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4N: Is the demolition of PNG and the like good for the game?

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
Last night's ratings for the Bledisloe were lower than Aus v PNG in the four nations!

& their BC game from Hong Kong recorded 448K (Oztam Regions -mainland capitals) last year to 378K this year - down 70K.
 
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applesauce

Bench
Messages
3,573
Was Uate and the like forced in to any such decision though applesauce? If so, agreed, this is part of the problem which goes back to an earlier post of mine re: pledging allegiance to your Nation.

I heard that re: ratings between the codes.

In many ways he was, due to the strength of SOO.

He was forced to choose by having to give one up. I know which I would take (SOO) and that doesn't make it right.

And for all those blokes claiming the rules are what make SOO great.... Lamb, Hunt, Carroll, Thorn, Inglis.

I find it just as disrespectful for a Uate to come along and can claim allegiance for NSW, when he really wouldn't fit into the definition for a lot of the guys who defend the rules definitions of a NSWelshman.

That goes for all the other islanders that jump on the SOO bandwagon and a forced to abandon their countries (Tuqiri, Jennings, Folau).

I don't mind them playing one bit. I do not like that they can't play for their own countries (especially when they are not pick for 1 of the big 3).
 
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Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,174
In many ways he was, due to the strength of SOO.

He was forced to choose by having to give one up. I know which I would take (SOO) and that doesn't make it right.

And for all those blokes claiming the rules are what make SOO great.... Lamb, Hunt, Carroll, Thorn, Inglis.

What's the problem with Thorn's Origin eligibility?
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
They act like Australia has already won tonight's game by 50 points. I don't see how an understrength England losing by 14 to a virtually full-strength World Champion side renders the tournament useless. Australia hasn't won a Tri-Nations for 9 years. I'm sure a Two Nations tournament invloving Australia and New Zealand in England would do wonders for international Rugby League.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,174
Anyone would think the Kiwis dusted the Poms by 100 points a fortnight ago the way they are going on.

It was 24-10 ffs and if Brown had of been awarded that try in the second half, who knows what would've happened.

People are just waiting to bag the international game and will use any angle to do so.

The sooner we get some of these non-big 3 internationals on Tv, the better.
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
France; a first world country bigger than Britain with the economic infrastructure and Rugby League pedigree to support professional clubs at the professional level is the most likely candidate to emerge as a fourth power.

Far from your assessment, if we as a game were truly serious about making it happen - by guaranteeing the position of two to three professional clubs in the SL, by reforming the import rules of the SL to ensure that the comp was dominated by local players with only genuine super star imports in their prime, by providing the France national side a minimum of six matches per year thru permanent entry into the Four Nations and mid year competition against England, and by providing a scholarship program for promising young English and French stars to play in the NRL - If we did these things, I have little doubt that an England vs France Four Nations final would be a genuine possibility within twenty years, perhaps even a probability.

If we were serious about making it happen.

But if the attitude you've expressed above is echoed in the corridors of power in Australia and England then you're right, it never will.

Leigh.

I would love for France to become a real power in international rugby league. Bit it aint going to happen. Not in my lifetime anyway.

As I said back in the late 50's and 60's the French showed some real promise. But nothing since.

Somewhere along the line you have to be honest about things and admit that France being a real power in the game is not going to happen.
 

ucantseeme

Juniors
Messages
1,729
Last night's ratings for the Bledisloe were lower than Aus v PNG in the four nations!

Geez that's bad. I know it was simulcast on FoxSports but still. Pow!

The 4N will continue whilst it still makes money. If it stops being financially viable the ARL will come up with something else. Don't forget PNG gets a share of revenue which it can invest in developing the game back home. If they weren't part of the tournament every 2 years, then they would not get access to those funds.

