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18th club, whose next?

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
8,557
Why would they move out of GIO Stadium?

It just needs an upgrade.
GIO is passed its used by date and if there's an opportunity to build a new state of the art stadium closer to busy social hubs then its a much better outcome for rectangular sports and also the city. This is what they did in Townsville, next it should be Canberra's turn for regional cities.
 

AdelaideSharky

Juniors
Messages
438
GIO is passed its used by date and if there's an opportunity to build a new state of the art stadium closer to busy social hubs then its a much better outcome for rectangular sports and also the city. This is what they did in Townsville, next it should be Canberra's turn for regional cities.
It's right next door to the AIS, all it needs is a Parramatta style rebuild and you're sorted.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,218
It's part of the reason why I think the AFL has to bite the bullet on the Giants and move them to Canberra full time.

Even after giving them all the concessions in the world and billions poured into them, they've only had one Grand Final appearance to their name where they got annihilated and you can still fit the Giants fanbase into a phone box.

All the money in the world won't change the fact Western Sydney doesn't give a f**k about Aussie Rules, never has never will.
Unless something catastrophic happens there's no chance that the AFL will move either the Giants or Suns. The AFL knew going into it that both were expensive long term investments that would take decades to pay off.

Besides, despite what some idiots whom can't see the forest for the trees say, grassroots Aussie Rules in both Western Sydney and SEQ has seen unprecedented growth in the last decade that wouldn't have been possible without GWS and the Suns to push interest.

That growth isn't slowing down either.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,218
They've got a problem then.

If Canberrans are anything like Adelaideans the blue rinse set and the greenies will have a big sook about losing green space for a new stadium.
Canberra's stadium problems are way worse than that. Canberra's sports infrastructure problems have got so bad now that it's effecting local grassroots.

It's not just the stadium either, pretty much all of Canberra's sports and entertainment infrastructure is outdated or obsolete, but every time the subject of investing in it is brought up Labour dismisses it as too expensive, only to then waste that money on frivolous shit. You're typical nimbys and people whom know nothing about the issue whinging about wasting taxpayers dollars don't help either.

The root of the problem is that there's no viable alternate political party to Labour in the ACT, which effectively makes Canberra a one party state which leads to the inevitable incompetence and corruption that goes along with that.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
45,617
N
Unless something catastrophic happens there's no chance that the AFL will move either the Giants or Suns. The AFL knew going into it that both were expensive long term investments that would take decades to pay off.

Besides, despite what some idiots whom can't see the forest for the trees say, grassroots Aussie Rules in both Western Sydney and SEQ has seen unprecedented growth in the last decade that wouldn't have been possible without GWS and the Suns to push interest.

That growth isn't slowing down either.
Not to mention they arent costing much more than some heartland afl teams in melbourne in terms of their grants.
 

greenBV4

Juniors
Messages
1,964
I think the NSW Government's announcement of their plan to incorporate the Central Coast as part of Greater Sydney hurts the Bears' chances of coming back.

There's enough bs from league fans outside of NSW who think there's too many Sydney clubs as it is.
I've heard before that Sydney has included the central coasts population in its total population for a while now
 

baselinepanther

Juniors
Messages
1,434
It's right next door to the AIS, all it needs is a Parramatta style rebuild and you're sorted.
stick to what you know , which isn't much it seems , & leave what Canberra needs to Canberrans ....

GIO is built next to literally nothing else entertainment wise. The Belconnen town centre which has only a few bars restaurants etc is a 7 to 10 minute drive & a 25 to 30 minute walk up a steep incline on College street.
Its served its purpose in that , its where it was built & was the only suitable facility the Raiders could have played out of. Its time to build the next facility in the city where the game day can be enhanced exponentially by all that civic offers which is a lot.

An enclosed stadium in the city would take the Raiders to another level of success into the future.
 

xe_kilroy

Juniors
Messages
82
Clubs come and go. As much as people are born into supporting them, future generations would get as adapted and adopted into other new clubs or relocated clubs. Generational change. No one cries anymore for Fitzroy AR, or Glebe, Newtown, etc in RL.

