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18 teams vying for Super League licenses

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
deluded pom? said:
South London Storm don't even play at the New River, that's the home of the London Skolars :roll: I would assume they'd play at the Stoop and the 'Quins would "absorb" the Storm's junior setup.

I'd probably see it a little bit the other way. The merged club playing under the Storm name, with their existing (and growing) junior set up, but with the Quins first team, academy and staff. Home ground to be determined!
 

Kurt Angle

First Grade
Messages
9,666
OK, let's go the other way around.. not talking about putting the Storm in SL.

But I'd say right now you have two standout RL 'nurseries' so to speak.. Skolars and Storm.

Now by getting young kids and introducing them to the GG, the idea is they can progress as far as their talent takes them, whether than NL, SL or a GB/England jersey.

Do Skolar and Storm recognise that their current financial and structural limitations means they can only take a developing junior so far, and the next step could/should be in the hands of the Quins ?

Does this relationship exist?.. Looking at your response, it looks like it may not have existed, but will no will Paul Brown running Quins (Is a born and bred londoner?)

I mean as you stated, 5 local clubs feed the storm, and perhaps the Storm and Skolars see themselves and 2 that feed quins. A 3-tiered pyramid.

I think it is important to have this point of the pyramid recognised as something to support.

Kids native to london.. if you know them from the Storm... do they look at the GB RL team and see that as a goal ? If so, they must look at a SL team as a step in that progression.

Do Quins feed them that emotional attachment? Or they prefer Wigan and the like.. or they rally don't care who they play SL for, just as long as it's SL?
 
Messages
10,970
deluded pom? said:
South London Storm don't even play at the New River, that's the home of the London Skolars :roll: I would assume they'd play at the Stoop and the 'Quins would "absorb" the Storm's junior setup.

yeah, my mistake
 
Messages
10,970
nadera78 said:
Blimey, this could be a long answer! Because the London/Quins club has never had a settled home and has continually shifted from one part of town to another it has never really been able to lay down roots and build a community of fans in one particular location. There has never been a feeling that "this is my club, a club for life." Also a hand-to-mouth existence makes it difficult to spend the required amount of time and money on building that community link through schools development, etc. It takes time and effort for people to gain a sense of ownership of something, but the club has never really had the chance to do that.

One of the consequences is that there are fans all around London, and pockets of development work that have been built on or sustained by local community clubs. But there has never really been a ground zero if you like, an area that was the centre of development work. I personally don't watch Harlequins, it's too heavily rah-rah associated for me. I go and watch the Skolars sometimes but it's a two hour journey from my house the the ground, which incidentally is one of the problems for RL in London, it's too big and unweildy for one RL club to lay calim to, there is no commonality between people from different parts of town. For example, I'm a west Londoner, and until I met my girlfriend four years ago had only been south of the river a couple of times. Now, after four years, I've been there a million times but I still make jokes about needing my passport and jabs.


In north London, the London Skolars are doing it all from the bottom upwards. They are working hard to get a decent team on the field and doing the hard work in schools, colleges, etc. It's a long term game plan, but they have guys running the club that have a background in the City and they can see the value of doing it this way. I tend to think they will be successful, but it will take a long time.


The Storm are similar in a way, although they have come from a different angle. A few years back they moved from playing in the RL Conference (a comp for non-heartland teams) into the new NL3. But after one year they pulled out, which caused a few problems at the club and arguments. Some wanted to build and go for the big time, others (led by Paul Brown, the new Quins CEO) reckoned it was better to spend that money on the kids and developing the roots. This has proved to be a blessing, because they now have schools work feeding into five local clubs, who in turn feed into the Storm. And this is set to expand in the coming years.

Now, the Storm are by no means ready to enter a team in ESL at the moment, but I think the game is at a tipping point. We are on the verge of seeing kids who have grown up with RL becoming adults, and hopefully continuing to play RL. This is how sustainable clubs are built. The game finally seems to be building a collection of clubs and development programmes in one locale; south London. Now, Quins have a hard core of 3,500 who follow them all over town, if, in say, five years time they were to merge with the Storm they would bring that group of fans with them, add to that the fact that Souths are building a real RL community, then you perhaps have the basis of a sustainable professional club.

It's hypothetical, but I can certainly see it as a possibility.

good post
 

Mr. Fahrenheit

Referee
Messages
22,132
Dally, you've spelt your name wrong in your sig.

10-15 years down the track do you think there is a possibility for 2 London franchises, just to create a bit of a rivalry (derby) and to increase media coverage? You may say that there needs to be that level of support first, other will say if you build it they will come. Chicken or egg theory really, but my question is that will it be feasable in 10-15 years?
 
Messages
10,970
Mr. Fahrenheit said:
Dally, you've spelt your name wrong in your sig.

10-15 years down the track do you think there is a possibility for 2 London franchises, just to create a bit of a rivalry (derby) and to increase media coverage? You may say that there needs to be that level of support first, other will say if you build it they will come. Chicken or egg theory really, but my question is that will it be feasable in 10-15 years?

ta.

on the 2nd paragraph, richard lewis has said hed like to have a second team so it depends on how fast skolars can develop.

theres talk that Skolars could join up with a union club and play at the new ground being built for the olympics but which will have a 25,000 capacity after the games
 
Messages
10,970
Mr. Fahrenheit said:
Whats with the obsession of joining up with RU clubs? Does the RFL see this as the only viable option?

not necessarily.

its hard to find grounds in london though.

london shared with 3 or more soccer clubs who basically milked them through ground rentals so that they couldnt invest in other stuff.

quins did that first time too, but this time its different. they dont pay ground rent, and get to keep the bar takings as well.

thats very different to the experience at the soccer clubs

Skolars as ohters have said are doing it on their own and are semi pro. many poms are surprised that skolars have been able to get so far and have made the semi pro ranks and are a competitive side. crowds are under 1000 though.

skolars dont necearrily have to share with a union club. its just that the idea of year round rugby and the ground being used year round is quite attractive. though the crowds have shown that one code generally dominates.

for leeds its RL, for quins its union.
 

