What's unfolding on twitter?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Here's my take on things, baring in mind that I am trying to be as impartial as possible and that I can only go by what I've seen online.

David Nui has every right to run his league the way he sees fit.
However, any club in that league has every right to break away if they do not agree with that way.
It's a fact of life that some people are leaders and some are followers. New clubs are not in the best position to dictate on what they think is the best course of action for their development, and David Nui has proven that he can get things started. So I don't blame clubs for wanting to stay with him in that capacity. However, Nui has shown time and time again that he cannot take that league to the next level after so many (quite frankly ridiculous) false promises and pipe dreams (NRLUS anyone?). Clubs that want to go to that level cannot be blamed for believing that Nui can't take them there, and calls for a change were left on deaf ears so they broke away. That is their right.

Now, the USARL, under a new democratic system, may not reach that level either. But at least everyone has their say, and their is belief that if one way doesn't work then at least their will be another option with someone else without having to change or break away. AMNRL = Nui, USARL = everyone involved.

So basically, I have no issue in regards to rival competitions in the same country. If they both have something to offer, they'll both survive. If one is far stronger than the other, one won't (and thus be proven to not be the best method).

The only thing I don't agree with is the policy of selection for the national team. You're always going to get ringers on the grandparent rule, I have no issue with that. Those are the rules and if you want to take a stance whilst everyone else exploits them, then you're just going to miss out for the sake of nothing.
However, I find it totally unacceptable that Nui refuses to select players from the USARL. He'll select players from all over the world, but will ignore players in his own country. He's using "possible selection for the national team" as a tag line to attract people to the AMNRL, and to me that seems desperate. If he believed enough in his competition and the way it is run, he wouldn't need to try and get a cheap upper hand. And to me, this is where the AMNRL come across as unprofessional.

The national representative team should not belong to one person. It should represent the nation, and the RLIF should step in. If the AMNRL refuse to select players from all over the country, then they should not be the recognised governing body of the USA if there is another governing body that would. If you want to be the "officially recognised" governing body, you've got to toe the line, not b*tch about it on Twitter when your standards come in to question.

So there's my two pennies worth anyway. Separate competitions, fine. Using the national team as a pawn in the battle, not fine and the only the the RLIF need to rectify.

 

[biggestbroncosfan]

Here's my take on things, baring in mind that I am trying to be as impartial as possible and that I can only go by what I've seen online.

David Nui has every right to run his league the way he sees fit.
However, any club in that league has every right to break away if they do not agree with that way.
It's a fact of life that some people are leaders and some are followers. New clubs are not in the best position to dictate on what they think is the best course of action for their development, and David Nui has proven that he can get things started. So I don't blame clubs for wanting to stay with him in that capacity. However, Nui has shown time and time again that he cannot take that league to the next level after so many (quite frankly ridiculous) false promises and pipe dreams (NRLUS anyone?). Clubs that want to go to that level cannot be blamed for believing that Nui can't take them there, and calls for a change were left on deaf ears so they broke away. That is their right.

Now, the USARL, under a new democratic system, may not reach that level either. But at least everyone has their say, and their is belief that if one way doesn't work then at least their will be another option with someone else without having to change or break away. AMNRL = Nui, USARL = everyone involved.

So basically, I have no issue in regards to rival competitions in the same country. If they both have something to offer, they'll both survive. If one is far stronger than the other, one won't (and thus be proven to not be the best method).

The only thing I don't agree with is the policy of selection for the national team. You're always going to get ringers on the grandparent rule, I have no issue with that. Those are the rules and if you want to take a stance whilst everyone else exploits them, then you're just going to miss out for the sake of nothing.
However, I find it totally unacceptable that Nui refuses to select players from the USARL. He'll select players from all over the world, but will ignore players in his own country. He's using "possible selection for the national team" as a tag line to attract people to the AMNRL, and to me that seems desperate. If he believed enough in his competition and the way it is run, he wouldn't need to try and get a cheap upper hand. And to me, this is where the AMNRL come across as unprofessional.