The bigger picture, the long-term sustainability of a sport itself (not even the league itself), is key. Look at the Brisbane comps for instance, how it morphed over the decades, so many clubs died, merged, till we have the current QLD Cup now and the teams there.

If the Super League had won in the 90s, for instance, just wore down the ARL over time and there wasn't a healing process.....today there'd be a genuine national RL comp, and at some point expanded to include Townsville, NZ, Wollongong, Central Coast. Fans of the Knights would've eventually adopted the Mariners, or the new generation of kids would have, for instance.

Have always thought the best way to creating a national comp was creating new Sydney clubs and having all those famous old clubs still exist in the NSWRL sub-tier only, to keep their histories. The breaking away of, the division of Sydney clubs, is what the problem with SL was. If they instead created four new Sydney clubs (north south, east, west) and left the others to the ARL, and then over time SL got richer stronger corporate backing, RL imo would've eventually been as strong as AFL...especially if they invested money into grassroots along the way, not just broken away to cause damage and eventually fold.

I know my stance is very controversial, and harsh, but I do believe it would've worked better in shifting long-term the masses of RL fans over to an appreciation for it, and disenfranchised fans eventually coming back because the love of the sport overrides...new star players to enthuse over, new rivalries, new histories being forged.

Because the alternative path is what happens now in both AFL and NRL, where the leagues have to start trying to force clubs to merge and lose their identities, or to die out, or to relocate against their wishes. And that will only keep causing tension, dismay, and worse the loss of famous old clubs -- who'd be better of being preserved in a local sub-tier state comp feeder league.
 
Last edited:

baselinepanther

Juniors
Messages
1,434
Unless something catastrophic happens there's no chance that the AFL will move either the Giants or Suns. The AFL knew going into it that both were expensive long term investments that would take decades to pay off.

Besides, despite what some idiots whom can't see the forest for the trees say, grassroots Aussie Rules in both Western Sydney and SEQ has seen unprecedented growth in the last decade that wouldn't have been possible without GWS and the Suns to push interest.

That growth isn't slowing down either.
AFL like soccer , is a girly sport thats easy to play , unlike rough mean rugby league & thats why mummies are getting their kids to play it & its the only reason . But still with the 2 new clubs a decade after their inception & a GF & multiple finals appearances for one of them , no one watches them live or on TV. The Swans & Lions still only have niche followings after 35 years with both often outrated by cartoons & cooking shows on TV in Sydney & Brisbane.
Rugby League was the dominant sport in NSW in 1982 when the swans moved to Sydney. Nothing has changed except theres a few more kids running around in basketball singlets & tight shorts who were most likely never going to play RL anyway.
I heard the chicken littles back 40 years ago , oh oh .. aussie rules will take over in
5
10
15
20 years

here we are 40 years later & , its no closer
 

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
8,557
Clubs come and go. As much as people are born into supporting them, future generations would get as adapted and adopted into other new clubs or relocated clubs. Generational change. No one cries anymore for Fitzroy AR, or Glebe, Newtown, etc in RL.

The bigger picture, the long-term sustainability of a sport itself (not even the league itself), is key. Look at the Brisbane comps for instance, how it morphed over the decades, so many clubs died, merged, till we have the current QLD Cup now and the teams there.

If the Super League had won in the 90s, for instance, just wore down the ARL over time and there wasn't a healing process.....today there'd be a genuine national RL comp, and at some point expanded to include Townsville, NZ, Wollongong, Central Coast. Fans of the Knights would've eventually adopted the Mariners, or the new generation of kids would have, for instance.

Have always thought the best way to creating a national comp was creating new Sydney clubs and having all those famous old clubs still exist in the NSWRL sub-tier only, to keep their histories. The breaking away of, the division of Sydney clubs, is what the problem with SL was. If they instead created four new Sydney clubs (north south, east, west) and left the others to the ARL, and then over time SL got richer stronger corporate backing, RL imo would've eventually been as strong as AFL...especially if they invested money into grassroots along the way, not just broken away to cause damage and eventually fold.

