2011 A Crisis Year

[Bundy Rabbit]

I have never been involved with any forum or discussion group before, but being a Souths follower all my life and having waited 40 years for our next premiership maybe it's about time. At the start of last season i thought that for the first time since probably '89' we had a package capable of delivering a top eight finish. After a shaky start at times i thought early on we may be a top 4 shot. What transpired was terribly dissappointing to say the least.I realise we had a huge injury toll but that doesn't disguise the fact that the team played to it's potential probably twice in the whole season.
This year once again i feel we are a definite top eight side, infact i really think our run-on side is approaching the level of our last premiership side but this does in no way guarantee success. There appears to be one huge fundamental difference between our current side and that of '71'
The '71' side played for a club which wreaked a "winning culture". That side could quite often play badly but still come away with the competition points.They had the abilty to recognise when things were not going their way and could somehow tough a game out, taking what few points they could get and defending it. In contrast the current side can quite often play extremely well but still manage to lose the game.
Oh yes i fully realise the game has changed dramatically over the past 40 years and in some ways these days it has become more like a lottery than a game of footy, all in the name of excitement and entertainment but one thing remains..........a good side will still win.
I also get tired at the constant cricisms levelled at John Sutton and Chris Sandow. Has anyone stopped to think that the game is STILL won up front? If the forwards don't dominate the opposition you aint gonna win.Look at the 2 games last year when we did steamroll the opposition pack. Sutton and Sandow had blinders! I listened to Warren Ryan's comments on ABC when we flogged the tigers, it went something like this " the tigers are not playing badly here, it's just a case of South Sydney being too big, too strong, too fast" and then this " It's like watching men playing against boys"
We know just what our pack is capable of because we have seen it.The thing is........they need to do it EVERY game.There is not another pack in the competition who can stop our blokes and they need to realise it. Not by individual play either but as one unit.Look at the forward pack of the '71' side........... all great individual players but together they were united into a solid unit that punished opposing teams with telling effect. Our current pack is good enough to do the same thing and if we are to be successful...........they NEED to do it.
Many years ago John Sattler was asked " What is your job in the team" his reply was......" My job is to shorten the odds" Now i know you can't do things on a footy field like you could back then but basically his answer still applies today. Dominate the opposition up front (shortening the odds) and then the backs will finish the job and our backs ARE up to the task.

 

[Galeforce]

Bundy,
you do raise a good point .
In one sense we do have one of the best packs in the competition , however we did have a fundemental weakness , our PROPS. We have the best backrow in the NRL and when all fit a great bench , however our starting props were relatively SMALL.
Due to injury last year we needed sign up two "backwater props" to finish the season, both Lowe and Stapleton , actually played OK , however were not dominating.
Roy did not start to fire last year until the backend , by which time we had already run into injuries. Roy is a SMALL prop , however when fully fit he can make up for that , however when he is not fit , he can be easily subdued.
Stuart , great workload , however , he is NOT a rampaging prop , or a damaging one. He does NOT dominate. Who is the last person that Stuart hurt , took out of game legally? How often does he rampage and bend the opposition defence. Both Roy and Stuart are in my mind , backrowers who by neccessity are playing props , and this has been our achilles heal. We have a great forward pack , full of backrowers.

Geddes , whilst not a giant , will do , however he needs an injury free season to get back his reach his potential mojo and same goes with Ross. Maybe either Sam or Taylor will need to have their style changed to play a front row forwards game. We need to fully dominate and HURT in the middle of the rucks.

 

[Bundy Rabbit]

Point taken, however once again i refer back to '71' Lurch O'neil was a big man and a damaging runner but the fella who did the most damage was Sattler, a small man and as you say, he was also really a backrower.I see a lot of Sattler in Roy but i can only assume that he has played long periods unfit or as i might suspect, he has at times got tired of being a one out trying to lead the team. The key word is "pack"
That '71' pack played as ONE destructive force, helping eachother and covering for eachother.They as a unit were not the biggest but they sure were the toughest. Sattler was the man who put the fear of god into every opposing player. Perhaps you are right in that Taylor could be moulded into a front rower.I really do think the ingredients are there it's a matter of getting the mongrel into them to drive them.

 

[jackb]

Some excellent input from you guys - well done Bundy & Galeforce.

Yes, the game is won in the forwards and yes we do have the pack to get the job done. I am confident of a big year and I believe that our props will match anything other teams will throw at us. Roy does remind me of Satts and he looks fitter and stronger this year than I have ever seen him. Ben Ross is keen and will improve but it will take time. Scott Geddes and Luke Stuart will hold strong and will not let the team down.

