2019 Top 30

[OldPanther]

This presumes we are giving the contracts out to players and doing them a favour. You make it sound like we are a charity - "they will be thrilled". I am sure they will but the players earn their contracts because they are good and talent is in short supply. If another club offers more, they are likely to leave. That is why they get upgrades. With the quality of our juniors, if they get a contract they are probably a junior rep player and considered to be a first grader in waiting.

$100k is great if you earn it for five or ten years, it won't go far in a career that leaves you without a qualification and no future if you leave after a year or two. They sacrifice their education to develop physically and to master their sport, if it doesn't work out they are a big disadvantage over their friends who got diplomas/degrees or apprenticeships. The smart ones study part-time why they are playing but many finish with nothing to fall back on.

If they have nothing to fall back on it's on them. Like you said the smart ones sort it out.

 

[franklin2323]

But it's not is it? Players operate in a free market. We pay minimum wage, the Roosters offer more, game over.

Not every team roster is setup the same though.

Let's look at Shawn Blore. Our backrow is all under 24. Is paying him over the minimum wage going to magically open a spot up? Or is going to make him NRL finals ready?

That is where Gus has failed he still treats our roster like it was back in 2012. Back then we had to keep the up and comers now not so important

 

[franklin2323]

If they have nothing to fall back on it's on them. Like you said the smart ones sort it out.

That is what player managers are for and what NYC did. Forced them to work or Learn

 

[mxlegend99]

If they have nothing to fall back on it's on them. Like you said the smart ones sort it out.

Our club also encourages players to have a plan b for life sfter footy. Everyone knows its not a lifetime career. Could be a long career or short. But you need to plan for after it ends regardless. You can change those plans as options open up. Ie. Going into media.

 

[franklin2323]

Our club also encourages players to have a plan b for life sfter footy. Everyone knows its not a lifetime career. Could be a long career or short. But you need to plan for after it ends regardless. You can change those plans as options open up. Ie. Going into media.

Look at Keighran. We let plenty go even doing it this way. It puts us behind the pack which is dumb

 

[mxlegend99]

Look at Keighran. We let plenty go even doing it this way. It puts us behind the pack which is dumb

Our losses vs gains is all the evidence you need that we're at a disadvantage.

2017/2018 top 25 losses: TMM. Hiku. Moylan. Carty. Latu. Rein. Akauolo.

2018 gains: Maloney. Phillips

2018/2019 losses: Peachey. CHN, Crichton

2019 gains top 30 gains: Malakai Watene-Zelezniak and Tim Grant.

Nearly every loss is an experienced player on a healthy to massive contract. Yet outside of Jimmy, we havent signed anyone that should be on more than minimum wage.

How can the cap have gone up so much ontop of losing so many experienced players and people happily accept it as good cap management? We were in terrific shape capwise and roster wise back in 2015. 2016 was arguably our peak top 25 roster and depth. Which has been seriously depleted the past 2 years.

 

[franklin2323]

Our losses vs gains is all the evidence you need that we're at a disadvantage.

2017/2018 top 25 losses: TMM. Hiku. Moylan. Carty. Latu. Rein. Akauolo.

2018 gains: Maloney. Phillips

2018/2019 losses: Peachey. CHN, Crichton

2019 gains top 30 gains: Malakai Watene-Zelezniak and Tim Grant.

Nearly every loss is an experienced player on a healthy to massive contract. Yet outside of Jimmy, we havent signed anyone that should be on more than minimum wage.

How can the cap have gone up so much ontop of losing so many experienced players and people happily accept it as good cap management? We were in terrific shape capwise and roster wise back in 2015. 2016 was arguably our peak top 25 roster and depth. Which has been seriously depleted the past 2 years.

Sure for next year we were going to be smashed cap wise but Bryce went AFTER Maloney came. Yet we added no one fullstop. Mansour needed to be re-signed for this year and Peachey and CHN have to go as a result? McKendry too at the time he signed it was rumoured to be a big deal

Sure 2020 we were going to be smashed but why couldn't we use Bryce's money for a player on a 2 year deal? Or keep Peachey and CHN?

No way has the cap been managed well.

 

[Abacus]

The part of the equation being missed here are resignings. Cleary, Kikau, Leota, RCG, DWZ (not sure when he re-signed), Yeo all will be on considerably more than they were a couple of years ago. So while the ins & outs haven't changed too much, the amounts paid to each will have been redistributed.

