SBW, Benji, Falou and Sam Burgess

[magpie4ever]

]And yet he is going to get Aussie citizenship [/B]and went to the effort of bringing all of his brothers and especially mother to sydney to live in what seems to be a permanent move

He wants a pay rise at souths that's my bet

You need to stop listening to the Footy Show jokes. Sam has always indicated he is a pommy and will always be one.

 

[russ13]

I don't even like Union but people have to get perspective. Besides NSW, Queensland, PNG and half a dozen northern English towns, Union is biggest in almost every other part of the world. It's a religion in NZ, its bigger in most islands, in Japan, in Africa, in most of England. League is many years away from competing with that if the primary concern of a player is international prestige.

Crap - union I still a minor sport on the world stage.

It's only a major sport in one - New Zealand & they have barely 4 million population. In the northern hemisphere union only has 2 countries with full-time professional leagues. A lot of their pro clubs are propped up by sugar daddies & wouldn't exist without them.

 

[magpie4ever]

The problem here is this stupid misconception that it's all about money...

Sure money is a massive part of it... But ambition is what will ultimately drive someone.

Why is it that all the code hoppers we're talking about here are guys unable to play origin.

(Folau of course doesn't count as he tried to come back to RL but the NRL f**ked that up)

These guys are being told year in, year out that origin is the pinnacle of the sport... Yet because they don't come from the right country they are unable to test themselves at that level.

International football has been downgraded to such a level that it doesn't become a factor.

If your kiwi... And you have established yourself as a star in the NRL... RU would be appealing because the money is better, the exposure is higher, the change will be appealing...

And most of all... Your not blocked from competing at the so called pinnacle.

The answer here isn't to de-power origin.. That will just make it appealing to origin players.

They need to make playing for your country more appealing. More meaningful tests. More exposure and real promotion of the international game.

They need a whole change of mindset... Cut the bullshit idea that origin is the pinnacle. Openly promote test football as the highest level of the game.

Agree, but while the ESL is a summer sport (our winter), it will never be to the standard of origin. The old fashion tours of England and France (and vice versa) were the pinnacle of a league player's career.

 

[typicalfan]

Yet the NRL is by far the highest standard domestic competition of either code.

 

[magpie4ever]

Crap - union I still a minor sport on the world stage.

It's only a major sport in one - New Zealand & they have barely 4 million population. In the northern hemisphere union only has 2 countries with full-time professional leagues. A lot of their pro clubs are propped up by sugar daddies & wouldn't exist without them.

You a facts denier.

Anyone that denies union is not a larger world sport (by many muliples) than league is denying the earth is round.

If union is a minor sport than league is the size of a plankton in the world of sport.

 

[magpie4ever]

Yet the NRL is by far the highest standard domestic competition of either code.

Don't know the details of the european (english) domestic union comp but I would say you are right.

 

[WaznTheGreat]

This is disappointing,Sam Burgess is one of the best in the NRL

 

[Loudstrat]

What the NRL needs is an 8 team elite city-based comp - think the A-League or BBL or Netball.

Half the teams, twice the player pay.

:lol:

Thank you John Ribot. It was a shit idea 20 years ago. Unless you want to make Dyaln Farrel a household nae in Mongolia.

Players are seeing at Sonny making big NRL bucks, Boxing bucks and union bucks as well as being celebrated for being a multi sport athlete and thinking "why not me".

If players want to come and go from league to rugby whatever, but lets not bend over backwards just to allow a star to box and play rugby around the league season again, of course other players will look at that and get ideas, the game is bigger then any one player, we should keep our integrity and not make it easy for these $$$ chasers.

Very well put. It one thing to accept Wendell and Lote back late in their careers, quite another to let this twat back. Yes, you can box - whenever you like. No, you dont have to play for NZ if you dont really want to. Yes, you can change your mind at the last minute. No, we wont mention the bus driver. Yes, we will have Channel 9 fawn all over you, even if Boyd Cordner gets more Dally M points.

Same with Burgess. Yes, bring the whole family, even if they are hacks. Bring Mum too. We'll even interview you and ignore the farewell speech of Benji Marshall.

Meanwhile, Jonathon Thurston single handedly drags the carcase of North Queensland around every weekend, and he's an afterthought.

I'd agree that they're poor value in terms of the player's ability relative to the amount they get paid, but a Union poaching's value wouldn't just be in their playing ability, it'd also be the promotional value you can get from them, and the value of the damage done to Union by getting them to leave. You'd also get fans of that player, who might otherwise ignore RL, give RL a shot to watch them play. If they're a huge Union name, there'd no doubt be a lot of curiosity as to how they'd go in RL.

