A new system

[roughyedspud]

at the min theres no work into making the lower league clubs stronger....we're just here to save the SL clubs money....in the eyes of the RFL theres SL clubs & top 4 or 5 championship clubs...and everyones can just piss off....


its a joke

 

[roughyedspud]

Clubs may have to offer stupid contracts to get players to join. If they don't, they will be relegated.

This pot is not that big.

If we are funding teams in 4 divisions, youth set ups, expansion teams, and parachute payments we will be spreading ourselves very thin.

With fewer games clubs won't have as much income to grow either.

just on the number of games issue...

id introduce a "league cup" to each of the 4 leagues.

so the SL "league cup" would have 2 groups of 5.top 2 from each group advance to semis then a final...this will give each SL club 4 extra home games...ontop of the 9 regular season home games giving a total of 13 home games a season....the same as now iirc

 

[roughyedspud]

ps....the "league cups" is another tv contract the RFL could sell.....£££££

 

[Evil Homer]

at the min theres no work into making the lower league clubs stronger....we're just here to save the SL clubs money....in the eyes of the RFL theres SL clubs & top 4 or 5 championship clubs...and everyones can just piss off....


its a joke

That doesn't take away from any of the issues I've raised. If you can't look at things objectively then there isn't any point, promotion and relegation wouldn't work because there aren't enough clubs to sustain a second division of appropriate standard. It isn't the RFL's fault that a lot of heartland clubs outside of SL are really, really, really small-time and don't have the potential to reach the necessary standard.

I don't know who you think should be doing the work if not the clubs themselves. Sheffield are doing the work, Featherstone are doing the work, a couple of years ago they were also-rans but have progressed to be the standout clubs in the division while the rest have stood around and complained that nobody is doing the work for them.

 

[roughyedspud]

i expect the RFL to do the work and put in place a system that allows all clubs the flourish.....like i said before all the RFL cares about are the top 16-17 clubs.....everyone else is a after thought,expected to plod on into a uncertain future...

 

[docbrown]

Doc, the conference system is something i proposed 8 years ago now and i'd love to move to that system however it appears the current administration is looking toward this tiered system.

Like I said, I think it's what the NRL should aim towards, if not conferences then at least 4 or 5 divisions of 4 or 5 teams each.

In a 20 team comp it means that even if a team in your division has a dud season those rivalry games at the back of season still have strong significance.

Going back to the idea of an expanded super league using a conference and/or divisional system, are there natural divisions?

For example -
15 teams - no conferences but 3 divisions of 5
16 teams - 2 conferences of 8, with or with 4 divisions of 4
16 teams - no conferences but 4 divisions of 4

If people wanted promotion/relegation you could always do that for the worst performing team(s) in the division/conference/league anyway...

 

[Evil Homer]

i expect the RFL to do the work and put in place a system that allows all clubs the flourish.....like i said before all the RFL cares about are the top 16-17 clubs.....everyone else is a after thought,expected to plod on into a uncertain future...

But there is a system in place. Crusaders have managed to eclipse the likes of Oldham in just over a year - I'm not trying to pick on your club but that isn't the fault of the RFL or Super League clubs, it's the fault of the people running Oldham.

 

[DINGb@T]

Just heard about this. Is it legit?

So, as I understand it, there's two divisions of 12, they play each other to see who will make the top and bottom 8. The top 8 of div 1 go off to play the finals, the bottom 8 of div 2 go off to play for... the wooden spoon, and the 8 remaining teams play off to see who will make it into the top division next season.

Couple of things -

What are the bottom 8 playing for in the second half of the season? Nothing. Okay...

The top 8 make up the play offs, which is fine (creating a proper finals series), and the middle 8 play off to see who makes the top div next year, which is fine (actually, it's very good). But if you know you've made it to div 1 by a miracle game or two and you're going to finish in the bottom of div 1 next year, what's the reward here? You could achieve that by winning div 2.

I don't mind this idea but it all depends on the salary cap. If the salary cap is completely paid via tv money then all this can work. If it's not you've got the same old problems of teams wiping themselves out trying to compete instead of upgrading their facilities or a big gap between the top teams who get a higher cap and the bottom teams who don't, and the muddy in the middle teams that sometimes have money and other times don't, gaining and losing marquee players depending on their final place for each season.

