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2010 starts now - Cleary

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,983
They won't be in this year's play-offs but coach Ivan Cleary feels that if the Warriors are to return to the finals in 2010, the hard work starts now.

Even the eternal optimists have dropped off the scent of a Warriors trip to the post-season as they wallow in 14th, six points outside the eight with only four rounds remaining.

Mentions have been made of a potential wooden spoon but they are saved by two dreadful sides, the Roosters and Sharks, battling it out for the bottom spot four points below.

Any assertions that the Warriors therefore have nothing left to play for in 2009 fly firmly in the face of Cleary's outlook.

"The next four games is effectively our pre-season, really," Cleary said. "How we finish will be a marker on how we start the next year. That's the way I'm looking at it.

"It's a different feeling and a different dynamic I suppose but it's a lot to play for."

That mindset means tinkering is left to a minimum for Saturday's trip to Parramatta. Players down on form such as centre Jerome Ropati have been recalled in the hope of recapturing some confidence to take into next season.

Whether or not that can be done against the red-hot Eels, who have won four in a row to lie one point outside the eight, is another story.

Featuring arguably both the NRL's form back in Jarryd Hayne and forward in Fuifui Moimoi, Parramatta is coming home with a wet sail in a remarkably similar run to the one that saw the Warriors fall one short of the grand final last year.

"I'd rather be in their position but the reality is we're not," Cleary said.

"They've certainly got some guys in form and they're playing with confidence. We're under no illusions of the task in front of us.

"They've played some football on the back of a lot of offloads and that sort of thing so there's an opportunity there where we can upset the apple cart a little bit, maybe.

"They've been playing with such confidence you've got to hope it can't keep continuing."

A poor opening 20 minutes in last Sunday's home loss to the Titans, falling 0-14 behind, resulted in Cleary making a number of changes to travel to Parramatta.

The experiment of Lewis Brown at hooker is put on the backburner after one week, allowing Ian Henderson a reprieve from initially being dropped against Gold Coast to regaining his No.9 jersey almost immediately.

Despite impressing his coach last Sunday, Kevin Locke pushes back to the wing to allow the benefits of Wade McKinnon's 'experience and leadership' at fullback.

The biggest casualty is second-rower Ben Matulino, who is sent back to Toyota Cup duty and replaced by the raw but explosive talents of Ukuma Ta'ai.

"Ben's not contributing as much as he was earlier in the season or what we can," Cleary said. "He's still a young fella. He probably needs to go back and get some more game time and find a bit of form.

"(Ta'ai) runs the ball aggressively and he's a big, strong guy. It was his best game last week in terms of accuracy at NRL level.

"(He was) very green early in the year and he's come on reasonably well. He's been very consistent for the Vulcans. He earns a start and another crack."

There is still no sign of Steve Price as he continues to battle the effects of a rib cartilage injury but Cleary hopes his skipper will be available for the home match against Canberra the following week.

http://www.skysport.co.nz/Default.aspx?tabid=55&cid=11020
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
Still do not understand how Cleary is quite happy to criticise newbies and the younguns, but won't critique the older ones in the team that have been crap in form and deserve a bit of a serving. It may shake their ideas up a bit.
IMO Sharks & Roosters have been bad, but we are flattering ourselves if we think we have been much better. A very poor year in anyone's book, and I don't know if Cleary has actually accepted that. Haven't heard him come out and say that-It's always how we're not far off or things against us...and so on.
I also want to hear some of those responsible for some atrocious decision this year to own them. Then you can have a little more confidence they'll learn from them and move on for the better. At this stage, I'm not at all sure about it...maybe the same dumb things will be done/attempted next season.
 

Drzoidberg

Juniors
Messages
1,135
yeah I dont think Cleary has accepted anything, there were some piss poor management decisions made early this season, which in turn has reflected the sh*t we see on the field atm with only a handful actually trying. Hope he learns from his mistakes
 

wittyfan

Immortal
Messages
30,076
If Cleary's serious that this is the beginning of 2010, then why has the Old Man not been dropped?

