2020 season

[betcats]

Just looking at the metres gained per set statistic by itself is futile as there are so many other things that can impact it.

Exhibit A: our 11.7 errors per match. If those mistakes occur early in the tackle count that cripples our metres gained. And considering Edwards, Mansour and DWZ are all in the Top 20 for errors last season, it's likely that they were mostly tackles 1 - 3.


Exhibit B: overall field position. NRL Stats has us with the most play the balls inside the opposition 20m. From that position, our yardage is limited.If we start the set inside the 20, the maximum metres we can make in that set us 20m.

Exhibit C: overall effectiveness of our sets. It's not all about making yards with the ball. Things like pinning the opposition within their red zone, scoring points, and getting repeat sets all go hand in hand with winning games. We were mid-pack in this regard. There's a lot of conclusions that you can draw from that too - including, that if our running game is struggling to make yards, our kicking game can help carry the load.

Nothing happens inside a vacuum. Our 40 metres per set wasn't the reason we were shit last year, and doesn't prove that our forwards were shit either. I mean we were shit, but maybe not in the way you're thinking.

TL;DR. Piss poor analysis by the NRL.com


Edit: and beaten above

When every running metres stat points to us being down the bottom of the competition which lines up with what I saw all year then its safe to say we struggled for metres. You can over analyse anything to make it say what you want. Look at the ARM stat for the year, specifically who is at the bottom and who is at the top. its a pretty clear indicator.

 

[snickers007]

When every running metres stat points to us being down the bottom of the competition which lines up with what I saw all year then its safe to say we struggled for metres. Yo can over analyse anything to make it say what you want. Look at the ARM stat for the year, specifically who is at the bottom and who is at the top. its a pretty clear indicator.

James Tedesco had the most handling errors of any player last year. Must mean he's the worst player in the comp right?

 

[betcats]

James Tedesco had the most handling errors of any player last year. Must mean he's the worst player in the comp right?

What a stupid comment. I am saying we didn't make metres easily like others have claimed. I haven't cherry picked one stat and claimed it was definitive. You aren't even close to hitting the mark with this comment.

 

[franklin2323]

That's not inherently negative. A fast play the ball is becoming extremely important, just look at Cameron Murray.

He is more then a quick play the ball though

 

[Pomoz]

What a stupid comment. I am saying we didn't make metres easily like others have claimed. I haven't cherry picked one stat and claimed it was definitive. You aren't even close to hitting the mark with this comment.

Betcats, you seem sure that what you saw was us struggling for metres. What I saw was a team rolling up the field (when it had the ball and not having the lowest possession % in the NRL) without too many problems, showing a complete lack of creativity and then when in the 20m zone, running from side to side hoping a gap would appear.

Given the forward pack issues you saw, can you explain how we had the most sets in the opposition 20? How would having the most errors and therefore he lowest possession percentage, impact that? I don't see, given the data available, how you can draw any conclusions about our forward pack based on run metre stats. Especially when you have the third lowest line breaks, an area where the top 50 is dominated by backs and which gives teams easy metres.

Getting up the field wasn't an issue, the stats support that. As others have said, we toiled inside the 20m zone for endless sets of Cleary ball (turn the ball inside to Kikau/another player [insert player of choice]), this limits the metres made. With a poor pack, we just wouldn't get up the field to get the ball in the 20m zone. We were bottom of the NRL for kick metres, so we didn't get there with the brilliance of our kicking and massive kicks to get field position.

I don't think our pack is the best in the NRL and can be improved, but I just don't see how it was the problem last year. Tamou and JFH were both top 30 for run metres. I think the truth lies closer to the fact that we don't create line breaks, or tackle breaks and we move the ball from side to side. We have limited dummy half runs and lack creativity making us predictable and easy to defend against. In spite of that, we still roll up the field so we can attack in the 20m zone. The side to side movement in the red zone is what killed our ability to score and kept our run metres low.

Six of our players were in the top 50 for errors. Only two (Kikau and Martin) were forwards. Forwards our problem? Yeah but no.

 

[betcats]

He is more then a quick play the ball though

He would be amazing for us I think. A skilled 13 with fast feet in amongst all our big bodies would be lethal. A Murray or Radley style lock would really suit us imo but we don’t really have anyone in that mould.

 

[betcats]

Betcats, you seem sure that what you saw was us struggling for metres. What I saw was a team rolling up the field (when it had the ball and not having the lowest possession % in the NRL) without too many problems, showing a complete lack of creativity and then when in the 20m zone, running from side to side hoping a gap would appear.

Given the forward pack issues you saw, can you explain how we had the most sets in the opposition 20? How would having the most errors and therefore he lowest possession percentage, impact that? I don't see, given the data available, how you can draw any conclusions about our forward pack based on run metre stats. Especially when you have the third lowest line breaks, an area where the top 50 is dominated by backs and which gives teams easy metres.

