? They are both types of private schools, I take it. How many private schools are there compared to public schools? And is league played widely in the public schools, or is it more a club sport played outside of schools?

 

[Tutt Army]

CAS- Combined Associated Schools
GPS- Greater Public Schools

There both groups of Private Schoolswhich are considered the most "expensive" schools in Sydney. CAS has about 6 schools in there association and GPS has about 8, I think.

League is played widely in the public school system,actually the Aussie Home Loans schoolboy competition is shown on free to air T.V on Sunday morning and they are often a curtain raiser to the Friday Night NRL game. Many NRL stars have come from this competition, some that come to mind are Trent Barrett, Timana Tahu and I merkin think of the rest.

 

[Marcus]

I read in a magazine that said that "rugby is not a recognised sport among the Metropolitan Catholic Schools Association". Now I was wondering can anybody confirm that?

Also the notion of rugby as being for the private schools is an inaccurate assumption. If you look at the Australian Schools squad you will see 25% of the players are from public schools.

AUSTRALIAN SCHOOLBOYS SQUAD 2001 Ole Avei - The Southport School, QLD
Rodney Blake - Homebush Boys High School, NSW
Richard Brown - St Joseph`s College Nudgee, QLD
Mitchell Chapman (c) - Brisbane Grammar School, QLD
Josh Clements - Hurlstone Agricultural College, NSW
David Dillon - St Edmund`s College, ACT
Josh Graham - The Southport School, QLD
Simon Hockings - Parkes High School, NSW
Luke Holmes - Narrabeen Sports High School, NSW
Jonathon Hoy - Narrabundah College, ACT
Junior Hunt - St Francis College, QLD
Gordon Kome - Punchbowl Boys High School, NSW
Saul Lilomaiava - Noble Park Secondary College, VIC
Chris Lyons - St Joseph`s College Nudgee, QLD
Kieran Massey - Homebush Boys High School, NSW
Kit Maulio - The Southport School, QLD
Hugh McMeniman - St Joseph`s College Nudgee, QLD
Drew Mitchell - St Patrick`s College, QLD
Rowen Pearce - Parkes High School, NSW
Ian Potter - St Joseph`s College Nudgee, QLD
Alex Quinlivan - St Ignatius` College, NSW
Jarrod Saffy - St Joseph`s College, NSW
Chris Siale - St Patrick`s College, NSW
Tyrone Smith - St Edmund`s College, ACT
Lei Tomiki - The Scot`s College, NSW
Joe Tufuga - St Francis College, QLD
Josh Valentine - Narrabeen Sports High School, NSW
Henari Veratau - The Scot`s College, NSW I was wondering if anybody knew what the Australian Rugby League School Boys Squad was - and what is the ratio of public to private school players.

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[Paul]

The separation of union and Rugby League between private and public schools is a bit of an oversimplification, but it does in part reflect the class and sectarian divide which did, and still to a certain extent, exists in Australia today. Many of the early administrators of Rugby League in NSW were associated with the Labor Party, and the Catholic school system. In the early part of the 20th century, in Rugby League's nascent years, (Irish) Catholics were a marginalised group in a society controlled by a right wing elite. Some may argue that this situation hasn't changed Subsequently, the Catholic Marist Brothers Schools embraced Rugby League as the football code in 1913, with other Catholic schools following suit in 1920. It was , however, the the introduction of Rugby League into the public schools system in 1920, up until when union had remained the dominant code, by a NSW Labor government Minister for Public Instruction, which gave Rugby League the impetus to become the dominant football code, that it continues to be to this day.

 

[imported_youngie]

Rugby Union is predominately a private school sport, with very few private schools playing League (most notably St Gregs Campbelltown is private) the upper level private schools in NSW are all Rugby schools. I have some experience of schoolboy footy as a student at Hurlstone Ag High School, a government school that plays rugby against the Private schools.
A worrying trend I've noticed is that a number of classic League schools in western Sydney such as Birrong Boys, East Hills and many others have started playing solely Union recently. Union is very much on the rise amongst Public Schools.
Evidence of this is the performance of this years Combined High Schools side (public schools) the CHS team beat all comers, even thrashing GPS. The public school boys went great this year, led by Rodney Blake (150 kilos) and SMH NSWschoolboy Rugby player of the year Josh Clements a tall, hard tackling second rower.
The private schools (especially GPS) are extremely snobbish and are a breeding ground for arrogant snobs. They will never ever play League, that is for sure. They are very traditional and basically see themselves as to posh for League.

 

[hutch]

just in reply to the metropolitan catholic schools question, rugby UNION is not played amongst the mcs schools. there are 3 grades of open rugby league with about 7-8 teams in each. schools such as st gregs and parra marist have teams in all 3 grades usually. i remember hearing once that st gregs once had a rugby union team which played against public schools, but im not sure if this incuded players from their league team. but being a parra marist boy, i dont care as gregs are the enemy.