The national representative team should not belong to one person. It should represent the nation, and the RLIF should step in. If the AMNRL refuse to select players from all over the country, then they should not be the recognised governing body of the USA if there is another governing body that would. If you want to be the "officially recognised" governing body, you've got to toe the line, not b*tch about it on Twitter when your standards come in to question.

So there's my two pennies worth anyway. Separate competitions, fine. Using the national team as a pawn in the battle, not fine and the only the the RLIF need to rectify.

spot on couldnt have put it any better myself. This year I hope Niu does do things right and include USARL players in on the national team and it can hopefully be the start of a better future for RL in the states.

 

[YANTO]

For me the problem in all of this has been the exclusion of USARL players from the Tomahawks. I have asked David Niu, through emails, for reasons these players were excluded. He has never replied to me. So I will ask some of Niu's supporters on this thread, especially YANTO and billy2 - Why were the USARL players excluded? And do you think there was justification for their exclusion. YANTO and billy2, the floor is yours.

As I previous stated the IRLF have governing bodies to run things in their own areas and so far the AMNRL are the governing body in the US.....you want to organise a better ran competition in a country.....go a head....same as in Italy at the moment ...BUT the recognised association is what runs the international football END OFF.
AMNRL have qualified for the world cup

 

[Evil Homer]

As I previous stated the IRLF have governing bodies to run things in their own areas and so far the AMNRL are the governing body in the US.....you want to organise a better ran competition in a country.....go a head....same as in Italy at the moment ...BUT the recognised association is what runs the international football END OFF.
AMNRL have qualified for the world cup

I don't know how you think the 'IRLF' is structured, but it seems to me that you don't really have any understanding of how international sport works.

 

[YANTO]

Why do you say that ??

International sport is ran by affilated organisations and I am sorry to tell you at the moment the AMNRL are the recognised governing body of RL in the US.

This may of course change but at the moment like it or not Nui has every right to exclude a rebel organisation and its members from being selected.

Until the IRLF makes the USARL or a the AMNRL( or a com
bination of both) as the governing body Nui has every right to only select players he wants.

Maybe not ideal... but I ask again if the USARL had of sat back and given a bit more thought into what laid ahead ..ie World Cup qualifiers...then maybe just maybe they would have looked at the bigger picture.


Ego's on both sides have to be looked at....2010 was not the best time for a split in America.

 

[YANTO]

I don't know how you think the 'IRLF' is structured, but it seems to me that you don't really have any understanding of how international sport works.

Have you ever been at the forefront of developing the game or just typed your thoughts on a key board ???
Have you ever put your own money and your own time into trying to get RL played in places where ten years ago it was just a pipe dream ??
Have you ever came up against what Nui is now facing despite being the forefather of RL in America.?

Maybe you have ....I dont know....maybe you have not.....but until you have put your arse on the ground in a sport you believe in then please do not tell me who is right and wrong.

 

[Evil Homer]

Obviously the AMNRL currently control the USA national team, that's not exactly a revelation. But that doesn't mean it's an AMNRL select team, it's supposed to represent the USA, not the AMNRL. It's nobody's right to exclude players based on the competition they play in. Your ideas are all over the place.

 

[YANTO]

Obviously the AMNRL currently control the USA national team, that's not exactly a revelation. But that doesn't mean it's an AMNRL select team, it's supposed to represent the USA, not the AMNRL. It's nobody's right to exclude players based on the competition they play in. Your ideas are all over the place.

Evil Homer you Aussie based or UK based ? No matter what when the SL Split happened no two organisations could put the same guys on the field as one united team....same as what is now happening in the US

YES it will solve itself over the years but as an admin on this board your slant on the situation is very very one eyed mate.

Anyone with another opinion (looking at the AMNRL view) is shot down.:sarcasm:

 

[Evil Homer]

Evil Homer you Aussie based or UK based ? No matter what when the SL Split happened no two organisations could put the same guys on the field as one united team....same as what is now happening in the US

YES it will solve itself over the years but as an admin on this board your slant on the situation is very very one eyed mate.