Also 3 guys rumoured to be $700-$800 per year each are still here so not much room to move.

Re-signings seem to be the hardest part of the cap for fans to understand. Players might stay for a little under what they can get elsewhere, but player managers ensure locals don't get significant unders, unless they're signing with the thoroughbreds.

 

[mxlegend99]

The part of the equation being missed here are resignings. Cleary, Kikau, Leota, RCG, DWZ (not sure when he re-signed), Yeo all will be on considerably more than they were a couple of years ago. So while the ins & outs haven't changed too much, the amounts paid to each will have been redistributed.

Also 3 guys rumoured to be $700-$800 per year each are still here so not much room to move.

Re-signings seem to be the hardest part of the cap for fans to understand. Players might stay for a little under what they can get elsewhere, but player managers ensure locals don't get significant unders, unless they're signing with the thoroughbreds.

No one is missing those players getting upgrades. You're f**king the salary cap up pretty bad if you have to shed 10 well paid players over 2 seasons to upgrade a few players znd sign Jimmy.

Top 25/30 losses:
Moylan
Carty
Hiku
Tmm
Latu
Peachey
CHN
Crichton
Rein
Browne
Wallace


Top 30 gains:
Maloney
Phillips
MWZ
Grant

Outside of Maloney, we havent signed a player who should be on more than the minimum wage.

Our cap has been absolutely f**ked beyond belief. We had all of Rein, TMM, Hiku, Carty, Latu and Moylan signed for 2018. We must have been way over the cap at the time.

Our old management copped shit for paying overs to keep players. How is this any different now? Oh other then we pay overs to guys without NRL experience and who probably won't even get a game now.

 

[OldPanther]

Is our cap actually f**ked? We've spoken a lot about it on here but I'm not sure the club has said much outside releasing Peachey xue to the cap.

 

[Kilkenny]

Is our cap actually f**ked? We've spoken a lot about it on here but I'm not sure the club has said much outside releasing Peachey xue to the cap.

It's far from being f**ked. If we stopped developing talented NRL quality within in our ranks the makeup of our squad would look somewhat different as the club would have to be more active in area of external recruitment. Upgrades to Edwards, DWZ, Blake, Cleary, Yeo, JFH, RCG, Kikau and numerous others comes at a cost. Tough decisions have to be made and some players are always going to have to be sacrificed in order to retain other players considered more essential. In Peachy's case he was given advance notice he was unlikely to be retained beyond his deal and that gave him the opportunity to get in early, secure himself a lucrative long year deal with another club. That's business. Suggestions our cap is poorly managed, is ill informed and just plain stupid. Opinions on who should be retained, resigned or released is another seperate issue.

 

[mxlegend99]

It's far from being f**ked. If we stopped developing talented NRL quality within in our ranks the makeup of our squad would look somewhat different as the club would have to be more active in area of external recruitment. Upgrades to Edwards, DWZ, Blake, Cleary, Yeo, JFH, RCG, Kikau and numerous others comes at a cost. Tough decisions have to be made and some players are always going to have to be sacrificed in order to retain other players considered more essential. In Peachy's case he was given advance notice he was unlikely to be retained beyond his deal and that gave him the opportunity to get in early, secure himself a lucrative long year deal with another club. That's business. Suggestions our cap is poorly managed, is ill informed and just plain stupid. Opinions on who should be retained, resigned or released is another seperate issue.

How is having to release players early every season to get under the cap anything other than poor management? It is when other clubs do it.

We're overspending and then having to release quality players early to get under the cap. Our previous management were bagged out for this exact same thing and anytime other clubs do it they get bagged out for it. Rightfully so.But our current management do it and somehow get defended. We did exactly what Bulldogs and Raiders did in spending more than we had available. Like them we have to keep shedding players on decent money.

 

[franklin2323]

The part of the equation being missed here are resignings. Cleary, Kikau, Leota, RCG, DWZ (not sure when he re-signed), Yeo all will be on considerably more than they were a couple of years ago. So while the ins & outs haven't changed too much, the amounts paid to each will have been redistributed.

Also 3 guys rumoured to be $700-$800 per year each are still here so not much room to move.

Re-signings seem to be the hardest part of the cap for fans to understand. Players might stay for a little under what they can get elsewhere, but player managers ensure locals don't get significant unders, unless they're signing with the thoroughbreds.

We saw this week Merrin decide to stay.