All spin and no substance tbh.
 
Messages
10,540
If Cleary's serious that this is the beginning of 2010, then why has the Old Man not been dropped?

All spin and no substance tbh.

This is a fair point - I guess the Warriors' answer to that would be that their likely halves combination for next season are not with the club yet.

Like the article says, that is probably why Jerome is playing and not in the Vulcans where he deserves to be. Maybe why Hendo is back at 9 after being dropped too and also Brown back to the back-row via the bench.
 

Warmess

Juniors
Messages
870
why drop one of the best players ?

Umm, because 2010 has already started for the Warriors as stated and he doesn't play a part in 2010? Sure, the other halves at the club won't be the first picks, but surely developing a bit of depth incase of injuries is important too. Then theres the fact that we _could_ be better without Jones.
 

Revelation 3:20

Juniors
Messages
1,028
The Hard work starts when...... Watson gets rid of cleary/hart
Listening to Cleary it seams his finger is way off the pulse.

"How we finish will be a marker on how we start the next year. That's the way I'm looking at it. - Great, can't wait for next year.......

"Ben's not contributing as much as he was earlier in the season or what we can," Cleary said. "He's still a young fella. He probably needs to go back and get some more game time and find a bit of form. - a bit of time await from Cleary more like it.

"They've been playing with such confidence you've got to hope it can't keep continuing." - Is that our game plan, is it!
 
Last edited:
Messages
10,540
The Hard work starts when...... Watson gets rid of cleary/hart
Listening to Cleary it seams his finger is way off the pulse.

"How we finish will be a marker on how we start the next year. That's the way I'm looking at it. - Great, can't wait for next year.......

"Ben's not contributing as much as he was earlier in the season or what we can," Cleary said. "He's still a young fella. He probably needs to go back and get some more game time and find a bit of form. - a bit of time await from Cleary more like it.

"They've been playing with such confidence you've got to hope it can't keep continuing." - Is that our game plan, is it!

Definitely agree on the Matulino part. I thought that was ironic, given Cleary's decision to play him as an extra prop has undoubtedly been a big part of his struggles.
 

NZ Warrior

First Grade
Messages
6,444
If we are going to build towards 2010, then why are we persisting with players that have failed us in 2009???

I'd be hesitant to use any juniors, as they are gearing up for a finals berth. Why not throw some Vulcans players in there?
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,983
good article by Lowie in todays herald.

There are a lot of performances under public scrutiny at the Warriors.
Little now can be done on site this season because the damage is too great. But the ball has now bounced back squarely into the owners' court.
Mark Hotchin and Eric Watson saved the club from extinction when they bought it and also relieved the worries of many Warriors' fans.
But now they would have heard the mutterings of discontent and it will be concerning them.
They both probably feel compelled to act. What form that takes is anyone's guess but it is a huge responsibility they will not take lightly.
The dilemma facing them is: which part hasn't worked properly? There would not be a person in their organisation that hasn't given his best.
But the fans need confidence in the club coming up with a better result next year.
Some wag yelled out to me as I was leaving the stadium last Sunday: "Lowie, that team is not worth 4 bob, let alone 4 million."
The NRL salary cap is A$4.1 million ($5.1 million).
If you did an exercise on the market value of their players, it will fall well short of that cap.
When you buy a player you are buying an investment for the team and when you see that investment is becoming a losing position you've got to close it out.
The Warriors have to ask themselves - could they have recruited better?
Brent Tate was a good buy and it was bad luck that saw him sustain such a serious injury. However, the question is would he have made the difference if he'd remained injury-free?
What we do know is the team played a type of football that didn't work.
That's the problem that needs to be addressed before anything is done and one option does come to mind.
Few players have worked themselves to a standstill as much as Simon Mannering and it's telling. He's had four years of back-to-back football and he desperately needs a rest, and now is the chance to give him one.
He's going to be critical to the Warriors' hopes in 2010, but if he is not given time to recover properly he won't last five minutes next year.
He should also be rested from the Kiwis and the Warriors should insist he is made unavailable this year.
Matualino is another player needing a little special attention. He needs someone in his ear reminding him of the natural ball-playing talent he has.
He also has in him, if encouraged, the ability to turn a game in a moment with a scud missile type of tackle that can cause the opposing team a total rethink.
His technique actually reminds me of the tackling strike power that former Kangaroo Ian Roberts constantly delivered for me at Wigan and then later when I lured him back to Manly.
Matulino and Mannering probably illustrate the core of a problem for the Warriors' lacklustre year.
Somehow both have turned into the same sort of player when, in fact, they have a different set of skills.
Their back-row teammate Micheal Luck is another who could be given an early spell. You can't do a zillion tackles a year without it taking its toll.
However, it is maybe unfair of me to single out just a few of the forwards. Because giant winger Manu Vatuvei has struggled against injury for most of the year, and fatigue and injuries certainly played a major part in the loss of form suffered by Jerome Ropati.
It can't ever be denied there has been a lot of great effort from all the Warriors players in 2009 - it just hasn't worked for them.
The good thing Hotchin, Watson and all the Warriors fans can look forward to next year is that all the problems are fixable.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10590604
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
37,089
why drop one of the best players ?