Getting up the field wasn't an issue, the stats support that. As others have said, we toiled inside the 20m zone for endless sets of Cleary ball (turn the ball inside to Kikau/another player [insert player of choice]), this limits the metres made. With a poor pack, we just wouldn't get up the field to get the ball in the 20m zone. We were bottom of the NRL for kick metres, so we didn't get there with the brilliance of our kicking and massive kicks to get field position.

I don't think our pack is the best in the NRL and can be improved, but I just don't see how it was the problem last year. Tamou and JFH were both top 30 for run metres. I think the truth lies closer to the fact that we don't create line breaks, or tackle breaks and we move the ball from side to side. We have limited dummy half runs and lack creativity making us predictable and easy to defend against. In spite of that, we still roll up the field so we can attack in the 20m zone. The side to side movement in the red zone is what killed our ability to score and kept our run metres low.

Six of our players were in the top 50 for errors. Only two (Kikau and Martin) were forwards. Forwards our problem? Yeah but no.

Im not saying the errors didn’t effect our metres, but do you really think the errors had such an effect that we are dead last in metres per set, 11th in PCT metres and 12th in ARM despite being able to make metres easily? It’s ridiculous . Having the most attacking sets in the 20 has far more to do with our inability to score tries then it does with our ability to make metres, we had many repeat sets this season which has contributed also to having more attacking sets in the twenty. The roosters had a a bottom 3 completion rate and yet they ran for the most metres. The roosters had the most errors in the competition and yet they ran for the most metres. So I think you are over blowing the impact making lots of errors has on running metres quite a bit. As for our backs being the problem because they made errors, as snickers just pointed out Tedesco made the most errors, does that make him a problem for the roosters?

I think our backs certainly need to improve, I’m just arguing the idea that signing some good forwards is stupid because we made metres easily as has been claimed, because we did not make metres easily.

 

[franklin2323]

We know where we sat for errors, Missed tackles etc so won’t post them.

Fox Stats backs up the NRL.com ones. 2 different stats virtually the same numbers

13th in run metres
16th kick metres
13th tackle busts
12th linebreaks
11th linebreak assists
12th try assists
11th total runs

very few of those stats are due to outside backs. So I don’t see how we wasted money on the 3 we signed given what they bring to the table

 

[franklin2323]

He would be amazing for us I think. A skilled 13 with fast feet in amongst all our big bodies would be lethal. A Murray or Radley style lock would really suit us imo but we don’t really have anyone in that mould.

Kenny is the closest we have

 

[Dave's mate]

Kenny is the closest we have

What if May is still at the club?

 

[franklin2323]

What if May is still at the club?

He was the hope to play that role. Not sure where he sits now

 

[betcats]

What if May is still at the club?

He could be an old school lock for sure. I don’t think he has the speed of a Murray off the mark though.

 

[CCJohnC]

Kenny is the closest we have

What about Liam Martin?

 

[Westernised Panther]

What about Liam Martin?

I like the idea of Liam Martin at lock. But has he ever played in that position?

 

[OldPanther]

Im not saying its a negative or he is a negative over all, not even close. But when I say he lacks impact running the ball that is what I mean, he doesn't bend the line or make many post contact metres. Fast play the balls are very valuable and its nice to have some variation but the best props, the rep level props move the defensive line back.

Cam Murray has a lot more to offer then just fast play the balls, he and Leoata aren't the same player so its not a fair comparison for Moses really.

Oh definitely not, the comparison was more that there is a positive attribute we can get out of him. Cam Murray is 50x the forward Leota is. I do take you're overall point though. It makes sense.

 

[Blade23]

I like the idea of Liam Martin at lock. But has he ever played in that position?

Yes played plenty in lower grades at lock. He runs a good line thats why he gets shifted to the edge.

He started half a dozen games last year at lock in fg. Our wins over Souths, Chooks and the Warriiors IIRC.
He loves the competitiveness, hits hard and runs a good line. He is a good defender but needs a little work on defence. He made a few bad reads last year, to be fair some when he got tired.
I think he will make an excellent lock in years to come as his game grows.

 

[franklin2323]

What about Liam Martin?

He is the forward that most excites me but he tackles hard. Runs hard but not very creative

 

[franklin2323]

I like the idea of Liam Martin at lock. But has he ever played in that position?

He was a lock coming through the grades

 

[Kilkenny]

Yes played plenty in lower grades at lock. He runs a good line thats why he gets shifted to the edge.

He started half a dozen games last year at lock in fg. Our wins over Souths, Chooks and the Warriiors IIRC.
He loves the competitiveness, hits hard and runs a good line. He is a good defender but needs a little work on defence. He made a few bad reads last year, to be fair some when he got tired.
I think he will make an excellent lock in years to come as his game grows.

Liam Martin really good debut season, he is gonna benefit from that enormously and I am expecting him to have a really good 2020 regardless of where Ivan plays him.

 

[OldPanther]

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