Provided we are o.k. with injuries our halves will have every opportunity to fire. If they fail when playing behind a rampaging pack then there is little hope for them. If they take advantage and keep the roll on to players like GI, Farrell and Merrit then all will be well.

On a side note, I read on another site that Issac has signed a new 4 year deal but will not be announced until his management issue is all sorted. Also heard that Beau will be back with us next year.

 

[boo_boo]

For 2011 we have put ourselves under pressure & we have to play to the highest standards possible imaginable & anything less than a Top 4 spot will be looked at with scrutiny as the expectations of having a side with so much talent must in the very least be in contention for a position this high after the competition rounds.
Our forwards need to deliver each & every one of them & players like Wesser, Merrit, Sutton, Talanoa & the younger blokes like Farrell & VaiVai need to feed off everything that Ingliss does to make sure they do their jobs as well & not expect Ingliss to do everything by myself.
Now the comparisons between the 1971 side & today's Souths side are sometimes inevitable but it still makes me laugh because in 1971 Souths players played for the honor of wearing that famous Red & Green jersey where a man's mateship & trust were characteristics that could never be bought but today it's all about worshiping Rusty & his cheque book more than the club itself.

 

[Bundy Rabbit]

That's a good reply Boo_Boo and one thing which i never factored in.I'll tell you a story from the 70 GF and then well see how many of us think these things could still happen in todays game. Bob Mcarthy said in previous grand finals to 70, when the boys took the field there was always a great feeling of confidence and a feeling that they could indeed win. In 1970 he said that feeling was not there and there was some apprehension amongst the players as they were up against a red hot aggressive Manly side. " The worst possible thing Manly could have done was to break Satts jaw because from that moment on......... we couldn't lose" No matter how much money is involved today, i for one still think there is a thing called "mateship" in the game.

 

[boo_boo]

Bundy, whilst i think that the privatisation of most NRL clubs is inevitable i believe that the game has suffered & is no longer a sport we can no longer call a working mans game.
Individual players can still maintain the value of mateship but the way the game has developed it's hard to go out & disagree with anything your club CEO's / Owners / Sponsors say or do because it doesn't look good when made public.
I dont cop this crap that Beau Champion was happy to leave Souths & if you asked most punters in the pubs of South Sydney what they think about it then i'm sure there will be a lot of negative opinions that disagree with his departure.
Mateship is a sacred bond that should never be questioned, challenged or under estimated so that story from Bobby McCarthy is one to saviour as it does relate to everything good about Souths so thanks for posting that.

 

[cleary89]

Cronulla has a better pack then you.

 

[boo_boo]

I rate Cronulla's pack very highly & they will be very competitive this year however i rate your lack of intelligence in trying to stir up arguements relating to another club other than the one you actually support not worthy of any rating.

 

[Newcastlerabbit]

however i rate your lack of intelligence in trying to stir up arguements relating to another club other than the one you actually support not worthy of any rating.

He is a closet Souths supporter,thats why he is on here.

 

[boo_boo]

I wouldn't be so rude to any closet Souths supporters as to compare cleary89 to any of them.

 

[Ziggy the God]

For 2011 we have put ourselves under pressure & we have to play to the highest standards possible imaginable & anything less than a Top 4 spot will be looked at with scrutiny as the expectations of having a side with so much talent must in the very least be in contention for a position this high after the competition rounds.
Our forwards need to deliver each & every one of them & players like Wesser, Merrit, Sutton, Talanoa & the younger blokes like Farrell & VaiVai need to feed off everything that Ingliss does to make sure they do their jobs as well & not expect Ingliss to do everything by myself.
Now the comparisons between the 1971 side & today's Souths side are sometimes inevitable but it still makes me laugh because in 1971 Souths players played for the honor of wearing that famous Red & Green jersey where a man's mateship & trust were characteristics that could never be bought but today it's all about worshiping Rusty & his cheque book more than the club itself.

You could say the same for the majority of sportsmen these days, money rules.

I guess as supporters we also worshiped old Georgey Boy, and that took us down the same path as Annandale, Glebe and Newtown. More than happy with what we have now, it is not even close.

The club has never been run so effectively off the pitch, so management have done their job in that regard. It is now up to the players plain and simple. If they are not good enough, they can f**k off, and I do not care if they are 'Juniors'.