:roll:

Seriously, Wittyfan is right.

If Cleary was serious about starting on 2010, Jones would be dropped. He won't be, because this is his farewell tour, so to speak, and I don't really have a problem with that. But let's not pretend Stacey is adding anything to 2010's cause.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,983
But let's not pretend Stacey is adding anything to 2010's cause.

who (apart from you) mentioned Jones playing 2010 ?

like it or lump it, he's the best running around the country at the moment (thats 2009 for you meth)

progress.gif
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
37,089
who (apart from you) mentioned Jones playing 2010 ?

like it or lump it, he's the best running around the country at the moment (thats 2009 for you meth)

progress.gif

You are the most convincing evidence of reincarnation I have encountered- nobody could be as stupid as you are for only suffering a single lifetime's head injuries.

I didn't say he was going to play in 2010; I said he is not adding anything to 2010's cause by playing now (in 2009, for you Ozbash).

If Cleary were serious about using the rest of 2009 to prepare for 2010 (which he seems to be implying in the article you posted), why on earth are we persisting with somebody who has failed in 2009, and isn't playing in 2010?
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,983
If Cleary were serious about using the rest of 2009 to prepare for 2010 (which he seems to be implying in the article you posted), why on earth are we persisting with somebody who has failed in 2009, and isn't playing in 2010?

ok einstien, who ?
progress.gif
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
Like that Lowie feature, has some good points in it.

TBH I'm starting to think more and more Cleary is not the right man for us, and everything in his (coaching) style is the opposite of our natural Kiwi game. He's done our defence good since he's been here, but can't help but think it's his gameplan and style that is stifling our players. Gotta be confusing for the younger ones. Do they chance their arm and wing it, or will that get them in strife with the coach. Do I 'shark fin' when I get a try...?! Hmmm, what to do...?!
 

Drzoidberg

Juniors
Messages
1,135
I'm with everyone except Ozbash, play Heremia or John in 7 see who will be back up for next year (because dont look like Johnson gonna get a go,he aint ready....apparently).

And Lowie is quite right resting is needed so relieve Mannering (maybe taylor), Ropati (try brown) and possibly Vatuvei......maybe, but dont use Ah Van because he's just sh*t so not him possibly try a NYC center for exprience, up to speed etc or try Kemp see if he's going to fit in our plans for next year.
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
Yeah, why not try Kemp, why not try and get him into the game plans? They wanted a speedster for the team-got one-then didn't utilise him at all. And somehow that's all his fault.
Can't blame him for this year, he's hardly been there.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
37,089
ok einstien, who ?
progress.gif

Well, given that apparently '2010 starts now', anybody that could potentially be a halfback option in 2010.

John, perhaps?

Seriously, you don't have to be Einstein to follow this logic. You could be one of Pavlov's dogs
 

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