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Round 21 v Roosters

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,430
Our pack could in fact be Grant, Kingston, Latimore, Newton, Ciraldo, Simpkins. With a bench of Anderson, Segs, Masoe and Smith/Austin.. worst pack I can remember in the NRL and if the Cowboys lose next week they should all be sacked.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,239
In it until half.

Having no Docker and Manu for the second half really hurt and it showed in our level of physical play which was greatly diminished.

We're just running out of troops unfortunately and ultimately I don't think we have 6-7 fully healthy forwards that are eligible.

We have guys like Cartwright who we'd love to put up but simply can't.

Overall we've performed above expectations this year and next year we have a much improved roster and better depth imo.

Guys like Smith, Newton, Ciraldo are gone and not taking up top 25 spots.

We can only hope McKendry might be fit otherwise it's going to be another shit game next week.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,863
rem286 your assessment is not too far off (Grant has frustrated the hell out of me this year. He has been average far too many times), but it lacks context. Our players fall into three categories:

Fill ins - they are trying to fill the shoes of an established first grader who is injured. They are not on big money and were brought to provide depth. Phil Gould described them as journeyman. Unfortunately, with all the injuries we have they are being asked to play in a team of fill ins and rookies. Why criticise someone like Ciraldo because he is not as good as McKendry or Grant? His contract will reflect that and its not his fault he keeps getting picked because of the injuries. Masoe, Ciraldo, Latimore and Newton all fit in this category;

Rookies - We have a few players who are still learning the game. Moylan has played a handful of games and whilst I agree with your assessment it needs to be said that considering his experience, he has done a good job in a difficult position and he will improve. Isaac John and Adam Docker have not even played 20 games in the NRL yet, Simpkins has played 22 games, Mansour 27 games. Rookies deserve a bit of slack, because..well , they are rookies. Most importantly, they have the potential to improve with experience;

First Graders - they are on good contracts , have enough experience and need to deliver. The only point worth making here is that if you are a first grade back and your pack is nearly entirely made up of rookies and fill ins, then your are unlikely to have much chance of doing anything whilst your forwards are being smashed. I think that pretty much sums up the last few weeks. That aside, no excuses some of the team have struggled, Tim Grant being one of them. I have heard it said that he was our best forward and made the most metres. That may be true, but unlike Ciraldo, whom I expect to be crap because he is a journeyman and paid accordingly, Grant is on mega dollars and wants to be a rep player. He is not meeting that standard in my opinion and has been disappointing.

So, we have five rookies and four fill ins making nine out of seventeen players. I shudder to think what happens next week when we are without Manu and Docker. I may even have a chance of a game.

You make a comment about Cleary needing to perform miracles but he shouldn't have to. We have three first grade props to come back (McKendry, Kite and Plum), a new halfback, a first grade five eighth (Coote), a new lock(Taylor), and another bunch of rookies with great potential in Smith, Peachey, Spence and Naquiama. The squad then becomes five rookies and no fill ins. It is virtually a whole new team.
 
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Graftonpanther

Juniors
Messages
204
Even though we have faltered the last few rounds, overall I am happy with the improvement this year.

Lets not forget we were tipped by many to run last by a mile, including lots of Panthers supporters.

Next year will be even better once we get rid of some more deadwood.

The blooding of some youngsters will benefit us from the get go next year and the injection of some good experienced first graders and some exciting young talent will improve us as well imo.

Still hopefully a couple of wins to go this year, lets not forget we are playing teams that were expected to be challengers for the Top 8 this year and we were tipped to come last with our roster, so these losses are not really unexpected.

As I said overall I am not happy with the recent losses but in the year as a whole the improvement is good.
 
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rem286

Juniors
Messages
172
Even full strength next year we will not be contenders. Yes they should be pushing the top 8 but still will not be serious contenders. Something we lack that the good teams have - Star Quality. We have none at the moment and Gus knows it, hence chasing the big guns that were off contract. Look at the real good teams, they have at least 2-3 real top quality players in the squad, a handful of good players, some solid first graders and unless you are Storm or Rorters you have to have some average players to meet the cap. Unfortunately we have no top quality players, a couple of good players and most of our team are solid players but we have a fair share of average players. No use saying "but if we were fully fit" because we never are. The thing I have noticed about our team and supporters over the last 6-7 years is attitude. Poor attitude from a lot of players (which I admit has improved in Ivans time) and the excuse making attitude of the fans. I tell it like it is. Crap at the moment and has been for a while. Problem is, unless we have our own stars come through, none of the others WANT to play for Penrith. The crap that has gone down over the last few seasons has turned them off.
 

what ever

Juniors
Messages
104
And the negative attitude continues!!! Yes we have had stars (Jennings, Lewis, Cootes etc) - did that make a different in the last 6-7 years?

I say go Ivan you have done us proud this year and so have the Rookies. But no lets be negative.
 
Messages
17,744
That's the happiest I've ever been watching Penrith lose by 30+

Roosters first try came from a Tim Grant "high" tackle
Second SKD dropped the ball in the set before
The third Walsh was pushed in the back......the peaheart would never of made the tackle but 9/10 the video ref calls obstruction.
We were right in the game till we lost Docker and Manu. The Roosters were always going to win this game but I thought we tried very hard
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
But no lets be negative.

Last 3 games points for 30 against 114. Whether it's negative or not it's the truth.

The areas we struggle in even our recruits don't fix think we will still be better but how better is the question.

Kids aren't as good in NSW Cup as NYC NRL is even bigger jump still lack a hard running centre. No offloads. Forwards running good angles.
Slow down play the balls against us.
Halves John good in defence terrible in attack. Coote the opposite.

the areas of promise John & Segeyaro for next has gone with the poor form of late.
 

