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2004 three quarters problem (a good one to have)

ozbash

Referee
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26,922
vinnie anderson is very quick for a big guy.. when he wants to he can really smoke..

going to be an interesting season,, in a good way.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
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34,665
I guess I'm a little concerned about how many times Girdler got past him in the Final.

Fair enough

But the way Girdler was playing, I'm not sure if Toopi or Martin would have stopped him either
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Koopu is great of the bench...very fit, and a quick play of the ball specialist. I'd like him to retain his place

Once again, I say goodbye Mr. Fa'afili

I don't get it?? Do you want to play Martin on the wing? Because the man is a centre, and Fa'afili is a winger. Anderson would be great cover for second-row AND centre, and get real, Koopu is average.
 

Meth

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34,665
Do you want to play Martin on the wing?

For a man that doesn't get it, you catch on fast

Because the man is a centre

Most attacking centers can slot onto the wing

and Fa'afili is a winger

So was Clinton Mohr, but that didn't secure his a spot each week

and get real, Koopu is average

I'd say playing in the NRL puts him above average...he's a quality player that provides good cover. And seeing as I'd like to keep Anderson, there just so happens to be a spot for Wairangi on my bench...unless you'd like Henry Fa'afili to cover center/second row
 

Meth

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Staff member
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34,665
BTW- Wairangi Koopu is the fittest man in the club, and one of the fittest in the NRL. At a club like the Warriors, that makes Wairangi a major asset to have in the 17.

And I'd be happy to have Anderson on the bench...but not if he is overlooked for a cult hero, that offers little more than safety under the high ball.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
I don't think you have to be an entirely specialised player to play on the wing. Timana Tahu, Adam McDougall, these sorts of fellas have played in the centres a lot as well but they're certainly not bad wingers. This is a make or break season for Henry, if he can show there's more than just the bombs, he'll be okay - but the depth of the club is such that he, along with everyone else in the squad, is fighting to keep their spots ahead of up and comers like Manu Vatuvei and Vince Mellars.
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Henry is not a "cult hero", he's an all-round solid player, with pace, a good step, hes a good defender and a good finisher, which is why he's a regular international with a hat-trick against GB to his credit.
 
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301
Martin Not Guaranteed Warriors Spot
31/01/2004 03:35 PM NewstalkZB

Warriors new boy Tony Martin isn't guaranteed a spot in the team even though he signed on as their number one goalkicker.

With the regular season beginning in March, the Warriors play their first warm-up match next week, against St George-Illawarra, in Hamilton.

Coach Daniel Anderson says Martin will have to fight his way past Kiwis centres Clinton Toopi and Vinnie Anderson.

Anderson says Martin is aware of that but they may try him in other positions and see what happens.

He says in terms of kicking, Brent Webb and Sione Faumuina have also been working hard.


Source: www.xtra.co.nz
 
Messages
301
Henry was starved of ball as well in my opinion at times last year, as most of the attack was directed down the left flank with Sione, Toops and Meli.

I know someone will most likely say he should have gone looking for the ball. and from the games i saw he did. He does more defence than Meli. Henz averaged 6.0 tackles per game in his 24 starts for the Warriors in 2003 at Effective Tackle rate of 84.8%

Francis Meli averaged 3.6 tackles per game at 77.6%. But in Meli makes made more metres per match, averaging 118 metres gained from an average of 13 hit-ups a match. While Henz averaged 96 metres gained per match from an average of 12 hit-ups per match.

IMO Henz deserves to be in the team.

And at the moment Vinnie should get first shot in the centres with Toops as he has done nothing wrong for him not to be in the starting 13.
 
Messages
278
i would have Fa'feli in the team before meli. AS mentioned above Henrrys a beter defender. And most of melis trys are set up by Toopi sione or webb. He rushs up in defence and trys and puts a bit hit on and most the time it dosent work then the other team has an ova lap and makes line brack or scores.
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
He rushs up in defence and trys and puts a bit hit on and most the time it dosent work then the other team has an ova lap and makes line brack or scores.

And most of the time he rushes up because he's forced into a 2 on 1 situation, the result of Toopi only defending when he feels like it.
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Coach Daniel Anderson says Martin will have to fight his way past Kiwis centres Clinton Toopi and Vinnie Anderson.

Exactly. No mention of him playing on the wing, cos it won't happen. Meli and Fa'afili are certainties to start on the wing and if they are replaced, it won't be by Martin.
 

Meth

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34,665
Exactly. No mention of him playing on the wing, cos it won't happen.

The papers today, and the press yesterday, on this topic suggested that Anderson would experiment with Martin on the wing and that wasn't a journo speaking. It was from the horses mouth, so to speak
 

Marty

Juniors
Messages
208
Scuba

You make a good point. Girdler was on fire and I'm not sure if Martin or Toopi would have been able to stop him either...but I think they might have at least got a hand on him. I seem to remember Girlder just running right past him with out Vinnie even touching him.

