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18th club, whose next?

Colk

Juniors
Messages
331
What's personal about it? Its just facts.. nearly every 2 out of 3 posts by you are just piling shìt on PVL or the nrl admin, expansion was no better with Greenberg in charge.. seriously the whinge meter is at a all time high when i read your posts.. RL has had many changes since i started watching it, and this is the closest to the golden era that was the Winfield cup in the 80/90s
Notwithstanding the talk about expansion, the quality of the competition was very ordinary last year and a lot of it is squarely at his feet. It was a lot better about 10-15 years ago so there are a lot of things that need to be fixed before we pump up his tyres too much
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,129
Notwithstanding the talk about expansion, the quality of the competition was very ordinary last year and a lot of it is squarely at his feet. It was a lot better about 10-15 years ago so there are a lot of things that need to be fixed before we pump up his tyres too much
So its his job to fix 25 years of bad management, or can he just skate by and do sweet fk all like john grant did... like seriously, you all eat up the bad media and tycoon beatem ups... he is a blunt dictator yes, but leaders lead, and its sport admin, not a country, so unless he hasn't broken any laws, we are extremely luckly to have any league playing.. Greenberg left a huge mess and a game built on the wrestle, with no expansion in sight...
As for the competitions standard, that is never a comparison to any era, depending on what/how you enjoy your league.. you want a close match, well rosters have to be like for like for that to happen, Melbourne vs Penrith were nail biters, but a Melbourne vs Cowboys, just shows how bad clubs have gotten in recruiting and retention and stepping away from cultivating NRL juniors... this isn't the rule changes or PVLs fault, just a coincident since the demise of the under20s comp slowly filtering thru the years and managers pushing average NRL standard players around like pin balls, the rules aren't a catalyst to aaron woods missing tackles, yet he can go from club to club and earn good coin to continue missing tackles regardless of the rules
 
Last edited:

Colk

Juniors
Messages
331
I didn’t say that I was supportive of previous management and it is not an automatic conclusion one should make from my somewhat tepid reaction or thoughts on V’landys. Indeed those feelings can be quite mutually exclusive.

Sure he has done some very good things but sometimes his style is not necessarily a positive. For example, the high tackle situation is a complete mismanagement and the six again was and is a massive overreach - a solution looking for a problem.

Even if you wanted to bring in more fatigue and change the game - I thought the game wasn’t in such a perilous state in terms of product but notwithstanding - you could have just reduced the amount of interchanges over a couple of years. If you wanted to reduce the wrestle you could have had the referees just clamp down on it hard. Instead he created a new rule which wasn’t trialled or tested and has had mostly a few notably negative effects

1. Field position being the biggest consideration rather than an offence itself. So for example teams are just going to stand offside and slow the play down when they have the opposition down inside their own 20m as there is no disincentive

2. You have very little oversight on refereeing decisions. People may argue that means less time concerning ourselves about decisions but that is not necessarily a good thing. Nobody knows what the six again is for most of the time.

3. Most importantly once you change the style of the game, you then change the type of athlete playing the game and the type of roster you need to create. That, in of itself may not be a bad thing but it needs to be planned and measured over a longer timeframe. Bigger athletes and wrestling are just byproducts of the evolution of the game over the past 20 years or so. By trying to change that overnight and in a time when depth is already tested by COVID-19, you have essentially eliminated a huge amount of players from the game without the clubs and systems being able to cope with that change. Again that change isn’t necessarily a bad thing but what we have now is a glorified under 20’s competition.

It will be interesting how this six again plays out next year. For example, in the finals they essentially didn’t call them. That in itself is a bit of an indication of the problem they now find themselves in: either start calling them aplenty and watch massive scoreline differentials again or don’t call them which means that we have a free for all (players just standing offside and continually slowing the play ball down)