Puntastic

Juniors
Messages
993
That's the happiest I've ever been watching Penrith lose by 30+

Roosters first try came from a Tim Grant "high" tackle
Second SKD dropped the ball in the set before
The third Walsh was pushed in the back......the peaheart would never of made the tackle but 9/10 the video ref calls obstruction.
We were right in the game till we lost Docker and Manu. The Roosters were always going to win this game but I thought we tried very hard

Agree completely.

Slow down play the balls against us.

This is a big area area we need to address. The guys look scared to push the envelope with the referees where other clubs feel far more comfortable. Not sure why, but last night we were rolling off tackles about twice as quickly as the opposition. It's taking a toll.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,239
Even full strength next year we will not be contenders. Yes they should be pushing the top 8 but still will not be serious contenders. Something we lack that the good teams have - Star Quality. We have none at the moment and Gus knows it, hence chasing the big guns that were off contract. Look at the real good teams, they have at least 2-3 real top quality players in the squad, a handful of good players, some solid first graders and unless you are Storm or Rorters you have to have some average players to meet the cap. Unfortunately we have no top quality players, a couple of good players and most of our team are solid players but we have a fair share of average players. No use saying "but if we were fully fit" because we never are. The thing I have noticed about our team and supporters over the last 6-7 years is attitude. Poor attitude from a lot of players (which I admit has improved in Ivans time) and the excuse making attitude of the fans. I tell it like it is. Crap at the moment and has been for a while. Problem is, unless we have our own stars come through, none of the others WANT to play for Penrith. The crap that has gone down over the last few seasons has turned them off.

We are a much better team next year, there is no doubt. We should be from 5-8 at a minimum.

We have a stack of great juniors coming through who HAVE the "star" quality such as Bryce Cartwright and DWZ among others who have already been re-signed.

As for the "attitude"...I believe the opposite regarding some of our fans. Fans who despite having everyone in Rugby League tip our team to finish last haven't acknowledged the team has performed well above expectations despite a crippling injury toll.

Such adversity would cripple any team yet if other teams suggest that is a reason it is "valid" but when we say it, it's an "excuse".

As a whole we've discovered some great talent again this year and we now know what we have in the pipeline for future years.

Despite the last three weeks we've seen an immense improvement in the attitude of the team and when even at remote strength we've been at the very least competitive if not showing flashes of a top 8 quality team.

Next year will only be an improvement. But then again if it is an improvement...what on earth would we write about in threads....
 
Messages
1,186
That's the happiest I've ever been watching Penrith lose by 30+

Roosters first try came from a Tim Grant "high" tackle
Second SKD dropped the ball in the set before
The third Walsh was pushed in the back......the peaheart would never of made the tackle but 9/10 the video ref calls obstruction.
We were right in the game till we lost Docker and Manu. The Roosters were always going to win this game but I thought we tried very hard

1. Your first try came from an even more dubious penalty.
2. Won't disagree with you there. Didn't see it clearly.
3. The video refs have been using a lot more common sense. That was a try any day of the weeek
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
We are a much better team next year, there is no doubt.

Certain areas we will be yes but most of the gaps from this year are still there.

Lack of backs to break the line for starters. Still have Kingston still have suspect halves. Though no Newton or Ciraldo is something. Though we lack the forward able to run in gaps or back across the grain.

As for injuries they have an affect on certain things. No Tighe or Roberts no speed in the backs of course.

They all train together all do the same drill so no excuse for the poor reads or soft tackle attempts we have seen especially for the penalties.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Also on the kids. Can't see them getting much involvement next season

DWZ on the wing in NYC not getting any ball
Jennings on the wing in NSW Cup can't get more then a month on the field.
Cartwright going decent but hardly setting the world on fire.
Moss ostieo pubis will loss most of the off season getting operated on.
 

what ever

Juniors
Messages
104
Last 3 games points for 30 against 114. Whether it's negative or not it's the truth.

The areas we struggle in even our recruits don't fix think we will still be better but how better is the question.

Kids aren't as good in NSW Cup as NYC NRL is even bigger jump still lack a hard running centre. No offloads. Forwards running good angles.
Slow down play the balls against us.
Halves John good in defence terrible in attack. Coote the opposite.

the areas of promise John & Segeyaro for next has gone with the poor form of late.



yet when he started was good in attack and poor on defence. Maybe like alot of players that are still learning the skills. These players and Moylan with more confidence and NRL games will only get better.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
13,570
Good to see Gould acknowledge they only had to run a decoy and throw a wide ball to have our defence completely confused. Terrible to hear him say the best defence against that is to stop them getting on our line. I hope that's not what Cleary is telling the players.
 
Messages
17,744
It's hard to make defensive combinations when every week we have different players defending next to each other. I know some of the injuries can't be helped but Ron Palmer has to go imo
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
[/B]
yet when he started was good in attack and poor on defence. Maybe like alot of players that are still learning the skills. These players and Moylan with more confidence and NRL games will only get better.

Signed a new deal he lost the determination not the 1st time a played has done it won't be the last.

I am a fan of him wanted us to re-sign him but needs the determination back
 

murraymob

Coach
Messages
10,069
Gould did make a good point on moylan he still has a kids body and will benifit from a good off season in the gym.He hasnt had that as yet .Definatly will help him.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
It's hard to make defensive combinations when every week we have different players defending next to each other.

I don't disagree though early on poor selections rather then injuries were the problem we still struggled. Makes me think it's a squad wide problem
 
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