A Pinch of Salt

[Bazal]

Care to offer any with some evidence?

Mate we are talking about rugby league. The 1, 7 and 9 are generally considered the most important positions in rugby league and history shows who has won premierships in these positions

Some athletes are better suited to collisions and power. Others are better playmakers and decision makers. You need to get the balance right. Parra have not

I just did, you conveniently ignored it. You wanna know the difference between league and union halves? League call ours five-eighth, halfback and hooker and RU call them inside centre, flyhalf and scrum half. So why, then, are there premiership and world cup winning players in those positions in rugby union if you believe that whatever the hell a "pepper" player is cannot achieve that?

The fact is simply that, if we are talking Polynesian players (given you are too cowardly to say it outight, it's difficult to tell) they simply end up in other positions in rugby league because as kids they tend to be larger than Anglo kids. There is a rich history of excellent halves in rugby union, which you may also recognise as the DOMINANT CODE in Polynesian nations. You want "pepper" halfbacks? Look at their dominant code and stop being insular.

 

[Bazal]

Fiji is not part of Polynesia...but I cannot confirm if they are pepper or not

F#ck off, our Fullback is a Westy Bogan Houso...His father might be Fijian, but he has lived his life like every other Westy Bogan Houso from Campbelltown.

:lol:

Wait....are you drunk...or am I?

 

[Joshuatheeel]

But he's old. And expensive. And our second row, which has done pretty well this year, will have 12 months more experience at this time next year. Edwards, Moeroa and Ma'u - who do you want to drop for a 950k 31 year old? I think the money could be better spent elsewhere, like prop.

It aren't $950k , manly have to pay as least $300k of it as it is some type of rep bonus and he could take less. Watmough doesn't play on the edge like the players mentioned he plays in the middle, which would provide a similar result as buying a prop but he can play 80 mins and would offer more in defence with his line speed. I see it like this "we have plenty of kids but no father to guide them, no matter what age fathers can always provide guidance"

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I just did, you conveniently ignored it. You wanna know the difference between league and union halves? League call ours five-eighth, halfback and hooker and RU call them inside centre, flyhalf and scrum half. So why, then, are there premiership and world cup winning players in those positions in rugby union if you believe that whatever the hell a "pepper" player is cannot achieve that?

The fact is simply that, if we are talking Polynesian players (given you are too cowardly to say it outight, it's difficult to tell) they simply end up in other positions in rugby league because as kids they tend to be larger than Anglo kids. There is a rich history of excellent halves in rugby union, which you may also recognise as the DOMINANT CODE in Polynesian nations. You want "pepper" halfbacks? Look at their dominant code and stop being insular.

How many rugby halves have ever made it in league? And what flavour were they?

 

[Noise]

I just did, you conveniently ignored it. You wanna know the difference between league and union halves? League call ours five-eighth, halfback and hooker and RU call them inside centre, flyhalf and scrum half. So why, then, are there premiership and world cup winning players in those positions in rugby union if you believe that whatever the hell a "pepper" player is cannot achieve that?

The fact is simply that, if we are talking Polynesian players (given you are too cowardly to say it outight, it's difficult to tell) they simply end up in other positions in rugby league because as kids they tend to be larger than Anglo kids. There is a rich history of excellent halves in rugby union, which you may also recognise as the DOMINANT CODE in Polynesian nations. You want "pepper" halfbacks? Look at their dominant code and stop being insular.

So you have no evidence in league. It is completely different game to union. A union 5/8 does a completely different job to a league half in regards to running the ball, putting players into space and kicking the ball. You can not compare the two.

 

[magpie4ever]

:lol:

Wait....are you drunk...or am I?

No, Fijians are melanesians.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

So you have no evidence in league. It is completely different game to union. A union 5/8 does a completely different job to a league half in regards to running the ball, putting players into space and kicking the ball. You can not compare the two.

Why can't you compare the two? They're pretty similar games. And he's talking about the players who are in the primary decision-making roles.

 

[Bazal]

So you have no evidence in league. It is completely different game to union. A union 5/8 does a completely different job to a league half in regards to running the ball, putting players into space and kicking the ball. You can not compare the two.

Spoken like a man who has never played either. Inside centre and five eighth are almost identical, except that inside centre is harder because you have much less space. And you do kick less. It's actually rather easy to compare hooker and scrum half, halfback and flyhalf too. It's just that you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your argument.

Can you even name any Polynesian halfbacks? Absence does not equal inability. But I'll start you off with Stacey Jones.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

It is widely reported that manly owe him 350k from rep bonuses that have not been paid. This can't be passed on and will be included in their cap. This is why i can't see them releasing him.If he leaves it will likely be 600k for whichever club he goes to

It aren't $950k , manly have to pay as least $300k of it as it is some type of rep bonus and he could take less. Watmough doesn't play on the edge like the players mentioned he plays in the middle, which would provide a similar result as buying a prop but he can play 80 mins and would offer more in defence with his line speed. I see it like this "we have plenty of kids but no father to guide them, no matter what age fathers can always provide guidance"

Yes, I know the situation. But how much will we have to pay? 600k? At that it's close to a yes for me, but just a little too expensive. And that's just the first year. He's getting older. And more injury prone. Although as suggested, his experience could prove invaluable. But I just worry about how much of our cap that experience is going to eat up.

 

[Chipmunk]

I just did, you conveniently ignored it. You wanna know the difference between league and union halves? League call ours five-eighth, halfback and hooker and RU call them inside centre, flyhalf and scrum half. So why, then, are there premiership and world cup winning players in those positions in rugby union if you believe that whatever the hell a "pepper" player is cannot achieve that?

