No expansion for 10 years?

[hillbillyjazzer1954]

I am all for expansion however the recently more and more the logical part me thinks it shouldn't happen witout some reduction in the number of games in sydney. By that i mean a situation similar to what hawthorn and north melbourne in the afl have done with tasmania.

An example could be Roosters striking a deal to relocate 6 games in Gosford. To satisfy me and the rest of the roosters fans the seasons fixtures could be arranged so that a number of away games v sydney teams are played at the SFS as blockbusters, so this idea incorporates the sydney blockbuster concept that received coverage mid season.

Otherwise i see manly as a likley candidate for a partial relocation to Gosford maybe even more likely than the Roosters.

Been there done that.......what I would like to see at Gosford is Saturday Double Headers (5.30 and then 7.30) once every 2 Months, that way, the Fans who support current teams and live on the Coast get to see their Team near home, and you would also get the fans from Sydney Travelling up and Fans from the North Coast Travelling Down

 

[Perth Red]

If,as is looking increasingly likely, the CC Bears are not admitted and decide to call it a day in Gosford (as they have threatend) then I hope the ARLC has in its strategic plan a strategy for keeping the region engaged and focussed on RL. Having regular double headers is a great idea as is looking to a club to incorporate the region into its promotion and Jnr development area. Maybe Newcastle? Seems most people in that rea already follow a NRL team so just need to make sure opportunity to watch live games remains and that kids get connected with the game in some way.

 

[Goddo]

If,as is looking increasingly likely, the CC Bears are not admitted and decide to call it a day in Gosford (as they have threatend) then I hope the ARLC has in its strategic plan a strategy for keeping the region engaged and focussed on RL. Having regular double headers is a great idea as is looking to a club to incorporate the region into its promotion and Jnr development area. Maybe Newcastle? Seems most people in that rea already follow a NRL team so just need to make sure opportunity to watch live games remains and that kids get connected with the game in some way.

I think we will see Manly taking a few more games to Gosford in future, against clubs like Newcastle, Tigers, Rabbitohs...

If Brookie keeps falling apart a move might be permanent.

 

[hillbillyjazzer1954]

I think we will see Manly taking a few more games to Gosford in future, against clubs like Newcastle, Tigers, Rabbitohs...

If Brookie keeps falling apart a move might be permanent.

as i said we have already tried that with the JV and it failed miserably, if we have to move i think we will go to the SFS or Homebush

 

[Beowulf]

If,as is looking increasingly likely, the CC Bears are not admitted and decide to call it a day in Gosford (as they have threatend) then I hope the ARLC has in its strategic plan a strategy for keeping the region engaged and focussed on RL. Having regular double headers is a great idea as is looking to a club to incorporate the region into its promotion and Jnr development area. Maybe Newcastle? Seems most people in that rea already follow a NRL team so just need to make sure opportunity to watch live games remains and that kids get connected with the game in some way.

Not sure why you say the Bears are unlikely to be admitted?

The NRL's own research matches that of the CC Bears - the only way the north shore will be interested in League is if there is a team called the Bears, and the only way a team can survive on the Coast is if it has corporate support from northern Sydney.

FTA and Fox ratings are below median in both regions without a team, and the Coast (albeit with some reservations) is far more behind a Bears team than a relocation from a Sydney team. Singo sums it up pretty well - if it has to be the Bears to get a team, so be it. Certainly the Sea Eagles couldn't relocate there - as said by others, the Sea Eagles if they remain in Sydney (and not relocate to the Sunshine Coast) will play out of SFS in 5 years.

Onto the main topic, if expansion was rejected, agree with other posters here and on other sites that a few of the bid teams would explore all options for redress. Even if unsuccessful, it would cause immense damage to the game in those areas. Unsure of what the Bears would do if it came to that, but I know they are meeting the ARLC in coming weeks. If anything substantial eventuates we'll know straight away, but am confident they will expand.

 

[Perth Red]

The NRL's own research matches that of the CC Bears - the only way the north shore will be interested in League is if there is a team called the Bears, and the only way a team can survive on the Coast is if it has corporate support from northern Sydney.

.

The North shore is already interested in League, in fact it is a league area (as heralded by your onw bid). I think when you see current teams playing games at Gosford and you see how partisan the crowds are to those teams it is a clear indication that most RL fans in Gosford already follow the NRL and a team.

I agree a team can't fully locate to Gosford and hope to survive, that is why, if Bears don't get in, there needs to be a strategy to ensure NRL games continue to be played there and a team takes the area under its development wing.

 

[Beowulf]

The North shore is already interested in League, in fact it is a league area (as heralded by your onw bid). I think when you see current teams playing games at Gosford and you see how partisan the crowds are to those teams it is a clear indication that most RL fans in Gosford already follow the NRL and a team.

I agree a team can't fully locate to Gosford and hope to survive, that is why, if Bears don't get in, there needs to be a strategy to ensure NRL games continue to be played there and a team takes the area under its development wing.

The north shore has lost interest in league as there is no Bears team - 7 junior teams remain since we were betrayed (was 6 but the Bears resurrected the Lane Cove tigers this year)..there used to be 12 or 13. Research (NRL and Bears) suggests a large majority will return to the game if and only if the Bears are reinstated.

