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Any basketball fans here?

C

CanadianSteve

Guest
How long has this basketball section been here?
I take it there are fewer basketball fans here than NFL fans. Are NBA games available on tv down under?
Aussie Luc Longley has just retired after a fine NBA career.
I saw Andrew Gaze play in the US college champioship game in 1989. A very good player, but I guess a bit slow-footed for the NBA. I'm not even sure if he ever tried out, but I think he must have. I also saw the Aussie women's team play live in Canada in 96 in a pre-Olympic game. They were very good players, and their one piece spandex uniforms were also impressive.:)
I think I've read that the Aussie basketball league is a national one, though I'm sure it's not as big as any of the football codes. How popular is it, and is basketball stronger/more popular in any particular state or region?
The NBA is the sport I follow most and know the most about. I hope this section can keep going
 
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4,446
Steve,
The NBA is on both Foxtel and Optus. Both carriers would show about 2 games a week, being live. The NBL is a national sport, it has had many problems in the past and a myriad of teams have come and gone. Overall, it is probably on a similar level of popularity to Soccer in Australia. It has pockets of followings, the 'local derby' clash between Sydney and West Sydney drew close on 10,000 to the Superdome last week, which is quite a good number of basketball.
It does not have anywhere near the following of the football codes. It has moderate support, although it is played in summer over here, so it doesn't directly compete with the stronger football codes. The Australian basketball scene is looking pretty sick over here at the moment after we lost to the All Blacks (national day of shame!) Although most of our top 5 from the Olympics have now retired, which has caused this poor performance...
To be honest, i know alot more about NBA then the NFL. I dabble in most sports, although i followed the NBA really closely between say 1993 to 1998. The emergence of the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe have led me to believe that another Chicago style dominance is on the way....
The return of Jordan was also good news. He seems to be more then holding his own so far, which is amazing at the age of 38. But it holds true across all sports that age is not a barrier for the elite. Admittedly, im a bit of a Phoenix fan, although i have no real alligence to any side. Vince Carter looks like the next big thing, although in terms of predictions, im looking at Iverson,Duncan and Garnett as the real superstars of the next 5yrs.
Im not sure if you agree, but a major problem i have with the NBA is the length of the season. 82 games is huge, i watch a lot of games and the arenas are quite empty. Its to much to expect home fans to attend 41 games a year. Its even worse in Baseball, about 150 games right? The length is astounding, i dont think you need 82 games to establish who the best teams are. Sure, revenue is a big factor but you could probably earn just as much revenue from each team playing each other twice in front of packed arenas as playing 82 games in 1/2 full arenas....
Anyways, ill help with contributing to basketball threads wherever possible,
Cheers,
MFC.
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
MFC: Too bad you didn't follow the NBA in the 80's when the great rivalry between the Lakers and the Celtics, led by Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, took the league to the heights of popularity. The 90's era you mentioned had the great Jordan and the Bulls, but they didn't have that one strong rival to test themselves against.
I agree about the length of the NBA season. In February and March the season really starts to drag, and many players seem to just go through the motions. That was another impressive thing about Jordan and the Bulls in his prime, he always played hard, without letdowns. In fact I'd say he was always in his prime, every year he played.
Anyway, I always think the NBA playoffs should start as soon as the NCAA championships end in March, cutting the season by 15-20 games. The last few weeks of the NBA regular season, after the college championship is over, usually seem anticlimactic. And the playoffs are long enough anyway. They have talked about shortening the season, but no one is willing to give up any income, owners or players. BTW, baseball plays 162 games, it used to be 154 until about 1960.
You have a good handle on the great young players. I have high hopes for Vince Carter and my Toronto Raptors this year. But I must say that Tracy McGrady, who left Toronto as a free agent before last season, has turned into a star who may be as good or better than Vince soon. They are distant cousins, BTW. Right now Shaq is the most dominant player by far, but Kobe when he plays well is the closest thing to a young Jordan
 
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"Right now Shaq is the most dominant player by far"

That maybe correct Steve, but he is still the shitiest free-throw dominant player by far.

Wouldn't you agree?

R-Bulldog


 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Yes he is terrible, though sometimes he shoots them well in big playoff games. If he did shoot 70-75% regularly, he would be even more unstoppable than he is now. He would probably average 40 points a game.
 
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4,446
Probably right R-Bulldog, although there are a lot of big centres in the NBA who haven't exactly 'mastered the art' of free throw shooting...I recall Shaq being trained by an Aussie guy a few years back, for the life of me i cant remember his name. I wouldn't call Shaq an amazing talent myself. He scores a lot of points through 'intimidation'. No one in the NBA has the bulk and size to post up to him, his physical presence is amazing.
Yeah, i guess you could say that the 80s were the glory days for the NBA. Probably up until 92/93, when a lot of the greats either retired or began to slow down. The Johnson/Bird rivalry was apparently 'something else', although my memories unfortunately do not stretch back that far. Bird was an amazing team player, his accuracy was amazing. I think many have tried since to follow in his mould of play. Talents such as Jason Kidd spring to mind.
Admittedly, i haven't followed the new drafts picks that closely over the last couple of years. However, i do remember watching a game last year with a guy playing for Chicago (Elton Brand....i think), who seemed like a talent.
Apart from the obvious threats this year, i think that San Antonio can't be 2 far off firing. They have got the grunt up front with Duncan and Robinson, they just need an effective guard who is slightly better then Vinny Del Negro, Doc Rivers and/or Avery Johnson!
MFC.
 

imported_Hazy

Juniors
Messages
715
I didnt (dont) follow the NBA but as a kid I was very much aware of Bird/Magic and Celtic/Lakers - anyone else in Brisbane in the 80's who noticed that?

maybe the local TV stations had an NBA fan on staff...
 