If he can somewhat fix this absolute charade of a transfer system where people can sign somewhere else over a year in advance, players and managers constantly angling for releases and upgrades mid contract, players essentially gravitating to the same teams over and over and essentially a system with no transparency then I will form a higher opinion of him. That and actually looking at places outside of NSW and Qld for the next expansion team would also be good.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,983
So its his job to fix 25 years of bad management, or can he just skate by and do sweet fk all like john grant did... like seriously, you all eat up the bad media and tycoon beatem ups... he is a blunt dictator yes, but leaders lead, and its sport admin, not a country, so unless he hasn't broken any laws, we are extremely luckly to have any league playing.. Greenberg left a huge mess and a game built on the wrestle, with no expansion in sight...
As for the competitions standard, that is never a comparison to any era, depending on what/how you enjoy your league.. you want a close match, well rosters have to be like for like for that to happen, Melbourne vs Penrith were nail biters, but a Melbourne vs Cowboys, just shows how bad clubs have gotten in recruiting and retention and stepping away from cultivating NRL juniors... this isn't the rule changes or PVLs fault, just a coincident since the demise of the under20s comp slowly filtering thru the years and managers pushing average NRL standard players around like pin balls, the rules aren't a catalyst to aaron woods missing tackles, yet he can go from club to club and earn good coin to continue missing tackles regardless of the rules
Bad media? He’s news ltds golden child lol makes you wonder why doesn’t it? Anyway my comment was in relation to the way he thinks about expansion which comes straight from the horses mouth (excuse the pun!)
if he’s still around when next expansion comes up then the game will go nowhere and just be adding another heartland club in all likelihood. Hopefully he isnt.
competition standard never been better? Where have you been the last two seasons as he has led the total f**k up of the rules and the game lol?
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,129
Bad media? He’s news ltds golden child lol makes you wonder why doesn’t it? Anyway my comment was in relation to the way he thinks about expansion which comes straight from the horses mouth (excuse the pun!)
if he’s still around when next expansion comes up then the game will go nowhere and just be adding another heartland club in all likelihood. Hopefully he isnt.
competition standard never been better? Where have you been the last two seasons as he has led the total f**k up of the rules and the game lol?
Bad WA media, ...sorry forgot to note that

Nothing wrong with another heartland area, if perth and WA as a whole keep striving to compete at high levels in the junior reserve grades, it will become a heartland of sorts, just as NZ and PNG are viewed as heartland aside from the QLD, NSW and somewhat ACT

As for where I've been? Glued to the TV in lockdown watching my beloved Panthers make 2 GFs on the back of a good roster, rule adaptiveness, and strong depth as has your Storm winning last year and getting close to yet another GF... can't blame the rules, if other clubs are poor at playing the game... or is rewarding mediocrity to the lower half of the ladder a good barometer to become better as a sport... might aswell give up and become AFL
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,129
I didn’t say that I was supportive of previous management and it is not an automatic conclusion one should make from my somewhat tepid reaction or thoughts on V’landys. Indeed those feelings can be quite mutually exclusive.

Sure he has done some very good things but sometimes his style is not necessarily a positive. For example, the high tackle situation is a complete mismanagement and the six again was and is a massive overreach - a solution looking for a problem.

Even if you wanted to bring in more fatigue and change the game - I thought the game wasn’t in such a perilous state in terms of product but notwithstanding - you could have just reduced the amount of interchanges over a couple of years. If you wanted to reduce the wrestle you could have had the referees just clamp down on it hard. Instead he created a new rule which wasn’t trialled or tested and has had mostly a few notably negative effects

1. Field position being the biggest consideration rather than an offence itself. So for example teams are just going to stand offside and slow the play down when they have the opposition down inside their own 20m as there is no disincentive

2. You have very little oversight on refereeing decisions. People may argue that means less time concerning ourselves about decisions but that is not necessarily a good thing. Nobody knows what the six again is for most of the time.

3. Most importantly once you change the style of the game, you then change the type of athlete playing the game and the type of roster you need to create. That, in of itself may not be a bad thing but it needs to be planned and measured over a longer timeframe. Bigger athletes and wrestling are just byproducts of the evolution of the game over the past 20 years or so. By trying to change that overnight and in a time when depth is already tested by COVID-19, you have essentially eliminated a huge amount of players from the game without the clubs and systems being able to cope with that change. Again that change isn’t necessarily a bad thing but what we have now is a glorified under 20’s competition.

It will be interesting how this six again plays out next year. For example, in the finals they essentially didn’t call them. That in itself is a bit of an indication of the problem they now find themselves in: either start calling them aplenty and watch massive scoreline differentials again or don’t call them which means that we have a free for all (players just standing offside and continually slowing the play ball down)

If he can somewhat fix this absolute charade of a transfer system where people can sign somewhere else over a year in advance, players and managers constantly angling for releases and upgrades mid contract, players essentially gravitating to the same teams over and over and essentially a system with no transparency then I will form a higher opinion of him. That and actually looking at places outside of NSW and Qld for the next expansion team would also be good.
None of this bothers me, most of it is just adaption to the new rules, which takes time, and as for the transfer system/managers if you change it again, theyll find a way to rort it again, or work around it... look at the bulldogs right now, offering 3-4 year deals like candy.. half of that squad will be moved on to another club, while the dogs pay that frieght within 2 years, as had penrith done with RCG, DWZ, Waqa, etc.. its some sharing scheme that benefits the clubs that have cash to splurge, and can afford to have players play abroad, whilst replacing the 1st grade squad with their brightest juniors... gus has already proved it with the past two years of the panthers, now its starting all over again at Canterbury... and clubs like the dragons benefit from cheap NRL mercs
 