Not all that attend Bluetongue are locals - the F3 has horrendous traffic jams for Fri nt games as maybe 1/2 the crowd are from Sydney travelling up to follow their team. Sure there are 5-10K fans of many Sydney teams on the Coast...but there are potentially far, far more who would warm to a team called and based on the Central Coast. Same for all the expansion hopefuls. Difference compared with Brisbane/Ipswich, our fans can't easily get to existing NRL stadiums.

Again, the FTA and Fox viewing patters suggest a major undersubscription to the game on the Coast - no team, no committment. There are masses of people not into the game that should be in a heartland area.

 

[docbrown]

Central Coast at the moment is a bit like how Newcastle was prior to the Knights entry in 1988.

Lots of fans of Sydney clubs but also a lot of people wanting their own team and they have identified with the Bears being that team. You do see people wearing Bears jerseys etc even though they're not in the competition.

The best way for making the Central Coast work is the Bears and it helps fix North Sydney at the same.

 

[Goddo]

Central Coast at the moment is a bit like how Newcastle was prior to the Knights entry in 1988.

Lots of fans of Sydney clubs but also a lot of people wanting their own team and they have identified with the Bears being that team. You do see people wearing Bears jerseys etc even though they're not in the competition.

The best way for making the Central Coast work is the Bears and it helps fix North Sydney at the same.

... and what of the 9 current Sydney sides, and an ARLC member recently saying the market is saturated in Sydney?

The game probably needs a partial team in Gosford, but it doesn't need any more teams in NSW when Qld/WA/NZ are more urgent.

NSW 7.5M and 10 teams
Qld 4.5M and 3 teams (will be bigger than Victoria within 20 years)
NZ 4.4M and 1 team
WA 2.2M and 0 teams

We can get what we need out of Gosford with current Sydney teams taking the odd game there. Maybe one specific team can take 4-6 games a year.

But we don't need another whole licence in NSW. Pointless discussion anyway, its Perth and Brisbane then day light.

 

[Perth Red]

I think even the Bears are realizing this. There has been nothing in the media from them in months?

 

[Kurt Angle]

The bears best chance is to keep upping the salary cap until the Sharks can no longer afford to be there.

I like the Bears bid, in an ideal world, they would be amongst the strongest 18 teams in the the country.

However Brisbane2 and Perth are stronger yet again. Both will be in the top half of teams in terms of finances and crowd support.

Teams like the Sharks, Roosters and Raiders are keeping you out, not Perth or Brisbane2

 

[docbrown]

... and what of the 9 current Sydney sides, and an ARLC member recently saying the market is saturated in Sydney?

The Bears offer the game more than what some of the current Sydney clubs are offering.

Some of these Sydney clubs are struggling to get 10,000 to games yet when you suggest that they take games to other areas some people snap. That doesn't bother me, the numbers are what they are they're just too proud to admit it.

The fact is Manly won't work playing 6 games in Brookvale and 6 at Gosford. Manly just isn't that well liked on the Coast. They have their fans but not enough to make a long term transition. And since the Northern Eagles fiasco, I doubt anybody would take it seriously as it would be perceived to be just another cash grab.

Another team might fully relocate there but then it doesn't have the benefit of addressing North Sydney. And it just creates the North Sydney problem in yet another part of Sydney. I don't want to see any Sydney clubs totally relocated.

I'd rather see 2 Sydney teams merge and create a team bigger than what they currently would if they were to remain seperate. In time they'd gain more than what they'd lose in the short term and if people are blinded to see the truth for what it is then so be it. As soon as the merged club starts performing on the field you see those people drift back.

If this were to happen you would no longer be able to use the NSW licence excuse against the Bears as the number of licences would remain the same and in fact be directly covering a greater area.

- or -

Extend the comp by one week.
Every team plays 25 games.
In a 20 team comp this results in 10 additional games.
Some/all these game venues could be given to 1 Sydney team that partially relocates (other than Gosford) or split over 2 Sydney team that partially relocate (other than Gosford).

Some of these Sydney clubs are struggling to get crowd interest for 12 games a year. If they had 6-7 in Sydney and then 9-10 or so at their new base, they'd benefit from a consolidation effect.

I agree that there are other areas that are more urgent but the question has to be asked will the Bears be there 5-10 years from now.

If they aren't, then you lose the whole benefit of the North Sydney re-engagement. None of your other permutations address that. People might claim that North Sydney is as a league mad as it ever was but it's just not the case. Manly have failed on this front because they have remained confined to their own enclave (likewise why they won't work on the Coast).

 

[bad boy bubby]

The bears best chance is to keep upping the salary cap until the Sharks can no longer afford to be there.

I like the Bears bid, in an ideal world, they would be amongst the strongest 18 teams in the the country.

However Brisbane2 and Perth are stronger yet again. Both will be in the top half of teams in terms of finances and crowd support.