Anyone with another opinion (looking at the AMNRL view) is shot down.:sarcasm:

The SL split is nothing to do with it, the situations are not comparable in any way. I'm not one-eyed, we have a situation where the person in charge of a national team is picking people based on personal preferance and excluding others because of the club they play for. Whichever way you look at it, that is wrong. I think everyone understands why Niu and the AMNRL have taken the stance that they have, but that doesn't make it right. If people running a national team are unable to operate fairly and without personal bias, then they need to go. The fact that the AMNRL have operated so unprofessionally throughout all of this just lends further weight to that view.

 

[Evil Homer]

Have you ever been at the forefront of developing the game or just typed your thoughts on a key board ???
Have you ever put your own money and your own time into trying to get RL played in places where ten years ago it was just a pipe dream ??
Have you ever came up against what Nui is now facing despite being the forefather of RL in America.?

Maybe you have ....I dont know....maybe you have not.....but until you have put your arse on the ground in a sport you believe in then please do not tell me who is right and wrong.

I fully understand why you are sympathetic towards Niu. But just because somebody has founded the game somewhere, that doesn't mean they are going to be the best person to take it forwards, it doesn't mean that they are neccessarily going to be a good administrator or have any real idea about how things should be run. Anyone who spends time and effort setting up the game should understand that it's not going to be their personal toy forever - at some point, the running of the game needs to move to a democratic process, and if the founders aren't willing to be part of that democratic process and run things properly then sadly that's going to be the end of their involvement. I imagine that's pretty hard to take, but it shouldn't be if people have the best interests of the sport at heart. The worst thing would be to behave in the way that Niu seems to have and actively attempt to undo all the good work because his ego was unwilling to relinquish total control.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

YANTO and billy2. Both of you quoted me in your next posts, but neither of you answered the questions. I suppose in a round-about way you answered the first, although because they weren't AMNRL players is a weak answer as other non-AMNRL players were selected. But the second - Do you think Niu was justified in excluding the USARL players in light of the fact everyone else on the planet was eligible. I await with anticipation.

 

[league13]

- Do you think Niu was justified in excluding the USARL players in light of the fact everyone else on the planet was eligible. I await with anticipation.

It shows the callibere of the man(petty) to partly select the national team from other sources whilst ignoring the USARL players.In that action alone he is not a proper person to control the game.Luckily for him it came off, but, he was quite prepared to risk that.
We have a lot to thank Nui for, he will be remembered for that and rightly so.Just a pity he could not see the aims of those that formed the USARL and gone along with them.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Why do you say that ??

International sport is ran by affilated organisations and I am sorry to tell you at the moment the AMNRL are the recognised governing body of RL in the US.

This may of course change but at the moment like it or not Nui has every right to exclude a rebel organisation and its members from being selected.

Until the IRLF makes the USARL or a the AMNRL( or a com
bination of both) as the governing body Nui has every right to only select players he wants.

I can't agree with this, I'm sorry.

Nui is in charge of the national team as he is head of the officially recognised national governing body in USA. His responsibility in this capacity (head of the national team) is to do what is best for the country. He is not fulfilling this. He is using his position (head of the national team) to advantage the AMNRL, not to do what's best for the country. He has not right to do this, and it is this reason WHY the RLIF are stepping in.

Maybe not ideal... but I ask again if the USARL had of sat back and given a bit more thought into what laid ahead ..ie World Cup qualifiers...then maybe just maybe they would have looked at the bigger picture.

Can't agree with this either.

For a start, these clubs will not have foreseen Nui's banning of their players from the international team (because it's wrong). You're asking clubs to be bullied into doing something they don't want for a head of an organisation that has shown he doesn't care what they think. It's not the USARL's fault that Nui won't pick them, and if the AMNRL Tomahawks didn't make the WC, it would have been the AMNRL's fault for being too proud to ask for the help of their "rivals".

Ego's on both sides have to be looked at....2010 was not the best time for a split in America.

When is a good time to split? If there is a problem, then it is better to sort it out sooner than later. Had they not made the WC, it would only have been a short term set back for the good of the game.

I fail to see how the USARL wanting a democratic process to be in place can be seen as egotistical when the alternative is an autocratic process?

 

[juro]

If the USARL teams waited to split until after the World Cup qualifiers, they would no doubt have had to wait until after the World Cup too. There would always be something on the horizon to wonder when is the best time...

