18th club, whose next?

[AdelaideSharky]

Ironically no team in Perth actually uses the states colours for some reason.

The Wildcats did throughout the 80's until the mid 90's when they went to red & grey and then red & black.

 

[RL The greatest game]

I warn you from the start that I refuse to be pulled into a deeply esoteric philosophical debate on this, but those identities contradict each other on a fundamental level, therefore it's impossible to truly be an Australian and Tongan at the same time.

You can practice aspects of Tongan culture and be an Australian (or vice versa), but you can't hold allegiance to both identities, or tribes as that's what they really are, at the same time because as soon as those identities are in conflict (which happens more often than people like to admit), with the extreme example being war, you'll be forced to pick a side.

Just like the Duke of Wellington being born in Ireland didn't make him Irish (look up the quote in my signature), being born in Australia doesn't necessarily make a person "Australian". So it's totally reasonable that a person born in Australia may identify with another country, however that doesn't mean that they get to have their cake and eat it too, which is the real source of the issue; the modern narcissist culture, where a significant portion of the population believe that the broader society should bend to their every whim despite any broader consequences that might have.

Just for the record the Duke of Wellingtons parents were born in Ireland and i think his grandparents were as well, so that would make him more Irish than a lot of people born here who claim they are Australian.

 

[ReddFelon]

I see almost 12k fans flocked to see the Perth Wildcats' first home game of the season. Perth sure loves its sporting teams. I know it helps that the Wildcats have made the finals for the last 35 years straight and won 5 premierships over the last 8 seasons, but it shows what could be in Perth if they're given an NRL team as strong as the Storm. I think an NRL with a strong Storm and Pirates could pull larger GF numbers than AwFuL, especially if it's a West Coast vs Melbourne GF.

Now that Brisbane has a second team we should move Magic Round to Perth. The newly built Perth Stadium is far bigger and it would be a great holiday weekend for people from the east coast. They could have 2 games on a Friday, broadcast into the east coast at 7.30pm and 9.30pm. Sat and Sun can have a 5.30pm, 7.30pm and 9.30pm game.

It's definitely a thing that separates Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne from other cities, people go insane for their teams. When I used to live in Perth any time the Eagles or Dockers made finals you'd see entire suburbs decked out in colours. I can remember when Fremantle made the GF and going to the pub the entire city of Fremantle had purple flags and banners on every house, restaurant and bar.

Wildcats same deal, their success plays a part but they have an insanely positive culture. They have all these rules like no swearing in public or during a game, all players must do 3x the number of school visits and community events as the NBL requires. Players are required to be polite at all times, social media policies, etc. The entire organisation is incredibly professional and aims to create a family friendly environment.

 

[Perth Red]

It's definitely a thing that separates Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne from other cities, people go insane for their teams. When I used to live in Perth any time the Eagles or Dockers made finals you'd see entire suburbs decked out in colours. I can remember when Fremantle made the GF and going to the pub the entire city of Fremantle had purple flags and banners on every house, restaurant and bar.

Wildcats same deal, their success plays a part but they have an insanely positive culture. They have all these rules like no swearing in public or during a game, all players must do 3x the number of school visits and community events as the NBL requires. Players are required to be polite at all times, social media policies, etc. The entire organisation is incredibly professional and aims to create a family friendly environment.

I’m always fascinated by what happened to force supporters. I know they were terrible on the field for years but they got over 20k regularly at waca which was terrible for watching games then dropped right off when they moved to the much better hbf park. Still on par with nrl avg attendance but compared to where they were at waca it was a dramatic drop off.

 

[TGG]

Would Christchurch accept a relocated Canterbury Bulldogs?

Change the club's colours to red and black.

Everyone's a winner.

1. One less blue coloured team.
2. One less Sydney team.
3. The congested southwestern corridor of Sydney is opened up so that The Tigers can rebrand as the Western Sydney Tigers and forge an identity.
4. Possibility of adding NZ 3 in the future.
5. Add Perth to make it an 18 team competition.
6. Sydney suburbanites will go into meltdown, providing lots of lulz.