I know my stance is very controversial, and harsh, but I do believe it would've worked better in shifting long-term the masses of RL fans over to an appreciation for it, and disenfranchised fans eventually coming back because the love of the sport overrides...new star players to enthuse over, new rivalries, new histories being forged.

Because the alternative path is what happens now in both AFL and NRL, where the leagues have to start trying to force clubs to merge and lose their identities, or to die out, or to relocate against their wishes. And that will only keep causing tension, dismay, and worse the loss of famous old clubs -- who'd be better of being preserved in a local sub-tier state comp feeder league.
My honest opinion is that both codes will be in trouble in 10-15 years. The truth is their support comes from mainly over 40s and as older generations die out those supporters won't be replaced in the same numbers by younger ones. Doesn't really matter where you have teams, the problem will be across the board.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
2,905
Have always thought the best way to creating a national comp was creating new Sydney clubs and having all those famous old clubs still exist in the NSWRL sub-tier only, to keep their histories. The breaking away of, the division of Sydney clubs, is what the problem with SL was. If they instead created four new Sydney clubs (north south, east, west) and left the others to the ARL, and then over time SL got richer stronger corporate backing, RL imo would've eventually been as strong as AFL...especially if they invested money into grassroots along the way, not just broken away to cause damage and eventually fold.

Yeah, and that would have been an interesting move by Superleague - setting up newly branded teams for their 3 or 4 Sydney clubs.

Problem is for Sydney fans that aside from rough geography, there's no context.. no backstory.

Plus, who would have OWNED the new clubs? All News Ltd.. or part/fully owned by whatever ARL Sydney clubs they could entice? (Say, Penrith as part or full owners of West Sydney Wombats playing out of Parramatta Stadium?!?)
 

xe_kilroy

Juniors
Messages
82
Yeah, and that would have been an interesting move by Superleague - setting up newly branded teams for their 3 or 4 Sydney clubs.

Problem is for Sydney fans that aside from rough geography, there's no context.. no backstory.

Plus, who would have OWNED the new clubs? All News Ltd.. or part/fully owned by whatever ARL Sydney clubs they could entice? (Say, Penrith as part or full owners of West Sydney Wombats playing out of Parramatta Stadium?!?)
I wouldve set it up that 2-3 NSWRL teams own a single new Sydney club. They help fund it with their leagues clubs and such, and are feeder clubs to that premier club. Try get an equal amount of NSWRL teams backing each club.

Eg... St.G + Cronulla in NSWRL but fund the Sydney South Outlaws. Colors red blue black white

Eg...Manly + Norths in NSWRL but fund the Sydney North Riders. Colors burgundy black red white

Eg....Easts + Souths in NSWRL but fund the Sydney East Wolves. Colors red green blue white

Eg....Parra + Penrith in NSWRL but fund the Sydney West Snakes. Colors blue yellow black white

Canterbury, Balmain, Wests....maybe have to slot them in where most appropriate. Maybe a fifth Sydney team for those three.

Something like that I wouldve envisioned. At least that way youre tying existing fans of local clubs to a new club, so you dont completely ostracize them.

In time a Sydney East Wolves wouldve ended up a premier supported club like Brisbane Broncos is to SEQ rather than their original league clubs like Valleys, Wynnum etc before the advent of the Broncos
 

xe_kilroy

Juniors
Messages
82
My honest opinion is that both codes will be in trouble in 10-15 years. The truth is their support comes from mainly over 40s and as older generations die out those supporters won't be replaced in the same numbers by younger ones. Doesn't really matter where you have teams, the problem will be across the board.
It is a problem in Australia. Small population but too many football codes fairly equally supported or strong. Dissipation of youth talent, codes eating each other. Will always be it seems in Australia AR, Soccer and RL holding on for grim life, sharing a pie chart of money and youth participation, stalemate.
 
Messages
11,601
My honest opinion is that both codes will be in trouble in 10-15 years. The truth is their support comes from mainly over 40s and as older generations die out those supporters won't be replaced in the same numbers by younger ones. Doesn't really matter where you have teams, the problem will be across the board.
Junior fumbleball numbers have been on the slide in Victoria for a while and the slide continues today. Today sport is about going international and that's why the NFL are playing games in the UK to sell out crowds and will have a team in London within 5 years. Fumbleball couldn't sell out games anywhere outside of Australia. They even had to give thousands of free tickets out when they played games in New Zealand.
 

xe_kilroy

Juniors
Messages
82
Or.....