Teams like the Sharks, Roosters and Raiders are keeping you out, not Perth or Brisbane2

You haven't been keeping up to date on our development, have you?
Our little birdie in the nest has just brought us some good news

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showpost.php?p=8557837&postcount=1179

After next week it might be time to pick on another side

edit: here's the thread in it's entirety so you can catch up.
http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=392753

 

[flippikat]

I'd rather see 2 Sydney teams merge and create a team bigger than what they currently would if they were to remain seperate. In time they'd gain more than what they'd lose in the short term and if people are blinded to see the truth for what it is then so be it. As soon as the merged club starts performing on the field you see those people drift back.

If this were to happen you would no longer be able to use the NSW licence excuse against the Bears as the number of licences would remain the same and in fact be directly covering a greater area.

I can see your point that one more joint-venture is preferable to an existing Sydney team relocating to the Central Coast. (ie a relocation will just create the same "North Sydney Problem" in where-ever the relocated team came from.)

But a big problem is that most of the neighbouring Sydney teams that currently exist have deep rivalries, and any marriage - shotgun or not - could create the same hellish relationship that the Northern Eagles had.

Who would you suggest for the next Sydney joint-venture club?

 

[_MayMoo 2]

I think even the Bears are realizing this. There has been nothing in the media from them in months?

You wish.

You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with the Bears bid and the ARLC...

One thing I can assure you that isn't, is the Bears realising anything of the sort.

From what I understand they are in this with a big shout and Perth is far from over the line - regardless of the spin.

You seriously believe Flo and Co are behind the scenes giving up? You have no idea what has gone into this bid and what discussions have and will take place with the ARLC in relation to the Bears bid -To suggest they would simply roll over is ridiculous.

 

[docbrown]

I can see your point that one more joint-venture is preferable to an existing Sydney team relocating to the Central Coast. (ie a relocation will just create the same "North Sydney Problem" in where-ever the relocated team came from.)

But a big problem is that most of the neighbouring Sydney teams that currently exist have deep rivalries, and any marriage - shotgun or not - could create the same hellish relationship that the Northern Eagles had.

Who would you suggest for the next Sydney joint-venture club?

I agree, you can't merge traditional rivals.

I have my own opinion on what teams should merge or partially relocate but as its purely subjective I don't want to fire up their supporters again as it's hard to prove it one way or the other.

Suffice to say though that if by the end of the decade there are still 2 or 3 Sydney clubs struggling with any part of finances, crowds, memberships, junior catchment areas etc then something needs to be done.

Wests Tigers and St George Illawarra Dragons are bigger brands today than what they would've been if they had remained 4 separate clubs. If SL hadn't happened and the NSWRL/ARL had their way, we would've seen more mergers/relocations any way.

 

[flippikat]

I agree, you can't merge traditional rivals.

I have my own opinion on what teams should merge or partially relocate but as its purely subjective I don't want to fire up their supporters again as it's hard to prove it one way or the other.

Suffice to say though that if by the end of the decade there are still 2 or 3 Sydney clubs struggling with any part of finances, crowds, memberships, junior catchment areas etc then something needs to be done.

Wests Tigers and St George Illawarra Dragons are bigger brands today than what they would've been if they had remained 4 separate clubs. If SL hadn't happened and the NSWRL/ARL had their way, we would've seen more mergers/relocations any way.

Fair points made - naming clubs that you'd favour merging would only just start a slanging match, and I doubt that Wests or Balmain would've achieved separately what the joint Venture has achieved.. not sure about the Dragons (Steelers had a good juniors base, and St George were often in contention in the 1990s)

The toughest test of the commission is going to be dealing with the Sydney problem - either getting ALL current Sydney clubs up to a sustainable level (financially and on the field), or finding a way to reduce the number of Sydney clubs to a level where all can be sustainable.

The NSW/ARL were inching towards addressing this in the 1990s (inching being the operative word) - would've been interesting to see how they would have addressed the issue. Alas we never got the chance to find out.

Interestingly if Superleague had never happened, then the NSWRL/ARL could have become the "bad guys" in the eyes of some traditional club fans - especially if they forced mergers or relocations or excluded clubs..

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

Those that believe a second Brisbane side is a must, what makes you believe that people will support the Bombers (or whatever they will be called) because they can't stand the Broncos for being the soulless corporate franchise that they are, when any second Brisbane team will more than likely be the same soulless corporate franchise? My Queensland geography isn't great, but I would have thought that for another south-east Queensland team to be a success it would have to identify itself strongly with a specific region, such as Ipswich or the 'western corridor'. For the record with about 1/4 of the players in the game being Pacific Islander in heritage I'm strongly in favour of a second New Zealand team - along with Perth which is an absolute given.

 

[Perth Red]

It's interesting we have heard nothing from the western corridor bid. They may well be the dark horses though I get the sense the Arlc will choose the Brisbane bid with the biggest corporate support, which would suggest Bombers.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

I think even the Bears are realizing this. There has been nothing in the media from them in months?

Realizing what? That we don't need media spin every 2 seconds to help strengthen the bid further more? There's plenty being done behind the scenes and the only reason I haven't been positing much in regards is because I've been in Europe for the last 2 and a bit months.. but I'm back home now.