 

[ali]

Youngie I was also a bit worried when I read the result in the paper about CHS smashing GPS. But I wonder how many of the CHS boys were just playing union for the hell of it, and are infact league players.
Anyway, my old school probably has more enthusiasm for Union than league. Whilst they run more League teams, the open Union team seemed to be more important than the open League team. This was becuase the bloke who coached both of then, hailed from Wales and was a union fanatic. I think in most of the public schools, what form of rugby they are most into might depend on who is on the staff.

 

[imported_The One]

I know of at least one private school student who played for the Junior Kangaroos this year: Michael Russo from Nudgee College (a well known Rah Rah school in Brisbane).

 

[CanadianSteve]

Reading your list of the schoolboys squad, Marcus, there is only one player from Vic, the rest from QLD, ACT, and NSW. Is this typical, that union AND league players come mainly from QLD, ACT, and NSW? In VIC and WA, do more kids play league or union? (I know Aussie Rules is predominant) Do any top players of either rugby code ever come from these states?

 

[Marcus]

CanadianSteve:

Yeah, its very typical to find union or league players that are from ACT, QLD, and NSW. The same can be applied to aussie rules as most of the players are from WA, SA, and VIC.

I think union is more popular than league in WA and VIC. I don't have the playing numbers to prove it, but going by the crowd attendences of Wallaby matches over the last 3-5 yrs I think union is winning in the popularity stakes in Perth and Melbourne.

One ex-wallaby that I know of who is a Victorian is former prop Ewen McKenzie. He is now the forwards coach for the Wallabies. Some have said that if Melbourne is granted Australia's 4th Super 12 team then the man that should be coach should be Ewen McKenzie - it would be an ideal homecoming for him and for the Melbourne public.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Fair suck of the sav Marcus, 95% of Melburnians wouldnt have a clue as to who Ewan McKenzie was/is. I'll tell you now, Melburnians on average would be a lot more familar with league, as high class league games have been played down there for over 10yrs now, and the Storm have had a permenant spot in the Melbourne sporting public for over 4 years now.

Come on! Be realistic, league is alot more established in Victoria then Union

Moff.

 

[Edwahu]

I remember a article at Rleague.comand another one in the Canberra times that said the Australian under 18's League side had a fair few players from the WA junior leagues and a couple from NT and SA. If I remember correctly there was 9 from WA.

It could of been a development squad but it didnt mention it in the articles.

 

[Edwahu]

It was 8 WA players in the emerging squad. There are also a couple of promising WA juniors playing first division.

The Reds actually went pretty well and averaged decent enough crowds, they never should of got booted.

 

[ali]

Yeah that was squad picked from the emerging states. They defeated the BARLA under 18's in a match before a Storm game. One of the players from WA, Bronx Goodwin has gone on to sign with Cronulla. But you can hardly call him a success story for Rugby league development. Considering his Dad is Lord Ted Goodwin. Its a bit similar to the AFL calling Collingwood's Nick Davis a success story of Sydney development. The only reason he lived in Sydney was becuase his Dad worked for the Swans.

 

[Marcus]

MFC, I wouldn't go far as to saying league is established in Melbourne. Sure... the NRL have got a team there, but do people in Melbourne take notice of the Storm? The Storm averaged 13,000 a game at colonial (they give away lots of free tickets), they hardly get a mention in the local media even though they were the champions 2 yrs ago. They are in the red financially, and tell me... how many of the players are actually born and bred in Victoria? None. What about at the grassroots level, what are the playing numbers? (In union its approx. 3,000).

If Victoria is granted Australia's fourth Super 12 team, then look out the Storm. Cause they will be in for a real fight.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Marcus, stop with the misquoting....

I said:

"Come on! Be realistic, league is alot more established in Victoria then Union"

and i also said:

"I'll tell you now, Melburnians on average would be a lot more familar with league"

Where did i say that league was well established in Victoria? I was making a comparision between league and union. League has an up and running team that has been around for 4 years. They have garnered solid support. Sure, they may be slightly in the red but lets not forget that the NSWRU is still 5m in debt. Don't even start harping on about the Storm giving away free tickets. You head down to Ticketek and look at the freebies that the Waratahs hand out for their games. It is astounding, and im not making up things here, as i know someone in the business.

In your original post, you said that it would be a homecoming for Ewen McKenzie and the Victorian public if he came back. Now to suggest that more then 5% of the victorian population would even KNOW who he is is quite frankly, laughable. You can speak out your mass visions all u want buddy, but don't lose sight of reality.

Moff.