Messages
11,346
Haha didn’t realise that was my job! I’m a rugby league fan, advocate for an nrl club in perth and general follower of the game. A voice for WANRL I am not!
Well if the rest of the rugby league followers in WA think in the negative aspect, like you do, then they do not deserve a team.
If you cannot see that this the best chance that WA has had to get a team in since 1995, and are willing to get in and do the hard work right when it’s needed, well then honestly maybe you should find (Or stay in?) a rally car forum.
 
Messages
3,827
What's personal about it? Its just facts.. nearly every 2 out of 3 posts by you are just piling shìt on PVL or the nrl admin, expansion was no better with Greenberg in charge.. seriously the whinge meter is at a all time high when i read your posts.. RL has had many changes since i started watching it, and this is the closest to the golden era that was the Winfield cup in the 80/90s
Yeah, I think it is worth looking at some of the good things the game is doing. We all wish the SL war didn't happen but with the Dolphins coming in, we are back to where we are in 1995 (if you exchange Perth for Melbourne which is a much bigger market to be in anyway) but we are there in a much more sustainable way this time:

- Three less clubs in the NSW market
- Good foothold / niche carved in Melbourne
- TV revenue very close to as high as it's ever been
- Memberships as high as they've ever been
- Room to expand into Perth and Adelaide which is only going to strengthen the game as the decades roll on
- Options to further grow the sport in SEQ and NZ if we see fit
- Quality RL stadiums either built or being built for just about every club

I think you are right about us being on the edge of a new golden era.
 
Messages
3,827
So its his job to fix 25 years of bad management, or can he just skate by and do sweet fk all like john grant did... like seriously, you all eat up the bad media and tycoon beatem ups... he is a blunt dictator yes, but leaders lead, and its sport admin, not a country, so unless he hasn't broken any laws, we are extremely luckly to have any league playing.. Greenberg left a huge mess and a game built on the wrestle, with no expansion in sight...
As for the competitions standard, that is never a comparison to any era, depending on what/how you enjoy your league.. you want a close match, well rosters have to be like for like for that to happen, Melbourne vs Penrith were nail biters, but a Melbourne vs Cowboys, just shows how bad clubs have gotten in recruiting and retention and stepping away from cultivating NRL juniors... this isn't the rule changes or PVLs fault, just a coincident since the demise of the under20s comp slowly filtering thru the years and managers pushing average NRL standard players around like pin balls, the rules aren't a catalyst to aaron woods missing tackles, yet he can go from club to club and earn good coin to continue missing tackles regardless of the rules
I think some forget too that to make real change in an environment like the NRL you need a dictator to come in and get things done. I think some forget that the AFL had their own dictator called Andrew Demetriou. The changes he forced through laid the platform for where they are today. Was he universally popular in AFL land at the time? No
 

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
8,494
It's because News ltd are such cheerleaders of V'landys which makes me suspicious of him.

News ltd don't want whats best for NRL or Rugby League, they want whats best for News ltd - that is to profit from NRL by any means possible.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,129
It's because News ltd are such cheerleaders of V'landys which makes me suspicious of him.

News ltd don't want whats best for NRL or Rugby League, they want whats best for News ltd - that is to profit from NRL by any means possible.
Chicken or the Egg, Foxtel pays the big bucks... now back to the show..

jacko.gif
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,983
If you cannot see that this the best chance that WA has had to get a team in since 1995,
Not unless Vlandys quits. I’ve been fighting this good fight since 2010, don’t be telling me what I should or shouldn’t be doing.

“Forget wasting millions in rusted-on AFL states. We must undertake a full analysis [of growth markets] but Perth does not have a huge league audience. Then there’s the concern around flying NRL players five hours when we already hear criticism of player workloads and how taxing the season is on the stars of the game.”

Those remarks infuriated the good rugby league folk of Perth, especially Perth businessman Peter Cumins, who was on the board of the Western Reds during Super League and also behind the push for the West Coast Pirates.

“The way he dismissed the WA market and his reasons are pathetic,” Cumins said late last year.

 

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,448
V'Landys is a bad leader. Greenberg and Beattie tried to make changes, any time they did they would cop endless beat ups from 9 and News Corp. V'Landys has not had a single negative article about him from either of them. That doesn't make Greenberg good, but goddamn any time he did anything News Corp were on the attack.
 