Not many people should be replying to this because if you can’t say something positive you shouldn’t be saying anything at all.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

I’m always fascinated by what happened to force supporters. I know they were terrible on the field for years but they got over 20k regularly at waca which was terrible for watching games then dropped right off when they moved to the much better hbf park. Still on par with nrl avg attendance but compared to where they were at waca it was a dramatic drop off.

Force fans now are like what Rams were in 1998.

The Rams had that mass drop off when they left Adelaide Oval and went west to Hindmarsh Stadium despite the latter being more suited to league.

 

[ReddFelon]

I’m always fascinated by what happened to force supporters. I know they were terrible on the field for years but they got over 20k regularly at waca which was terrible for watching games then dropped right off when they moved to the much better hbf park. Still on par with nrl avg attendance but compared to where they were at waca it was a dramatic drop off.

Location and the financial crisis.

When they played at Subiaco the big local rugby clubs participants live in that area. Nedlands, UWA, Associates, Wests, Cottesloe. Easily the 5 biggest clubs, probably about 10,000-15,000 people involved from players to family, volunteers, etc. They all stopped going because of travel (which is stupid to me, but eh).

That and the firepower collapse, when they lost all their star power and then the ARU brought in their "Wallabies top ups" which conveniently saw nearly every good player move to the Reds and Waratahs. At one point the teams had a $4.8 million salary cap (2010/11 I think) but the NSW and QLD teams had $8 million and $7 million because they "needed to keep the rep players together".

I enjoy Rugby, but no doubt Rugby in Australia, especially in the 2010s was the most corrupt sport when it came to favouritism/nepotism. Even in the supposedly independent national panel QLD and NSW get more votes than all other states and the independent panel members combined.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It's definitely a thing that separates Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne from other cities, people go insane for their teams. When I used to live in Perth any time the Eagles or Dockers made finals you'd see entire suburbs decked out in colours. I can remember when Fremantle made the GF and going to the pub the entire city of Fremantle had purple flags and banners on every house, restaurant and bar.

Wildcats same deal, their success plays a part but they have an insanely positive culture. They have all these rules like no swearing in public or during a game, all players must do 3x the number of school visits and community events as the NBL requires. Players are required to be polite at all times, social media policies, etc. The entire organisation is incredibly professional and aims to create a family friendly environment.

Any chance of the organisation behind the Wildcats saddling up with the Pirates?

 

[AdelaideSharky]

Location and the financial crisis.

When they played at Subiaco the big local rugby clubs participants live in that area. Nedlands, UWA, Associates, Wests, Cottesloe. Easily the 5 biggest clubs, probably about 10,000-15,000 people involved from players to family, volunteers, etc. They all stopped going because of travel (which is stupid to me, but eh).

That and the firepower collapse, when they lost all their star power and then the ARU brought in their "Wallabies top ups" which conveniently saw nearly every good player move to the Reds and Waratahs. At one point the teams had a $4.8 million salary cap (2010/11 I think) but the NSW and QLD teams had $8 million and $7 million because they "needed to keep the rep players together".

I enjoy Rugby, but no doubt Rugby in Australia, especially in the 2010s was the most corrupt sport when it came to favouritism/nepotism. Even in the supposedly independent national panel QLD and NSW get more votes than all other states and the independent panel members combined.

The same thing that has blighted football (soccer) in this country for decades.

 

[Perth Red]

Any chance of the organisation behind the Wildcats saddling up with the Pirates?

Wildcats we’re so,d this year to sports entertainment group. too early to say if it is a good move for them, they were incredibly succesful on and off the field under their last owner. New owners own 25% in Melbourne United as well.

The 96 year old guy that owned them is a great bloke and has donated a lot of money to charities in Perth. He also built Basketball WA a Centre of Excellence and community basketball centre. Made his money in shopping centres.