How any NRL fans followed Folau over to GWS? FFS for half their games their crowds were all cardboard cutouts!

Doesn't seem to matter. Union is more than just super rugby.

A few boring internationals and Shute Shield. Wow.

Look guys - get this.

Folau never ever re-signed with anyone. He was gone the second he was offered Hayne's massive GWS contract offer. And he's a winger - no different to losing Lote or Wendell.

Benji's best year was 95. He gradually lost consistency and never dominated at rep level. He really began the nosedive around 2010-11. He lost his test spot, and last year was about as good as Bwaith.

SBW was never coming back for anything more than a cameo. Its Leagues fault, specifically C9, Politis and Dave Smith, that has built him up to be something irreplaceable

Sam Burgess, in all honesty, is merely another Kevin Ward. Moreley stands as the standout Pom of the post Super League era, with Gareth Ellis behind him. WHatever talent Burgess has, he has liabilities - high mistake rate and a thug. Take away all the hooplah and he's be thought of below JWH.

What we are worried about is losing profile, not talent.

 

[hutch]

Loudstrat benji won the golden boot in 2010 as the worlds best player and 2011 was his best year as a player. As for burgess, he is a fantastic footballer and damn important to England. These players are not just replaceable!

You are right about profile though. Why should we let our players increase another sports profile while making us look like a feeder competition as a sport.

 

[magpie4ever]

Thank you John Ribot. It was a shit idea 20 years ago. Unless you want to make Dyaln Farrel a household nae in Mongolia.


Very well put. It one thing to accept Wendell and Lote back late in their careers, quite another to let this twat back. Yes, you can box - whenever you like. No, you dont have to play for NZ if you dont really want to. Yes, you can change your mind at the last minute. No, we wont mention the bus driver. Yes, we will have Channel 9 fawn all over you, even if Boyd Cordner gets more Dally M points.

Same with Burgess. Yes, bring the whole family, even if they are hacks. Bring Mum too. We'll even interview you and ignore the farewell speech of Benji Marshall.

Meanwhile, Jonathon Thurston single handedly drags the carcase of North Queensland around every weekend, and he's an afterthought.


How any NRL fans followed Folau over to GWS? FFS for half their games their crowds were all cardboard cutouts!


A few boring internationals and Shute Shield. Wow.

Look guys - get this.

Folau never ever re-signed with anyone. He was gone the second he was offered Hayne's massive GWS contract offer. And he's a winger - no different to losing Lote or Wendell.

Benji's best year was 95. He gradually lost consistency and never dominated at rep level. He really began the nosedive around 2010-11. He lost his test spot, and last year was about as good as Bwaith.

SBW was never coming back for anything more than a cameo. Its Leagues fault, specifically C9, Politis and Dave Smith, that has built him up to be something irreplaceable

Sam Burgess, in all honesty, is merely another Kevin Ward. Moreley stands as the standout Pom of the post Super League era, with Gareth Ellis behind him. WHatever talent Burgess has, he has liabilities - high mistake rate and a thug. Take away all the hooplah and he's be thought of below JWH.

What we are worried about is losing profile, not talent.

Think you meant 2005.;-) Unless you seen him play as a 9 or 10 year old.

 

[Kurt Angle]

In 1908 we said rugby players deserve to be paid, and that RL produces better players.

In 2013, even RU believe us.

Burgess may get a bigger pay cheque for 2-3 years.

However he has damaged a shitload of goodwill that would underlie his money making capacity after football.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Loudstrat benji won the golden boot in 2010 as the worlds best player and 2011 was his best year as a player. As for burgess, he is a fantastic footballer and damn important to England. These players are not just replaceable!

You are right about profile though. Why should we let our players increase another sports profile while making us look like a feeder competition as a sport.

Hmm, yes and awards judges always pick the best player don't they? :roll:

For signing with another code, I doubt if a ban on that player from returning to the code would stand up in court for professional players. I can just hear the argument mentioning "restraint of trade". Sad, but true.

Further, we may be losing 1 player. Sorry, but so what. 1 player out of what 300 odd? He is high profile and talented, yes, but he is 1 player. Our code is not going to fall over. Fact is that Souths could stop him cold by refusing to release him. They can't force him to play for them for his entire remaining contract period but they sure as hell could stop him playing anything else during that time.