In tv terms I think the middle tier will generate relegation interest, the top will be intense finals play as it should be (getting most of the attention), but if you're in the bottom tier by halfway then you're playing for nothing and tv wont be interested.

But they really need tv to pay the entire cap.

 

[DINGb@T]

And why are they trying it now? Isn't Superleague the closest it's been in decades? I thought that the whole point of licensing was to upgrade facilities etc through forced competition focused on off field factors - a closed hothouse environment to give everyone a kick start. If they get rid of it now won't it let the pressure off and the more even comp come to naught?

 

[Evil Homer]

And why are they trying it now? Isn't Superleague the closest it's been in decades? I thought that the whole point of licensing was to upgrade facilities etc through forced competition focused on off field factors - a closed hothouse environment to give everyone a kick start. If they get rid of it now won't it let the pressure off and the more even comp come to naught?

Because British fans and administrators are, in general, self-defeating idiots. We were blessed with competent administration for a decade under Richard Lewis, and now it looks like it's back to the status quo of buffoons in charge.

The thing is that people within the sport, especially older fans continually create an atmosphere of panic and spread the idea that the sport is somehow 'dying' or getting worse when in reality it's as strong as ever. There are also a vocal group of typically lower-league fans who have it ingrained in themselves to condemn the RFL and criticize everything that they do, and blame them for everything that is wrong with the sport and their clubs regardless of the actual circumstance. There's been a little bit of a plateu recently in terms of growth and crowds are down this season, which gives these people more influence, and with a new RFL administration it seems as though they have panicked and decided that it's necessary to radically change everything that was put in place by the previous (competent) administrators.

Although it's worth mentioning that none of this is official, the RFL have just said they are having a 'policy review'. But Nigel Wood is a f**king idiot so it wouldn't surprise me if they do implement some ridiculous system like the one in the OP and set the sport back 20 years here. We've already seen the ridiculous scrapping of the U20's which should never have been allowed and has created major problems. And yes, that's something that the clubs voted for, but the people making those votes are typically incompetent business executives who are looking for the best immediate financial result and have no idea what's best for the sport.

 

[deal.with.it]

^^ briliant post. My thoughts exactly. Spot on

 

[WireMan]

The current set up is rubbish.

The league means nothing. You can be the champion from the bottom half of the league. Nothing for the lower teams to play for. No reason for the top teams to play.

This makes it a difficult sell and the Sky cup at the end of year renders the comp pointless.


Whether they do this two leagues of 12 or not they have to do something to bring competition back into the league structure.

No amount of sky propaganda can change the fact that the fans are not as stupid as people think. Crowds are down and the drama is down. We have a great game on the telly yesterday because it meant something.

Last week Hudds got beat by Warrington. Did anyone care?

This is not 'panic' and i don't think the sport is 'dying' The players, structure, grounds, and overall experience is the best i have ever know it. It is just the league set up that ruins it.


The u20 scrapping was lead by the clubs so had nothing to do with the RFL. Especially Wigan and Leeds. Only Saints and Warrington said it was stupid. That disaster is on Leneghan and Heathrington.

The RFL should be given more powers to make decisions to improve the game. That i agree with.

 

[roughyedspud]

But there is a system in place. Crusaders have managed to eclipse the likes of Oldham in just over a year - I'm not trying to pick on your club but that isn't the fault of the RFL or Super League clubs, it's the fault of the people running Oldham.

my thoughts on the whole system has nothing to do with who i support..

 

[nadera78]

Because British fans and administrators are, in general, self-defeating idiots. We were blessed with competent administration for a decade under Richard Lewis, and now it looks like it's back to the status quo of buffoons in charge.

The thing is that people within the sport, especially older fans continually create an atmosphere of panic and spread the idea that the sport is somehow 'dying' or getting worse when in reality it's as strong as ever. There are also a vocal group of typically lower-league fans who have it ingrained in themselves to condemn the RFL and criticize everything that they do, and blame them for everything that is wrong with the sport and their clubs regardless of the actual circumstance. There's been a little bit of a plateu recently in terms of growth and crowds are down this season, which gives these people more influence, and with a new RFL administration it seems as though they have panicked and decided that it's necessary to radically change everything that was put in place by the previous (competent) administrators.