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
Kurt Angle said:
Do Skolar and Storm recognise that their current financial and structural limitations means they can only take a developing junior so far, and the next step could/should be in the hands of the Quins ?

Does this relationship exist?.. Looking at your response, it looks like it may not have existed, but will no will Paul Brown running Quins (Is a born and bred londoner?)

I mean as you stated, 5 local clubs feed the storm, and perhaps the Storm and Skolars see themselves and 2 that feed quins. A 3-tiered pyramid.

Kids native to london.. if you know them from the Storm... do they look at the GB RL team and see that as a goal ? If so, they must look at a SL team as a step in that progression.

Do Quins feed them that emotional attachment? Or they prefer Wigan and the like.. or they rally don't care who they play SL for, just as long as it's SL?

Yes, I think both Skolars and Storm do see themselves as development tools, and are always delighted when kids are signed on to the Quins Academy, or push on to play as seniors with Quins or any other pro club. It's important to recognise that the game is not yet at saturation point, but there is a sense of being very close to making a serious breakthrough with the juniors and amateur game.

Quins/London have always been in a difficult position with bringing in local kids. In the north, kids not only play RL but are immersed in the game from a young age, it builds a real and full understanding of the game. Down here, kids have played RL but they have never had the same reference points, so their development has always been delayed. They tend to take longer to fully reach their potential. Quins/London have not always been prepared to wait for this to happen, particularly (for my money ayway) when Tony Rea was involved at the club. This appears to be changing.

IIRC Brown is an Aussie, but he's lived her for a long time so we'll let him off!

It's important to recognise that there are an awful lot of RL fans in London that don't follow Quins. Northerners who support their home town teams, locals who won't/can't travel a couple of hours to a game, those who feel no attraction to Quins for various reasons. The viewing figures fromSky show 50% of their audience is from the south. That's a lot of people Quins have been unable to tap into. And GB games have always got good crowds down here, when promoted that is. The RLWC in 2000 saw 16,000 people at the England semi-final, yet 33,000 turned out for the game in London (2/3 of whom were locals).

I usually think that kids playing a 'new' sport like RL aren't that fussed about the clubs at the top end, they just want to play the game.
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
The Times said:
Super League set for expansion as TV deals bring brighter future

Christopher Irvine
November 27, 2007

Extended three-year television deals with Sky Sports and the BBC announced yesterday by the RFL - worth at least £50 million - will ensure that the engage Super League is expanded from 12 to 14 clubs under a new franchise system from 2009.

The separate agreements cover the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons, with the BBC securing live international rights for the first time since the 2000 World Cup to screen one England match and a second international game per season. That is in addition to the Carnegie Challenge Cup, with the corporation looking to introduce later kick-off times for live Saturday ties to attract bigger audiences from next season.

The 12 existing clubs approved the modest increased funding of about £900,000 per club per season from £800,000, although they instructed the RFL to work out a more precise distribution over the three years of the agreements, taking into account the needs of two additional clubs in a ring-fenced competition for the duration of the lengthened Super League deal.

A sweetener for Cooperative National League clubs, who after 2008 will have no entry to the elite division until a "window" for one progressive club opens in 2012, is separate funding by Sky for showing 29 lower-division matches, for which the smaller clubs received nothing last season.

The combined packages compare favourably with the present five-year agreements for £63 million television revenues for all competitions, with an estimated 30 per cent annual rise to more than £16 million under the revised three-year terms.

"The negotiations have resulted in a healthy revenue increase, thus giving us a great platform to continue our successful growth and development," Richard Lewis, the RFL executive chairman, said. "The contracts also ensure stability and create the opportunity to invest in the National Leagues and the community game. The outcome clearly demonstrates that rugby league is a highly prized and valuable broadcast property followed by millions of viewers on a regular basis."

Vic Wakeling, the managing director of Sky Sports, said: "We believe the popularity of Super League will grow over the next few years and we are delighted that this new deal gives us more live games [up to 70] than ever before."

With television deals agreed, the competition for places steps up, with Bridgend-based Celtic Crusaders, Toulouse, Salford City Reds, Widnes Vikings and possibly Featherstone Rovers joining the Super League clubs in submitting franchise applications, with the composition of the 2009 competition to be determined by next July.

The onus is on clubs sorting out their finances and fulfilling criteria. The irony is that St Helens, the most successful club in the 12-year Super League era, announced yesterday that they lost £250,000 during their all-conquering 2006 season. A move away from dilapidated Knowsley Road to a new stadium was described by Eamonn McManus, the chairman, as the only sure resolution to the club's long-term future financial stability.

McManus admitted to not enough control being given to costs last year, but he put the emphasis on the local planning authority approving plans for an 18,000-capacity stadium at a derelict glassworks. "Staying at Knowsley Road does put the club at a continuing financial and commercial disadvantage" he said. "It is imperative to the future that the application is successful and goes through smoothly within a reasonably quick timeframe. Otherwise the financial constraints, which Knowsley Road imposes, will become increasingly burdensome and more difficult to manage."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/rugby_league/article2951155.ece
 

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