Vinnie is a brilliant defender, powerful, and one on one he tends to dominate most players in the tackle. But I just don't think he has the agility, and explosive speed and reflexes to excel either as an attacking centre or a defending centre.

You do raise some very valid points about Henry on the wing and for myself am not a very big fan of his. I guess he is what you would call a "defensive winger", sound on both defence and under the high ball but offers very little on attack.

Maby his attacking prowess will improve playing outside Martin I'm not sure. But I would rather have him playing on the wing than I guy who was good on attack but Medicore on defence and the high ball.

It could make for an interesting combination Vinnie playing centre and Martin on the wing but I just don't think Coach Anderson will be picking them in those positions.

This big 110 KG winger they have coming through sounds pretty promising though but might be a defence liability.

Either way Bring on the season...I'm pretty excited to see how it all unfolds.

As to the Wairangi Koopu debate IMO I rate him. Solid toiler who does the job Anderson wants him to do. I think even though he has been around a while he still learning alot of things. At the moment he is learning how to be the honest grafter who does the small things no one notices but every teams needs. I remember the game he played against Brisbane up in Brisbane last year. He played an execellent game. In that game he showed the skills he has by getting balls away in the tackle that set tries up. I see him in a few years becoming a Kevin Campion, Scott Sattler type player. Solid, Dependable, Some skills and Mentally Tough.

Maby not, maby its wishfulthinking on my part ...either way there is something about him I like. which is I guess all it really comes down to.

For the Record Never really rated Logan Swann. Had a really good season last year...but apart from that never really rated.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
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34,665
Thank you Marty...excellent post.

At the moment he is learning how to be the honest grafter who does the small things no one notices but every teams needs

I agree. We have our quota of ball-playing, line-breaking second rowers and, to me, that's what makes guys like Anderson and Koopu even more valuable.

Plus, Koopu has an uncanny knack of getting sinbinned in a case of mistaken identity. Every team needs the sacrifical bunt
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
37,933
Scuba said:
Plus, Koopu has an uncanny knack of getting sinbinned in a case of mistaken identity. Every team needs the sacrifical bunt
True, how they hell they nailed him for the scrap against the Broncos and not Guttenbiel is beyond me, its not like they look alike!
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
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34,665
I seem to remember it happening to him previously as well.....
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
He did hit a ripper of a right hook though, Mr Smooth Criminal Koopu. It was a ripper.

Koopu is the go to man. The man who fills the gap. Its players like him, Betham and Guttenbeil who work hard in the defensive line that lets Ali and Sione drift wide and pop those amazing passes from the @ss type balls. They do the nitty gritty.

Vinnie is very much the same. Does the hard yards. Tackles like a goliath all day long. Is strong enough to push through a defender. I really think he's another Wairangi Koopu, a centre moving into the second row, yet still having the speed when called on to do something on attack.

I think Henry slightly suffered through the mid stages of the season playing outside him however. Maybe due to the way the team was structured they knew they could score fruitfully through Webb, Faumuina, Toopi and Meli down that left hand flank and so directed their attacked there. I just remember Toopi putting players through gaps, or stepping through the line more than Vinnie to give an opportunity to a winger. Later on in the season, and Ando was on fire. Not quite as vibrant on attack, but doing the hard yards and making the occasional bust cutting back on an angle. That just further enhanced my opinion that he's a second rower.

In all honesty, Tony Martin is an absolute gem. I was flabbogasted how good he was at the Sevens. He has a huge step, and speed to burn. He was easily leaving Toopi and Webb in his tracks. It was funny watching him run with Feta on his 90 metre try, and when he knew Feta was under the sticks he sort of started to slow down his speed, even when he was slowing down he was travelling the same speed as Feta! Ask Souths and Manly, Feka isn't the slowest prop doing the rounds. His defence was also not too bad. This guy was hugely rated in Queensland, Daniel Anderson genuinely believes he can coach him into Origin. And he's an 80% goal kicker. Ando saying Martin's no certainty at centre is sort of a tongue in cheek type saying, sort of along the lines of Stacey is no certainty. Without a question of a doubt, Martin will be lacing his boots up in the #3 jumper in Brisbane in a few weeks time.
 

Auckland4ever

Juniors
Messages
1,243
At the start of last season we were scraping a centre pairing together with Carlaw being injured & out of form. Its so much better to have options this yr, basically because it all has to come down to form.

I'd prefer players playing for their specialist positions, & as good as Martin is supposed to be, I'd still like to see him have to earn a position in the backs, though he'll probably be a shoe-in.

Anderson probably could do alright as a 2nd rower, but we got to see a lot of improvement from him as a centre over the course of 1 season, it would be good to see him given a bit more time there. However, I also think you make some good points about him, Iaefeta.
 
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