Messages
11,346
Not unless Vlandys quits. I’ve been fighting this good fight since 2010, don’t be telling me what I should or shouldn’t be doing.

“Forget wasting millions in rusted-on AFL states. We must undertake a full analysis [of growth markets] but Perth does not have a huge league audience. Then there’s the concern around flying NRL players five hours when we already hear criticism of player workloads and how taxing the season is on the stars of the game.”

Those remarks infuriated the good rugby league folk of Perth, especially Perth businessman Peter Cumins, who was on the board of the Western Reds during Super League and also behind the push for the West Coast Pirates.

“The way he dismissed the WA market and his reasons are pathetic,” Cumins said late last year.

Mate I known what he said, you've used it constantly since that day it was said.
It's time to say f**k him, rally your troops.
Understand something, Western Australia, Perth, have the heart backing of a great deal of the real rugby league community to be the next team in the NRL. If the WA rugby League play it right and gather the right people Vlandys will listen. He will have to, he will have no choice.
I do not want to be having a go at you on this topic mate. I want a team from WA in the comp.
I'm telling you though, it's time to start getting people on your side and try not to have such a negative spin on it all. We will back a team from there, trust me. And I'm pretty sure Vlandys haas said countless times that the fans rule the game.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,129
Mate I known what he said, you've used it constantly since that day it was said.
It's time to say f**k him, rally your troops.
Understand something, Western Australia, Perth, have the heart backing of a great deal of the real rugby league community to be the next team in the NRL. If the WA rugby League play it right and gather the right people Vlandys will listen. He will have to, he will have no choice.
I do not want to be having a go at you on this topic mate. I want a team from WA in the comp.
I'm telling you though, it's time to start getting people on your side and try not to have such a negative spin on it all. We will back a team from there, trust me. And I'm pretty sure Vlandys haas said countless times that the fans rule the game.
Im a fan of Vlad, and if WA is gonna get a team they just need a push like what your suggesting, there needs to be uproar to the nth degree... i preferably want to see perth succeed on the back of successful junior development before admission, not just gain access due to being a city without any presence, that way you can build a first grade team from both mercs and juniors, not just mercs... look at how slow the dolphins have recruited and they are in a heartland
 

AdelaideSharky

Juniors
Messages
272
Im a fan of Vlad, and if WA is gonna get a team they just need a push like what your suggesting, there needs to be uproar to the nth degree... i preferably want to see perth succeed on the back of successful junior development before admission, not just gain access due to being a city without any presence, that way you can build a first grade team from both mercs and juniors, not just mercs... look at how slow the dolphins have recruited and they are in a heartland
That sums up Melbourne to a tee. 24 years in the big league and only produced 2 local juniors.

For all their success they've still been pretty much a defacto Queensland team based out of Melbourne.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,983
It’s ironic people say north Sydney has lost interest due to not having an nrl club anymore yet expect perth to be able to match junior Systems of established areas with nrl clubs without one! Unless we have a direct pathway we will see our best kids either sign for Force or move to the east coast to put themselves in the shop window. We don’t have pokies and the nrl won’t fund a second tier team so how do we improve our jnrs without an nrl club? This year we’ve had two WA jnrs make their first grade debuts (Dogs and Manly). I’m interested to know how people think we can improve our jnrs if thats going to be the litmus test for getting a club?
 

AdelaideSharky

Juniors
Messages
272
It’s ironic people say north Sydney has lost interest due to not having an nrl club anymore yet expect perth to be able to match junior Systems of established areas with nrl clubs without one! Unless we have a direct pathway we will see our best kids either sign for Force or move to the east coast to put themselves in the shop window. We don’t have pokies and the nrl won’t fund a second tier team so how do we improve our jnrs without an nrl club? This year we’ve had two WA jnrs make their first grade debuts (Dogs and Manly). I’m interested to know how people think we can improve our jnrs if thats going to be the litmus test for getting a club?
Mate, no offence but is whingeing all you ever do?

Your constant whingeing is doing nothing to further your cause in fact all it's doing is putting people offside.

It's the same attitude that put Bears fans offside with the rest of us.

We get it you want your club back in but taking potshots at the other clubs isn't going to win you many friends to the cause.

As far as PVL is concerned I think that bloke is in the wrong code, he should be heading up Rugby Australia.
 

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
8,494
That sums up Melbourne to a tee. 24 years in the big league and only produced 2 local juniors.

For all their success they've still been pretty much a defacto Queensland team based out of Melbourne.
There should probably be some investigation or audit into the junior situation in VIC. It won't happen though, you know why? cause the NRL doesn't care.
 

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