Eg... St.G + Cronulla + Canterbury in NSWRL but fund the Sydney South Outlaws. Colors red blue black white

Eg...Manly + Norths + Balmain in NSWRL but fund the Sydney North Riders. Colors burgundy orange black white

Eg....Easts + Souths + Newtown in NSWRL but fund the Sydney East Wolves. Colors red green blue white

Eg....Parra + Penrith + Wests in NSWRL but fund the Sydney West Snakes. Colors blue yellow black white
 

AdelaideSharky

Juniors
Messages
438
Clubs come and go. As much as people are born into supporting them, future generations would get as adapted and adopted into other new clubs or relocated clubs. Generational change. No one cries anymore for Fitzroy AR, or Glebe, Newtown, etc in RL.

The bigger picture, the long-term sustainability of a sport itself (not even the league itself), is key. Look at the Brisbane comps for instance, how it morphed over the decades, so many clubs died, merged, till we have the current QLD Cup now and the teams there.

If the Super League had won in the 90s, for instance, just wore down the ARL over time and there wasn't a healing process.....today there'd be a genuine national RL comp, and at some point expanded to include Townsville, NZ, Wollongong, Central Coast. Fans of the Knights would've eventually adopted the Mariners, or the new generation of kids would have, for instance.

Have always thought the best way to creating a national comp was creating new Sydney clubs and having all those famous old clubs still exist in the NSWRL sub-tier only, to keep their histories. The breaking away of, the division of Sydney clubs, is what the problem with SL was. If they instead created four new Sydney clubs (north south, east, west) and left the others to the ARL, and then over time SL got richer stronger corporate backing, RL imo would've eventually been as strong as AFL...especially if they invested money into grassroots along the way, not just broken away to cause damage and eventually fold.

I know my stance is very controversial, and harsh, but I do believe it would've worked better in shifting long-term the masses of RL fans over to an appreciation for it, and disenfranchised fans eventually coming back because the love of the sport overrides...new star players to enthuse over, new rivalries, new histories being forged.

Because the alternative path is what happens now in both AFL and NRL, where the leagues have to start trying to force clubs to merge and lose their identities, or to die out, or to relocate against their wishes. And that will only keep causing tension, dismay, and worse the loss of famous old clubs -- who'd be better of being preserved in a local sub-tier state comp feeder league.
Had Super League won the war Townsville & NZ would still have teams without expansion as the Cowboys and Warriors were Super League clubs.

All of the 1995 expansion clubs bar South Queensland went to Super League.
 

AdelaideSharky

Juniors
Messages
438
I wouldve set it up that 2-3 NSWRL teams own a single new Sydney club. They help fund it with their leagues clubs and such, and are feeder clubs to that premier club. Try get an equal amount of NSWRL teams backing each club.

Eg... St.G + Cronulla in NSWRL but fund the Sydney South Outlaws. Colors red blue black white

Eg...Manly + Norths in NSWRL but fund the Sydney North Riders. Colors burgundy black red white

Eg....Easts + Souths in NSWRL but fund the Sydney East Wolves. Colors red green blue white

Eg....Parra + Penrith in NSWRL but fund the Sydney West Snakes. Colors blue yellow black white

Canterbury, Balmain, Wests....maybe have to slot them in where most appropriate. Maybe a fifth Sydney team for those three.

Something like that I wouldve envisioned. At least that way youre tying existing fans of local clubs to a new club, so you dont completely ostracize them.

In time a Sydney East Wolves wouldve ended up a premier supported club like Brisbane Broncos is to SEQ rather than their original league clubs like Valleys, Wynnum etc before the advent of the Broncos
Rugby Union tried that twice with the ARC & NRC but it failed miserably as fans of the respective Sydney & Brisbane clubs didn't want a bar of it.
 

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