A players perspective...

[imported_SaintDoc]

We all like to sit here and disect this joint venture, deciding what it is like and how it can be improved. I was quite interested when i came across this information of Mundone's career, written by The Man himself. Here are some interesting thoughts of his you might like to comment on.
1999
This was the year when St George and Illawarra joined forces
and became united. The media tried to make out things were
going bad, for instance the big thing about Barrett, but there was
nothing there. He's a talented player but it 's very hard to replace
"The Man". You know what I mean.
It was a successful year in terms of the joint venture, but at the
time I felt that it was a one sided affair. The writing is on the wall
for Illawarra to just sort of take over.
2000
During 2000 I made the choice to leave Rugby League all
together. There were a number of reasons why I made that
decision. Firstly, I felt that Illawarra had taken over since the
Chief Executive Brian Johnston left. This could be seen when
David Waite lost the coaching job for 2001.
The racism that exists in the game also contributed. I felt it
interrupted my game and the whole infrastructure had changed.
Also the fact Rugby League is limited in its exposure to the world
and boxing is so global was another factor.
I now look back and see the effects that racism has had on the
game. They know what I meant not just to the club, but to the
whole league. In a way I feel rugby league doesn't have
characters and it doesn't have individuals. It has people who are
playing diplomatic roles which is boring. In my view rugby union
is starting to take over, slowly but surely, and they have to do
something to let people know that rugby league is still the
Number One game.
I also think that the merger between Saints and Illawarra is very
sad. St George has really lost a lot of its soul and passion within
the team, within the club and within the fans, and I know for a
fact that players, officials and fans still aren't happy and I don't
think they will until St George go back to one identity.

 

[Willow]

I agree totally with the view that the Dragons need to be called 'St George' again.
I know this flies in the face of Illawarra's contribution and also goes against my previous 'lets work together' stance but I think it's become pretty obvious that Mundine is right on that point at least.
He is just stating what many already feel.
While I'll always acknowledge the Illawarra connection, I think we can no longer deny the claims of St George.
The St George Dragons have too much to offer the game in spirit and heart just see it all being pushed into the poste scripts of history.
First we need a home ground, then we need to get the name back.
IMO, both issues are not going to go away.

 

[imported_Noodles]

Willow, are you suggesting the joint venture should just change it's name to St George, or do you think the 2 should de-merge Norths/Manly style.
I'm from the Illawarra side, and I think we have lost so much more from this merger it is laughable.
Maybe there is a strong Illawarra presence within the officials, but on the field is what matters. It looks like a St George jumper with a St George logo. When I go to games, I still wear my Steelers jumper and I stand out like dog's bollocks !
The Illawarra has been a great Rugby League area for a long time, and while the region is still growing, the game is going backwards in terms of players and crowds at games.
Losing the Illawarra from the NRL would not be wise.
I would love it if the 2 clubs started again on their own. In my opinion the Illawarra region is large enough for it's own team- we have suffered because of the club's adminstrators (especially Bob Millward). We have proved we can get plenty of support during the early 90's, but for some reason lost momentum
but that's another topic .... )

 

[Willow]

Noodles. No I'm suggesting that the clubs de-merge.
I think the merger was a good thing.
It's been suggested that we go back to being called St George, that's all. I still believe there should be 50% games in Wollongong. The other 50% at the StGeorge Stadium when that gets going.
I fully acknowledge the history of Illawarra and I'm well aware of some of the great players who have come from there.

One compromise is that we have the team called 'StGeorge Dragons' and we maintain the trading names of 'Illawarra Steelers' & 'St George Illawarra Dragons'.

As you can see, I'm from the St George side. I want to maintain the official history of St George. As far as the fans knew, re-starting the history was not part of the deal.
We were also supposed to keep our respective1st division teams.

BTW, I admire the fact that you still wear your Steelers jersey. Sorry to hear that there are not more Steelers jerseys in the crowd.

 

[Willow]

That firs line went horribly wrong.
It should have read: No I'm NOT suggesting that the clubs de-merge.
Sorry about that.

 

[Hass]

I know the "Blood & Bandages" is a great away jersey, but...

I've had a thought. Illawarra feel they have been taken over in this merger. The away jersey is only worn about 4 times a year. Would it be too much too ask for a Scarlet Jersey with a White V for the away strip?

It'd really go a long way towards harnessing Illawarra support for the merger- then, there could be some justification in simply calling them St.George again. However I'd still keep the Illawarra in the name but take on the St.George history. The statisticians could look on it as a name change to get around this problem (that's just to keep the history alive).

Eventually I see more game being played in Woolongong than Sydney, and I think that's fair. Just as long as there's a few matches kept in Sydney.

Cheers.

 

[imported_Noodles]

I've probably missed an earlier discussion about history, so excuse my ignorance !
Who has decided that the history starts again? (I was in England in 98 & 99 when the merger took place).
I remember in the grand final Ray Warren continually mentioning that this will be the 16th premiership, the 1st as a joint venture a few times (sorry to bring that game up). I have always thought both club's history has included (including the 92 Tooheys Challenge Cup)
One of the only good points of the merger for me was the fact I will now be supporting a club with a good history !
Losing the history appears to be the problem, and rightly so. If the reason the history is lost is because the club is now a JV, then if the club stays a JV but with a different name surely nothing will change.
St George's and Illawarra's history just cannot be forgotten about. Who is this guy that said the history is lost - and where does he live.