 

[magpie4ever]

In 1908 we said rugby players deserve to be paid, and that RL produces better players.

In 2013, even RU believe us.

Burgess may get a bigger pay cheque for 2-3 years.

However he has damaged a shitload of goodwill that would underlie his money making capacity after football.

Doubt that would be the case in Pommyland. FFS that is where he is from and he was always going to go home.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Burgess will likely make the England RU squad.. as a back.

He will be the 7th former rugby league player, in the wider squad in the backs.

Ford, Farrell, Myler, Ashton, Eastmond, Burrell... Burgess

Considering there are what...12... 13 times as many RU players, yet RL players are walking into the side, will soon point out that players will need to be a RL junior to player for either code at a national level.

Since the last buying spree of RL players 10 years ago, we've had huge increases in money and our best ever world cup.

Yes, we will likely lose a few more player for a while to come.

No, we shouldn't forget... our attitudes should pretty much kill Sam Burgess ever have a post-football media career now.

As we've seen with John Muggleton, the RU types are still fighting a 200 year class war in their head, otherwise there'd be one unified code with no scrums or rucks.

We've won the war, players get paid, it's increasingly going to be one playing style resembling some closer to RL than RU. All that is left now is fighting over who runs it.

 

[reanimate]

How any NRL fans followed Folau over to GWS? FFS for half their games their crowds were all cardboard cutouts!

I answered that here- I think a high profile Union to League convert would be a much more successful marketing exercise than the AFL's money wasting. Union and League are similar games, League's just a much faster, much more interesting and all round better product, getting people who usually only watch Union to give RL a shot would be far more successful in getting them interested in RL than trying to get people who are used to one of the Rugby codes to get interested in that fumbling abortion of a 'sport' from Victoria.

I.e. Rugby League is a better form of Rugby than what Unionites watch regularly, by luring them into watching RL by converting a few of their best players, you're far more likely to get some of them becoming regular fans of our Rugby code as opposed to the AFL trying this with their attempts, as AFL is a completely different, terrible sport that isn't going to be attractive to fans of either Rugby code.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Why would we want a union convert? To "get them back"

To get one would make them amongst the highest paid players in the game, without even earning it.

Remember when we got Garrick Morgan? He was paid more than Glen Lazarus and about the same as Ian Roberts.

All we will ever do is piss off the 2nd best players of each team.

Let them burn through their cash, let them piss off their own players.

Our income one day will exceed everyone elses.. by keep doing what we are doing right now.

 

[_Johnsy]

Why is it that all the code hoppers we're talking about here are guys unable to play origin.

Lote, Wendell, Matt Rogers, K hunt & Ryan Cross all say hi.

It's 2 players FFS.

One interesting point, under the old origin eligibility rules SBW could have been chosen to represent NSW. U/16 17 18 NSW rep player.

 

[Kurt Angle]

What's more telling is that all the players who switched are not so much (incorrectly stated) as unable to make origin...

but most come from teams that went to superleague.

Sailor, Tuquiri, Thorn, Folau, Hunt - Broncos.
Rogers, McGoldrick - Sharks
SBW - Bulldogs

Is it perhaps these clubs breed a scummy, mercenary culture, and some of their players become scummy and mercenary enough to join rah-rah?

 

[Ulysseus]

NRL not doing nearly rough to keep our players in the game. SBW and Sam are top 10 players in the NRL and Folau was about that while he was here

They need to work out far bigger rep payments or something because with the salary cap it can't be expected for clubs to compete with the likes of NZ and UK rugby

Folau was good for jumping, catching, running hard when no one was in front of him or when close to the line.
Honestly cannot recall him helping get the ball out from dummy half to give forwards a rest etc ever.

 

[reanimate]

Why would we want a union convert? To "get them back"

To get one would make them amongst the highest paid players in the game, without even earning it.

Remember when we got Garrick Morgan? He was paid more than Glen Lazarus and about the same as Ian Roberts.

All we will ever do is piss off the 2nd best players of each team.

Let them burn through their cash, let them piss off their own players.

Our income one day will exceed everyone elses.. by keep doing what we are doing right now.

Obviously you'd have to do extensive RL skills tests before signing them to a deal to attempt to avoid another Garrick Morgan, but it'd be a great promo tool in the more Union dominated countries like NZ. Anything that could get people to try watching RL is a good thing, we have the better code to watch, we just have to draw attention to it and get the people who are biased against RL without really knowing why to watch it regularly- having one of the best All Blacks running around for the Warriors could be a good tool to achieve that.