 

[Dragonwest]

Ironically no team in Perth actually uses the states colours for some reason.
Eagles blue/yellow
Dockers purple/white
Glory purple/silver/orange
Wildcats red/black
Scorchers orange/black
Fever Green
Force Blue/black

Western Warriors do ... although that form of cricket has been lost from the TV for a long time

 

[ReddFelon]

Just to really drive home why I don't think NZ 2 should come in before Perth, the Crusaders just signed Pablo Matera on a 200,000 NZD contract. This is the captain of Argentina who turned down a 400,000 Euro contract in France to move to NZ for less money, because he feels it will make him a better player. This is the equivalent to turning down an NRL contract to play in the reserve grade for 30,000 in terms of finances.


I just don't see how a second NZ team competes with that level of renown. If you can get guys to turn down half a million dollars internationally, I don't know how you can get juniors to switch preferences when they're going to have far lower financial expectations than an international star.

 

[flippikat]

Just to really drive home why I don't think NZ 2 should come in before Perth, the Crusaders just signed Pablo Matera on a 200,000 NZD contract. This is the captain of Argentina who turned down a 400,000 Euro contract in France to move to NZ for less money, because he feels it will make him a better player. This is the equivalent to turning down an NRL contract to play in the reserve grade for 30,000 in terms of finances.


I just don't see how a second NZ team competes with that level of renown. If you can get guys to turn down half a million dollars internationally, I don't know how you can get juniors to switch preferences when they're going to have far lower financial expectations than an international star.

The thing that's exacerbating the battle-lines between pro-NZ2 and pro-Perth factions is the straight-out choice between Perth & NZ2 for team 18, with no prospect of anything beyond that.

That's framing it as a false dilemma.

I maintain that it doesn't necessarily have to be so - IMO the NRL needs to grow a pair & say to ALL stakeholders that both are happening, and the only part that's up for debate is whether they happen at the same time or staggered.

 

[MugaB]

The thing that's exacerbating the battle-lines between pro-NZ2 and pro-Perth factions is the straight-out choice between Perth & NZ2 for team 18, with no prospect of anything beyond that.

That's framing it as a false dilemma.

I maintain that it doesn't necessarily have to be so - IMO the NRL needs to grow a pair & say to ALL stakeholders that both are happening, and the only part that's up for debate is whether they happen at the same time or staggered.

Or PNG.... hehehe

 

[ReddFelon]

The thing that's exacerbating the battle-lines between pro-NZ2 and pro-Perth factions is the straight-out choice between Perth & NZ2 for team 18, with no prospect of anything beyond that.

That's framing it as a false dilemma.

I maintain that it doesn't necessarily have to be so - IMO the NRL needs to grow a pair & say to ALL stakeholders that both are happening, and the only part that's up for debate is whether they happen at the same time or staggered.

I actually agree with that, I just think that Perth is vastly more important to get done as soon as possible. Twiggy Forrest just launched the Western Force Cup starting next year. 18 schools across the greater Perth metro, a healthy mix of public, catholic and private schools. That combined with the existing PSA (Perth's GPS) comp means that Rugby has 25 schools playing in regular competition and it's got direct pathways to club and representatives. They're spending big money getting Force players and coaches into schools.

Comparatively NRLWA's schools cup is 4-6 schools and they don't currently have that ability to show a pathway. With the Force Cup not making the idiotic mistakes that the rich kids only club in QLD and NSW have done, by actually giving equal footing to public and low cost Catholic schools, Rugby League risks losing a potential junior growth area if there isn't a pathway soon. NZ2 on the other hand won't lose as much ground, their Rugby culture is already entrenched and the Warriors pathway exists. Perth could become borderline impossible in 4-6 years, I can't imagine how they'll function as a junior base if the Force Cup expands from its initial 18 to a 30 or so school comp.