What if Bryce, CHN and Peachey also stayed? It is good luck over good management

Only Mansour was off contract last year. The rest we needed money next season for the upgrades. Yet we lost Browne, McKendry. Peachey and CHN before those upgrades kicked in. So wouldn't that be poor management if those guys had no room to even see out their deal

 

[franklin2323]

Is our cap actually f**ked? We've spoken a lot about it on here but I'm not sure the club has said much outside releasing Peachey xue to the cap.

And CHN. Browne was on over minmum wage. McKendry rumoured to be $400k when he re-signed.

 

[Abacus]

No one is missing those players getting upgrades. You're f**king the salary cap up pretty bad if you have to shed 10 well paid players over 2 seasons to upgrade a few players znd sign Jimmy.

Top 25/30 losses:
Moylan
Carty
Hiku
Tmm
Latu
Peachey
CHN
Crichton
Rein
Browne
Wallace


Top 30 gains:
Maloney
Phillips
MWZ
Grant

Outside of Maloney, we havent signed a player who should be on more than the minimum wage.

Our cap has been absolutely f**ked beyond belief. We had all of Rein, TMM, Hiku, Carty, Latu and Moylan signed for 2018. We must have been way over the cap at the time.

Our old management copped shit for paying overs to keep players. How is this any different now? Oh other then we pay overs to guys without NRL experience and who probably won't even get a game now.

Have a look at the names you've mentioned. Not many have been on much cash. Moylan + Latu = Maloney. Carty $500k, Wal & Peachey $350k-$400k, the rest pretty much chickenfeed.
Then resignings:
Yeo from say $200k-$400k
Cleary from $250k-$850k
Kikau $150k-$450k.
Let alone the other guys and Luai to come.

Fact is the jump from minimum salary to regular FG has the most significant effect on the cap - particularly if you have a few. Same thing happened in 2003-2005.

Beyond that, the cap is cyclical, we have 3 guys on combined $2.2m all off contract in 2020. That is when we'll be in the market for 1 or 2 top players (unless the funds are already committed).

 

[Abacus]

How is having to release players early every season to get under the cap anything other than poor management? It is when other clubs do it.

We're overspending and then having to release quality players early to get under the cap. Our previous management were bagged out for this exact same thing and anytime other clubs do it they get bagged out for it. Rightfully so.But our current management do it and somehow get defended. We did exactly what Bulldogs and Raiders did in spending more than we had available. Like them we have to keep shedding players on decent money.

Which quality players?

 

[Abacus]

And CHN. Browne was on over minmum wage. McKendry rumoured to be $400k when he re-signed.

Quick question - CHN or Kikau? Who do you want to keep long term?

Browne's money goes to Grant.

McKendry still on cap until released or insurance confirmed.

 

[OldPanther]

We saw this week Merrin decide to stay.

What if Bryce, CHN and Peachey also stayed? It is good luck over good management

Only Mansour was off contract last year. The rest we needed money next season for the upgrades. Yet we lost Browne, McKendry. Peachey and CHN before those upgrades kicked in. So wouldn't that be poor management if those guys had no room to even see out their deal

Fair point.

 

[Abacus]

We saw this week Merrin decide to stay.

What if Bryce, CHN and Peachey also stayed? It is good luck over good management

Only Mansour was off contract last year. The rest we needed money next season for the upgrades. Yet we lost Browne, McKendry. Peachey and CHN before those upgrades kicked in. So wouldn't that be poor management if those guys had no room to even see out their deal

No, its management. Utilising every dollar of the cap by keeping buffers, prepaying in 1 season for the next season, not committing yourself to a deal if it depends on a player moving until that player is moved, upgrading 2018 or 2019 contracts to lessen the impact in 2020 or 2021.

Merrin staying means there is no room to go for another player should they come on the market. It means you structure Luai's re-signing differently. It may mean losing JFH or extending another player to reduce their 2019 & 2020 amounts to create room, or just eat into any existing buffer.

Peachey & CHN would have been able to see out their deals, but better money and a starting spot was on the table for each of them now at other clubs. We couldn't promise them either of these things.

Flexibility, including moving players if required, in cap management should be seen as a positive, not a negative.

 

[martielang]

Yeh I don’t think our caps in bad shape, as I’ve said before we’ve just made a conscious effort to go all in on our juniors (rather than a mix of journeymen, juniors & a marquee player), our cap/squad reflects that. It’s a different way of managing the cap, it’s got us to a competitive level, it may still take us further. Time will tell.