 

[YANTO]

Now we are talking what is best for the USA .... rather than blaming one man.....its good to talk and everyone has his/ her own opinion.

USA in the world cup finals...could be massive for the game......did Nui stick by what he believed in YES.

Did the USARL really think about what the split would do to the game in such an important time...????

Dont get me wrong...I have read a lot about what is happening over the pond but give the guy some credit.....he had a vision and now its come to fruition........he stuck by what he believed was right despite the whole world and its dog calling for him to step away.


I dont think the USARL guys will be exempt from the WC team ( if they are good enough) but the founder and pioneer of the game in the states has made a statement and proberbly for the first time DELIVERED what he promised.

Give Nui credit for what has gone on over the last ten or twelve years.....dont knock him for the last two or three.

 

[Evil Homer]

The fact that USA qualified isn't relevant to this at all. Niu did not 'stick by what he believed in', he excluded a bunch of players in an attempt to maintain power for himself. Everyone gives Niu credit for founding RL in the USA, but his actions over the past year have been a blight on the game there.

 

[YANTO]

YANTO and billy2. Both of you quoted me in your next posts, but neither of you answered the questions. I suppose in a round-about way you answered the first, although because they weren't AMNRL players is a weak answer as other non-AMNRL players were selected. But the second - Do you think Niu was justified in excluding the USARL players in light of the fact everyone else on the planet was eligible. I await with anticipation.

To me.... looking back on what has gone on..... I do think he was justified (at the time I also had doubts about his ethics).......the USARL was a rebel organisation and not recognised by the International Federation..That is what people do not seem to grasp.


IF Nui gave into demands to select players from a rebel competition this could have caused problems for the game world wide.Any clubs could have formed a break away competition in any country and expected to recieve the same status as the official body.

The game would have been in turmoil with every Tom Dick and Harry claiming to represnt the nation.

 

[YANTO]

The fact that USA qualified isn't relevant to this at all. Niu did not 'stick by what he believed in', he excluded a bunch of players in an attempt to maintain power for himself. Everyone gives Niu credit for founding RL in the USA, but his actions over the past year have been a blight on the game there.

Dont believe the same situation is not happening right now at the none pro level in the UK with BARLA and the RFL both putting out numerous versions of "Rep" teams.Two years ago the Community Lions put out regulations that if you played for BARLA you could not represent the RFL amatuers......its still not resolved with some clubs still insisting on staying with the winter programme.

 

[Evil Homer]

Dont believe the same situation is not happening right now at the none pro level in the UK with BARLA and the RFL both putting out numerous versions of "Rep" teams.Two years ago the Community Lions put out regulations that if you played for BARLA you could not represent the RFL amatuers......its still not resolved with some clubs still insisting on staying with the winter programme.

That's because one team represents BARLA and one team represents the Summer Conference leagues. Neither are national sides. There is absolutely no comparison at all. Like I said earlier, you don't seem to have any sort of grasp of how international sport operates.

IF Nui gave into demands to select players from a rebel competition this could have caused problems for the game world wide.Any clubs could have formed a break away competition in any country and expected to recieve the same status as the official body.

God forbid he gives into the 'demands' that things be run democratically...

Regardless of the status of the competition, there is absolutely no justification for excluding players based on the club they play for. Niu included players from divisions outside America, and even included a number of players who are currently unattached and don't play for any club. The only players who were excluded were those from the USARL comp. Every other eligible player in the world was considered for selection. It's not a AMNRL rep team, it is an international team representing the USA. This has already been pointed out to you.

 

[billy2]

Is Scot Carter the guy who played for the Knights from 88 to 91?

If so he might have met Peter Illfield there. I know Illfield coached the Knights under 16s and had a lot to do with coaching courses around Newcastle before moving to the Western Reds as a development officer.

Or they might have met before that - Illfield was a long term player for Maitland in the Newcastle comp, and i have a feeling that Scot Carter joined the first Knights squad from the local comp.

Or maybe it's a completely different Scot Carter and there's no obvious connection between a kiwi and a Maito boy.