 

[Perth Red]

I actually agree with that, I just think that Perth is vastly more important to get done as soon as possible. Twiggy Forrest just launched the Western Force Cup starting next year. 18 schools across the greater Perth metro, a healthy mix of public, catholic and private schools. That combined with the existing PSA (Perth's GPS) comp means that Rugby has 25 schools playing in regular competition and it's got direct pathways to club and representatives. They're spending big money getting Force players and coaches into schools.

Comparatively NRLWA's schools cup is 4-6 schools and they don't currently have that ability to show a pathway. With the Force Cup not making the idiotic mistakes that the rich kids only club in QLD and NSW have done, by actually giving equal footing to public and low cost Catholic schools, Rugby League risks losing a potential junior growth area if there isn't a pathway soon. NZ2 on the other hand won't lose as much ground, their Rugby culture is already entrenched and the Warriors pathway exists. Perth could become borderline impossible in 4-6 years, I can't imagine how they'll function as a junior base if the Force Cup expands from its initial 18 to a 30 or so school comp.

Twiggy is certainly throwing some money at the grassroots, I heard he was happy to be spending $60mill just growing the grassroots! Mind you to him thats a weeks income!

On the plus side if we do have all these kids playing rugger and we do one day get a club that can pay higher wages then the Force in a more glamorous comp then we might see some of the best of them switch to League at 18? As you know many kids here play League and Union up to 16-18.

Last year we only had 3 schools in the Yr 10 comp which is pretty depressing though we did have 64 teams across all groups in 2019.

The Western Force Cup aims to be the premier school-aged rugby competition in the country. | Latest Rugby News | Rugby WA

wa.rugby

It would be ironic if in the fight to take on Union in NZ that RL handed over WA to Union!

 

[Matiunz]

Just to really drive home why I don't think NZ 2 should come in before Perth, the Crusaders just signed Pablo Matera on a 200,000 NZD contract. This is the captain of Argentina who turned down a 400,000 Euro contract in France to move to NZ for less money, because he feels it will make him a better player. This is the equivalent to turning down an NRL contract to play in the reserve grade for 30,000 in terms of finances.


I just don't see how a second NZ team competes with that level of renown. If you can get guys to turn down half a million dollars internationally, I don't know how you can get juniors to switch preferences when they're going to have far lower financial expectations than an international star.

Possibly better analogy here is a guy took less money to play in NRL vs taking a massive offer to play ESL.
Convincing players to move to CHCH to compete in the market against a well loved team with an obsessive fan base will be tough though.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Just to really drive home why I don't think NZ 2 should come in before Perth, the Crusaders just signed Pablo Matera on a 200,000 NZD contract. This is the captain of Argentina who turned down a 400,000 Euro contract in France to move to NZ for less money, because he feels it will make him a better player. This is the equivalent to turning down an NRL contract to play in the reserve grade for 30,000 in terms of finances.


I just don't see how a second NZ team competes with that level of renown. If you can get guys to turn down half a million dollars internationally, I don't know how you can get juniors to switch preferences when they're going to have far lower financial expectations than an international star.

That's not a reason to not try and carve out a niche though. I could be wrong but wasn't the Warriors Toyota Cup team (when that comp existed) having success luring Union talent to League?

 

[ReddFelon]

That's not a reason to not try and carve out a niche though. I could be wrong but wasn't the Warriors Toyota Cup team (when that comp existed) having success luring Union talent to League?

No argument from me, I just think Perth needs to happen ASAP otherwise they'll face an even more uphill battle.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

No argument from me, I just think Perth needs to happen ASAP otherwise they'll face an even more uphill battle.

Agreed, I think @flippikat is on the money. Announce that the NRL's intention is to be in both regions within the next 5 years. Call for bids and then work out the staggered entry dates that suit the game and the respective winning bids. Once they are both in the comp, put #20 out to tender and see what comes up.

All three should have the same conditions placed on them as #17. Money and assets, bank guarantee paid, condition of entry is x amount invested in grass roots and the women's game and also contingent on their annual grant being funded by the boost in TV money. This makes expansion not only feasible, but profitable.