Although it's worth mentioning that none of this is official, the RFL have just said they are having a 'policy review'. But Nigel Wood is a f**king idiot so it wouldn't surprise me if they do implement some ridiculous system like the one in the OP and set the sport back 20 years here. We've already seen the ridiculous scrapping of the U20's which should never have been allowed and has created major problems. And yes, that's something that the clubs voted for, but the people making those votes are typically incompetent business executives who are looking for the best immediate financial result and have no idea what's best for the sport.

This.

RL has always been contaminated with small mindedness. Small sport run by small men. Lewis was a fantastic break from that but now we have Wood in charge and he is being manipulated by those who can see no farther than their own interests. He's the same in a way, as he is motivated solely by keeping enough clubs on-side so that he can maintain his job and his salary.

 

[Evil Homer]

my thoughts on the whole system has nothing to do with who i support..

It was just an example.

 

[Evil Homer]

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-league/news/article/480/8710419/smith-predicts-mayhem

Good on Smith for speaking out against this idiocy.

 

[roughyedspud]

It was just an example.

i know sorry pal.....it just winds me up cos we're watching morons slowly destroy our sport

 

[WireMan]

i was discussing this in the pub last night and a question was raised about this three leagues of 8 that has been mentioned.


What happens to the points after the first round of games?

If they are lost then at east 80% have nothing to play for. This year in SL only Saints and Hull KR would of had to try after round 4.

If they are kept then the middle league will be distorted as the top teams from SL2 will have a lot more points than the lower SL1 sides?




-----

Thinking about it, i would have 4 groups of 6.

You play everyone in your group twice and everyone else once.
The playoffs are the second place teams away at the first place from a different group. Drawn at random.

The semis can be a double header

The final is the final.

Group A
Wigan
Warr
Saints
Widnes
Salford
Leigh

Group B
Leeds
Bradford
Halifax
Wakey
Fev
Cas

Group C
Hull
Hull KR
Hudds
London
Hemel
One other

Group D
Catalans
5 other frenchies.


Plenty of games, is a system that is ripped of the Americans, so is simple enough.

Obviously groups are negotiable.

 

[Bovrick]

i was discussing this in the pub last night and a question was raised about this three leagues of 8 that has been mentioned.


What happens to the points after the first round of games?

If they are lost then at east 80% have nothing to play for. This year in SL only Saints and Hull KR would of had to try after round 4.

If they are kept then the middle league will be distorted as the top teams from SL2 will have a lot more points than the lower SL1 sides?

The teams that qualify for the top 8 carry their points over, so it's never a case of securing the 8 then having nothing left to play for. They have to compete all year to hit the top.

The 4 teams that have to fight to stay in the league join the 4 fighting for promotion, all on 0 points. They effectively start again from scratch. That way they are only judged against the teams they are competing with for promotion/relegation.

That's how its worked in the other cases of this system being used.

The bottom 8 could go either way as they have nothing to play for in this system - suppose they could filter downward into lower tiers as well or something, play a different competition or whatever.

Anyway, as it stands, franchises are still the best, really hope that none of the proposals are taken at the current time. Maybe one day when we have 20+ decent teams, then this would be better than Football style P&R, but definitely not now.

 

[WireMan]

The teams that qualify for the top 8 carry their points over, so it's never a case of securing the 8 then having nothing left to play for. They have to compete all year to hit the top.

The 4 teams that have to fight to stay in the league join the 4 fighting for promotion, all on 0 points. They effectively start again from scratch. That way they are only judged against the teams they are competing with for promotion/relegation.

That's how its worked in the other cases of this system being used.

The bottom 8 could go either way as they have nothing to play for in this system - suppose they could filter downward into lower tiers as well or something, play a different competition or whatever.

Anyway, as it stands, franchises are still the best, really hope that none of the proposals are taken at the current time. Maybe one day when we have 20+ decent teams, then this would be better than Football style P&R, but definitely not now.

Cheers.

That is what we came up with in the pub. The problem is out of the 12 top teams you are going to know at least 2 who are not going to make it intot he top 8. These teams are going to be lesser supported sides.

So the teams that need more fans are going to have more meaningless games. Which won't help at all!

I agree that Franchises have to stay for a bit. Teams are getting better and the talent pool is deeper. So lets just roll with it for a few more seasons until more teams get better.