Short term view, PNG getting flogged is bad look for Int RL.
Long term view, money from playing in 4N will help local PNG players be developed and be more competitive down the track.
 

duck_dodgers

Juniors
Messages
426
hmmm people who live in 2 states of Australia discussing how PNG makes a difference to the international profile of RL .

when you get some spare time ... try coulouring in the bits of this map where RL is the no 1 sport ...

images


it won't take long .
 

Radioactive Man

Juniors
Messages
397
hmmm people who live in 2 states of Australia discussing how PNG makes a difference to the international profile of RL .

when you get some spare time ... try coulouring in the bits of this map where RL is the no 1 sport ...

images


it won't take long .

Your point is .... ? No one here, is under any illusions that league is a widely played game like soccer or even rugby union. Hence why rugby league is still developing on the international stage.
 

NRLMad

Juniors
Messages
830
hmmm people who live in 2 states of Australia discussing how PNG makes a difference to the international profile of RL .

when you get some spare time ... try coulouring in the bits of this map where RL is the no 1 sport ...

images


it won't take long .

why don't you stick to watching the soon to be defunct B League...
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
28,939
Would also like to point out the Papua New Guinea side looks radically different from the side that took out the Pacific Cup in 2009.

Missing from that squad in 2009 include...

Jay Aston
Jason Chan
Anton Kui
Tu'u Maori
Tyson Martin
David Mead
James Nightingale (who I think has only just joined the side)
Keith Peters
John Wilshere

With that amount of players missing and the quality (at least in comparison to the replacements) it's perfectly understandable to see the PNG side perform as they have.
 

The Observer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,742
I agree that we need to have patience to grow the international game, to put into place a structure that gives non Big 3 nations a chance to develop so that they eventually compete with the Big 3. The Kiwis PNG game was fun to watch. The England vs Maori game was close and exciting. However, I don't think the current 3/4/# Nations model is the most effective way to develop and expand the international game. I think this current model (basically the 1999 3N model) represented a contraction from 2004-2006, a retrograde step. I voiced my concerns on PNG's involvement, most recently in March in PNG Kumuls in 4N 2010 - competitive standard and legacy

RL is following a Cricket Australia model (the Tri Series) which CA abandoned. RU's model of three windows (regional series/tournament, inbound tests, outbound tests) could be modified to drive growth of international RL much more effectively than the cricket model.

Sports like RU expanded to Italy, though I'd suggest that the Five Nations committee, IRB and SANZAR plan their major tournaments more strategically and attain more growth because they schedule more close games and fewer games against minnows. The 5N chose to add Italy and not Romania, for example, because the former had more potential to grow both on the field and as a new broadcast market. Italy had a professional club competition (the Super 10) and a test team full of full-time professionals. SANZAR will expand the 3N to include Argentina in 2012 because the Pumas will potentially satisfy those two criteria (all the Pumas play in France's Top 14 and for British clubs). They passed over:
* Japan - potentially large broadcast market (though former Wallabies coach, Eddie Jones, who has a Japanese parent and wife, and is now coaching there, argued against the TV potential there) 14 Top League teams owned by large corporations, foreigners are FT pros, locals are semi-pro. However, grass roots and junior development is poor, JRFU administration is amateur, test team is at the bottom of Tier 2, doesn't challenge the elite Tier 1 nations.
* Pacific nations - Tier 2, none challenge the elite Tier 1 nations in non-World Cup games.

How is this relevant to RL? Well, RU retained the major competitions, and the inbound/outbound windows run roughly on a home and away basis. In particular, SANZAR's 3N is highly competitive, scheduled home and away, attracts large attendances, large audiences and basically generates the majority of value for the News Corp broadcast deal, thus attracting lion's share of revenue to fund the sport in those three Southern Hemisphere nations. SANZAR didn't contract their flagship competition. In contrast, RL has:
* programmed fewer competitive games, reducing the number of top quality matches from 2004-2006 3N (from 6 clashes involving the Big 3, down to 4)
* done the opposite to RU, the equivalent of promoting Romania or Japan RU, rather than building on a strong format. Here's a table of total and average attendances for each RL 3/4 Nations.