 

[monkey1]

For 2011 we have put ourselves under pressure & we have to play to the highest standards possible imaginable & anything less than a Top 4 spot will be looked at with scrutiny as the expectations of having a side with so much talent must in the very least be in contention for a position this high after the competition rounds.
Our forwards need to deliver each & every one of them & players like Wesser, Merrit, Sutton, Talanoa & the younger blokes like Farrell & VaiVai need to feed off everything that Ingliss does to make sure they do their jobs as well & not expect Ingliss to do everything by myself.
Now the comparisons between the 1971 side & today's Souths side are sometimes inevitable but it still makes me laugh because in 1971 Souths players played for the honor of wearing that famous Red & Green jersey where a man's mateship & trust were characteristics that could never be bought but today it's all about worshiping Rusty & his cheque book more than the club itself.

ok you hate crow and all that but let me tell you something about the days you loved ie the pre crow days. You sprout loyalty and that but what about Fenech being told to look else where when he wanted to stay?? Same with Garlick who had to sue the club to get paid.

Bob Macarthy left souths so no loyalty there. You want to go back to the dark ages then go but crow has begun a transformation of the club that was going nowhere. You have an opinion great but don't leave out the facts.

 

[rabbs]

Gary Stevens also left to got to Canterbury

 

[boo_boo]

Dont hate Rusty just disagree with some of his decisions.

 

[Galeforce]

comparisons to previous periods are fine as generalizations however i see no valid reason to do this when discussing Souths chances this year.
Every club in every sport , from football, rules , olympics can make the same observations.........so what does that really mean for Souths . not much.
A player or team from 1960s or 1970s in any support , would be SMASHED today.
Just like all olympic records from those days have been smashed .
Today the player in any sport , YES , they play for the money , however generally they love their sport . They love their sport , like many do and to make a team or qualify requires PROFESSIONALISM . As such once a player makes elite team or selection , they expect and deserve , the money that goes with that , else there is NO incentive to be professional.
So please get off high horses that state the 1970s team had more pride than the 2011 teams. The 1970s team with their mateship would be killed today!

 

[boo_boo]

Yes it was a very different game back then but it also makes a difference when you achieve these honors through commitment, loyalty & self believe rather than the massive financial incentives which most players (not just Souths) seem to be more reliant on these day's.
But respecting the past is something that will never give us what we ultimately want & that is our 21st premiership & that's why today's game has turned into a fight for survival with being financial stablility a number 1 priority for all clubs if they want to compete in the NRL.
I just cant see the honor in being totally reliant on financial gains when the game is being dictated to by the greed of multi millionaires that have no interest in the game apart from making a profit for themselves.

 

[Mr Spock!]

Souths lost nearly their whole squad in the 70s; Coote, Walters, O'Neill, Branighan, McCarthy, Stevens, Cleary, Moses, Pittard to NSW clubs and Sattler to Qld.

Lurch explains why he left

We were given sandwiches to eat, while the (South Sydney) officials were all wining and dining themselves. We copped it sweet (1970) but the same thing happened the following year (Souths won the 1971 GF). By this stage I had had it. I blew my top and I belted a couple of the old officials right there in the club. Next thing I was on the open market.

http://www.eraofthebiff.com/p-47.html

I would love to see us win a premiership this year, but realistically we have to become a more consistent footy team. Last year we would have a good win then follow it up with 1 or 2 poor losses. In 35+ years of following this team, I have only seen us win 1 finals game. We've had more spoons ffs. We have a coach who won't be with us next year. We're still talking about poor 5th tackle options which we had when Taylor was coach. I don't see 2011 as a crisis year, my expectations aren't as high as some.

It might be a crisis year for some players though.

Having said that if we can keep the nucleus of this side, get rid of the deadwood, and nab a good new coach, we may get to see Souths as a major threat in the coming years.

 

[boo_boo]

It's fair to say that some officials of the past (not all) did take the club for a ride & used us for their own benefits.
I dont think things are any different now.

 

[Bundy Rabbit]

Well, i have been following this team for 48 years and was fortunate to see 3 of the 5 GF's 67-71. So i've now been waiting 40 years for the next win. With the club in the shape it's in now, with the playing staff and coaching staff we have, i'm sorry but we NEED to deliver and we NEED to deliver NOW! If we don't at the very least get a top 4 finish this year then there needs to be some very serious questions asked.
I've been hearing " we'll be a major threat in a few years" for decades. Time to stop the bullsh*t roll up the sleeves and produce a result.