The fact is simply that, if we are talking Polynesian players (given you are too cowardly to say it outight, it's difficult to tell) they simply end up in other positions in rugby league because as kids they tend to be larger than Anglo kids. There is a rich history of excellent halves in rugby union, which you may also recognise as the DOMINANT CODE in Polynesian nations. You want "pepper" halfbacks? Look at their dominant code and stop being insular.

Rugby and League are different games. And there is little to no correlation of positions, accept for outside backs (wing and fullback and outside centre).

For starters, Sonny Bill is an Inside Centre in Rugby and so apparently will Sam Burgess. Are either of these two genuine league five-eights? Their edge forwards.

The position of five-eighth in League no longer really exists. The position of five-eighth in union is closest to a half in League. Who was the last polynesian NZ All Black five-eight?

 

[Noise]

Why can't you compare the two? They're pretty similar games. And he's talking about the players who are in the primary decision-making roles.

As pou mentioned, how many polynesian union 5/8's have successfully transitioned into league? Why is that the case?

Because in union you are generally passing or kicking every time you get the ball. If they die with the ball they are likely to get rolled and lose it. There is less decision making involved. Count how many times a union 5/8 runs the ball. They will almost always kick or pass straight away.

Then there is the defensive side. Union 5/8s do not make many tackles. And defence is an attitude. I wonder why they wouldn't make it in league?

 

[magpie4ever]

Spoken like a man who has never played either. Inside centre and five eighth are almost identical, except that inside centre is harder because you have much less space. And you do kick less. It's actually rather easy to compare hooker and scrum half, halfback and flyhalf too. It's just that you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your argument.

Can you even name any Polynesian halfbacks? Absence does not equal inability. But I'll start you off with Stacey Jones.

I don't think Stacey was - Iranian mom or dad, and Anglo - the other. Could be wrong, though.

 

[Chipmunk]

:lol:

Wait....are you drunk...or am I?

I'm all good here mate.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Maoris don't count in this discussion. They are smaller and leaner than the types of people we are discussing in this thread. Case in point - Stacey Jones and Benji Marshall.

And although anthropologists consider Maoris to be Polynesian, the Maoris themselves self-identify differently. So there is clearly a distinction.

 

[Bazal]

Rugby and League are different games. And there is little to no correlation of positions, accept for outside backs (wing and fullback and outside centre).

For starters, Sonny Bill is an Inside Centre in Rugby and so apparently will Sam Burgess. Are either of these two genuine league five-eights? Their edge forwards.

The position of five-eighth in League no longer really exists. The position of five-eighth in union is closest to a half in League. Who was the last polynesian NZ All Black five-eight?

Sonny Bill played inside and outside centre and was far better at outside. Burgess will not be a successful inside, I will bet anything on it. I doubt he'll seriously even play there, he's more likely to be No 8 Imo.

It is, however, another correlation between inside centre and five eighth. Both are no longer defined roles or even necessarily playmaking roles depending on team structure....under the conditions stipulated by the pepper shakers I would suggest Matt Toomua and Christian Lealiifano qualify, for example. At least until they shift the goalposts again.

The point is more that these are decision making positions, something that their ill defined pepper players are incapable of performing. Yet they do so anyway

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Yes, I know the situation. But how much will we have to pay? 600k? At that it's close to a yes for me, but just a little too expensive. And that's just the first year. He's getting older. And more injury prone. Although as suggested, his experience could prove invaluable. But I just worry about how much of our cap that experience is going to eat up.

Without knowing what our cap was, I would be happy to not resign seffa ( saving guessing approx $350-450k over two years ), releasing allgood to another club for $75k ( guessing he is on $120-150k per year, saving approx $110k over two years, and alvaro can take his spot) . That frees up around $450-550k, then offer watmough $800-1000k for two years, that's assuming we gave $350-450k free in our cap over the next two years. But it's all a guess, as I know f**k all about our sides cap figures.

 

[magpie4ever]

Maoris don't count in this discussion. They are smaller and leaner than the types of people we are discussing in this thread. Case in point - Stacey Jones and Benji Marshall.

And although anthropologists consider Maoris to be Polynesian, the Maoris themselves self-identify differently. So there is clearly a distinction.

I agree re: Maoris - very different in build (different facial features etc), but are you sure Stacey Jones was maori?

Luke from souffs is Maori?

 

[Bazal]

I don't think Stacey was - Iranian mom or dad, and Anglo - the other. Could be wrong, though.

I'm certain Jones has Maori background

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

As pou mentioned, how many polynesian union 5/8's have successfully transitioned into league? Why is that the case?

Because in union you are generally passing or kicking every time you get the ball. If they die with the ball they are likely to get rolled and lose it. There is less decision making involved. Count how many times a union 5/8 runs the ball. They will almost always kick or pass straight away.

Then there is the defensive side. Union 5/8s do not make many tackles. And defence is an attitude. I wonder why they wouldn't make it in league?

Maybe because, although the games are similar, they are just different enough to make the transition in crucial positions very difficult. And I don't recall a great many of their best coming over to league.

 

[Chipmunk]

It was more of a reference to the fact he quoted the same post for two completely opposite responses that amused me. But thanks for further clearing up the pepper mystery. Apparently Melanesian is also not pepper

My posts had nothing to do with each other. In one I was saying what island group Fiji was part of. In the other I was saying that our fullback is not Fijian., which had nothing to do with whether Fiji was part of polynesia or not.