 

[Willow]

Noodles. Sorry mate, I didn't mention that.

The official history of NRL teams is compiled by League historian, David Middleton.
I say 'official' because that's what the NRL say. However, IMO, there is nothing official about this. It is just a simple way of dealing with JVs.

Sadly, both the St George and Illawarra Leagues Clubs seem to be going along with this and according to officialdom, the next Dragons premiership will be their first.

Offcourse the history exists and offcouse it is recognised by the fans (and much of the media) so who gave bureacracy the right to change things?
IMO, this is like saying it's OK to lay on railway tracks because trains don't exist.
Sooner or later, for better or worse, the train will come hurtling through.

As you rightly mention, a number of Illawarra supporters enjoyed the idea of merging with the history. As you know,both the St George and Illawarra districts already have a RL history which is closely inter-twined. To my way of thinking the continuation of the St George history would be popular with 'both sides'.

Hass, you're idea of the Steelers jersey being the away jersey was pushed for but never happened. I couldn't see anything wrong with the idea either.

 

[TheSaint]

The Blood and Bandages are an away strip. A part from trial, St George hadn't worn that styled jumper since playing Great Britain in the 60's, yet it still was the only viable option.

If the club (note the word club) is not St George, then why don't they change the badge, get rid of the V. Who cares if we are only 3 years old. This is not going to happen so you can see the hypocracy in nulifying our great record, yet holding onto other various traditions.

I don't mind being called St George Illawarra. I'd rather look at the J/V as an Expansion/ half relocation with new board members from the new region that the club is to represent invited to the board.

As for how records go: next Premiership St George Illawarra 16 (St George 15). St George records would continue. The Club would be a continuation of St George. Any player from the Illawarra would all so be acredited withgames representing the Illawarra. I'm tired now so I might have to explain myself a bit better.In regards to the Illawarra, it wouldn't be an extension of the Steelers but morethe idea of representing the region, whether it was for St George Illawarra or the Steelers. This way, the might of St George lives and the contribution of the Illwarra is recognised.

 

[Willow]

Saint, I think we're pretty much in agreement nowadays that we want the best of both worlds on this issue. I can't see a reason why we can't have an official policy which suits both St George and Illawarra.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall that we were once opposed on this. You were anti Ilawarra and I was pro 'harmony' LOL. Now we're both leaning inwards. Yeah, I'm a bit tired too.
Anyway, it's an important issue and one which we should keep debating and eventually bring to the the club's notice.

 

[imported_Noodles]

History and tradition are important to any sport - more so than money, big soul-less plastic statdiums etc that the NRL seem more interested in. St George has one of the best histories, and it is not in the games interest for the NRL to try and forget about it.
It isstrange that they have taken this stance, based on what it seems like one man's opinion which defies both common sense and fan's views. (I suppose this is a history and tradition of the NRL now !!)
But I don't think that the public will forget about St George's past, and I would doubt the people of the Illawarra would be opposed to the 15 premierships being a part of the history of St George Illawarra.
If I am right - can we <u>please</u> still have Illawarra in the club's name )

 

[imported_SaintDoc]

Well, in a desperate attempt to get more replies in my first discussion on this forum, I have decided to take a 90 degree turn here, whilst still keeping tru to the title of the thread. The following is a section of Trent Barrett's Mercury column about the Cowboys loss. WHat do you think?

"Losing 34-10 to North Queensland up in Townsville was a big shock for
everyone at the Dragons."
"Leading up to the game, there was no sign of what was to happen. We
trained well and we were confident of winning without being
over-confident."
"We were in a position that we hadn't been in too many times this year
where we could have jumped to sixth spot with a win."
"Basically, we failed."
"It was a challenge for us and we didn't come up with the goods up there."
"I think we played our worst game of football for the year, whereas the
Cowboys probably put in one of their best performances."
"They completed 100 per cent of their sets in the second half and when you
do that, you will more often than not finish on top at full-time."
"Some of our mistakes were just plain dumb - the sort of things we're not
expected to do at this level."
" A few of the other results went our way which was lucky for us, but we
don't want to be relying on other teams losing for us to make the top eight".
" We had our video session post-mortem yesterday and it's all in the past and
we need to focus on beating the Panthers on Saturday night."
" I had a chat with Penrith hooker Craig Gower the other day and he said
they were all pumped up to knock us over."
"The Panthers are coming last and they've got nothing to lose, which they
showed on the weekend when they beat the Roosters. They have found a
way to win again and we're next in line."

 

[Willow]

Interesting.
Is Barrett ringing the alarm bells here? It seems to be the case.

 

[imported_SaintDoc]

I think its great to see that the Dragon's havn't taken the loss lightly and realise the enormous oppurtunity afforded to them.
They must realise, that with the Roosters losing last night, they again have the opportunity to leapfrog.
It may be our last chance if we miss it.

 

[Willow]

Actually come to think of it, Gower telling Barrett that Penrith are 'pumped up to knock us over' should be stuck on the change room wall.
By repeating it in the press, Barrett has handed his team mates a bit of extra motivation.
Well done Gower!

 

[imported_SaintDoc]

Maybe Farrar should just tell the team that Penrith are on their mobile phones and not taking us seriously?
Works for some teams...