Of the five Tri/Four Nations tournaments held since full time professionalism, the 2009 Four Nations yielded:
* the second smallest aggregate attendance, second only to the 1999 tournament.
* the smallest average attendance of any tournament.
* 4N 2009 featured a decline of 62,000 spectators from Tri Nations 2006, on average almost 10,000 fewer spectators per game than the 2006 tournament.

Even in cricket, the big four nations (India, Australia, England, South Africa) increasingly program more games that generate the most interest and revenue for them, and fewer games against Test minnows, let alone Associate nations. Hence why India still programs large ODI series, why the Ashes occurs every two years.
 
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kiwileaguefan

Juniors
Messages
2,426
You know whats funny, is that i have not seen any negative press over here in NZ about the PNG loss. It seams only to be the Australian press thats quick to write off the international game.
 

bobbis

Juniors
Messages
798
But they still are, by far, the most successful yawnion country in the world and have been so virtually since day dot.

Doesn't say much for union's alledged massive world following.

Actually up until 1995 the Boks had won the majority of their tests against the All Blacks, so definitely not since day dot.


Not sure why people care about Cannon's opinion, surely the more concerning opinion is that of Elias, a former Kangaroo who has derided the tournament. The problem isn't people from other sports who don't care for international RL, it's RL administrators, players and fans that treat it poorly. If RL in Australia got behind it the games would be packed and played at big stadiums like ANZ. Much like a RL fan's perspective on international RU is irrelevent, if people within RU thought it farcical there'd be a problem. I'm sure there'll be some soccer or RL writer that will bag the RWC when someone score 100 points next year, but it won't matter as their opinion was never valued or respected in the first place.

There's no point in bailing on the 4 nations. Its the people within the game who treat the international aspect with indifference or derision who have an effect, not those outside looking in.
 

fightingirish69

Juniors
Messages
1,642
i know the big three dont go on tours anymore, but couldn't they have some emerging nations come out and play country teams, state teams. with a possible match against an nrl team

png versus qld country
it doesn'y have to be televised, i'm sure a lot of league fans in the bush would turn up to see a game like that
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,052
I would love for France to become a real power in international rugby league. Bit it aint going to happen. Not in my lifetime anyway.

As I said back in the late 50's and 60's the French showed some real promise. But nothing since.

Somewhere along the line you have to be honest about things and admit that France being a real power in the game is not going to happen.
If we'd really been trying to make France a real power for the last 40 years then I'd agree, it's time to admit it is not going to happen. But we haven't been really trying for 40 years. We as a game allowed any potential that France had to languish in decades of apathy as the game there was left to struggle to make it on its own. It's only since the entry of the country's first fully professional franchise, Les Catalans, into the SL in 2006 that we've taken the first step toward making France the power it could be. Far from admitting defeat after 40 years you want to throw it all away after only four. It's that short term attitude that will continue to doom our efforts.

Leigh.
 

duck_dodgers

Juniors
Messages
426
Your point is .... ? No one here, is under any illusions that league is a widely played game like soccer or even rugby union. Hence why rugby league is still developing on the international stage.

rubbish ... most of the people here think RL is THE game ... mostly because the impression you get from the local media (if you haven't lived for any time outside of NSW or QLD) would have you believe that to be true .

Just the same as Melbournites think AFL will not only takeover western Sydney but will soon be the code of choice across the galaxy .

Just the same as Americans are in love with NFL ... but the rest of the world thinks ... meh .

developing you say ? It's been 100+ years since the game started and it's barely moved an inch since ... in fact it's probably detracted because France & England used to be stronger 50 years ago .

When I was much younger I used to think RL was an international game too ... the Kangaroo tours and mid-week games against club sides in the UK were great stuff .

But go overseas , basically anywhere overseas , and not only does RL not get a mention but neither does Australia .

As you get older ( and hopefully wiser ) you'll understand that too .
 

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