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I just cant get into the NBA anymore, it lacks a little spark for mine. I still keep an eye on how the Pistons are doing though,Thomas was & still is my fave player. But since the "Bad Boys Of Detroit" days of Thomas, Laimbeer, Rodman, Mahorn, Johnson, Dumars & Dantley there hasnt been to much to get excited about. Is Zeke still a hunted man around Toronto Steve??
emwink.gif
(I still say he was the scapegoat...hahaha)

For the sake of filling in a gap I've taken to watching/following the collegiate basketball instead. And IMO this leaves the NBA for dead. Given it can look a little rusty at times but the pace & excitement cant be surpassed. Cant go past Clemson there.
 
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Steve, I was a huge NBA fan from about 1989 through to 1995. (The NBA went through a real boom from about 1992 to 1996, in Australia. It enjoyed excellent coverage on free-to-air commercial television each Saturday from about noon. This coincided with the worldwide phenomenon of Michael Jordan. However, like many fads, it did not last, and following the second retirement of Jordan, the NBA disappeared from free-to-air television.) My interest started to taper off after I left school but I still followed the game through till 1998. Unfortunately, I missed the great Lakers-Celtics rivalry, but I still have a pretty good knowledge of NBA history, especially from about 1980 through to 1998 due to my extensive reading, and viewing of basketball shows. When I first started watching, the Pistons were on their way to back-to-back titles, with their hard-nosed defense changing the way the game was played. It wasn't pretty, but they really had the Bulls' number for a good 4 or 5 years, and I felt that they probably helped to mould the Bulls into the team that they became. So while the Bulls' may not have had that one rival to challenge them during their title-run (though, the Knicks put up a pretty good fight in 92-93, as did Utah, to a lesser extent, in 97-98), they certainly had to go through some testing times, against the Pistons, before they were able to become champions. To be honest, I think I was lucky to see the game when I did, because I get the impression that the current NBA doesn't stack up against the game of 10 years ago. Admittedly, I haven't seen much play in the past few seasons, but the game seems to lack the depth of quality players that were around in what I regard as the game's "classic" era. There were so many great players around in the late '80s to early 90's - Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, David Robinson, (H)Akeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, John Stockton, Joe Dumars, Chris Mullin... the list is endless. I felt that while the middle-of-the-road player got better as time went by, not as many stars emerged. Do you agree? Whatever the case, I feel lucky that I got to see, in my opinion, the most remarkable sportsman that has ever lived - Michael Jordan. There have been other great sportsman throughout history, but surely none has performed their sport with as much style as Jordan did, or has left people wandering if they really saw what just happened as often as Jordan did. He is the only athlete that I know of that has to be seen to be believed. He was so much better than his hype, and so much more than just a fancy ballplayer. A superb athlete, freakishly talented, complete at his chosen game, and as mentally tough as they come. As you said, Jordan was seemingly always in his prime - in fact, I can't remember him ever being in a form slump during his entire career (not including his comeback year of 1995, where he had virtually no preparation). Simply amazing. As for the game in Australia, it's been through some ups and downs. Nationwide, the NBL became quite popular during the boom period for basketball, 1992-1996. It was on free-to-air television, had decent crowds, and pretty good media exposure. In Brisbane, my home city, the Bullets had their own period of success, from the late '80s through to the early '90s. They were one of the nation's top sides and often drew sellout crowds of over 10 000 people to their matches. In fact, during this period, their profile was not that far behind the Broncos. However, that was then, and, currently, basketball is struggling as a spectator sport. It has no major sponsor, no free-to-air coverage, and dwindling crowds in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. From what I hear, the Adelaide and Perth teams are relatively successful and have quite a profile, but this probably has a lot to do with the fact that those cities do not have as many sporting teams as their eastern counterparts. Basketball's one big strength, in Australia, is that it has very high levels of junior participation. I'm led to believe that it is neck and neck with soccer as the nation's most popular junior sport. Andrew Gaze is undoubtedly Australia's best ever player. Including NBA players, he was one of the world's best shooters. As you said, he was probably a bit slow to be an NBA star, but I really feel like he was never given a fair opportunity to show his wares in America. He actually had two back-to-back 10 day contracts with the then Washington Bullets and played the entire season for San Antonio during their championship year. However, he got very little game time and was well into his 30's during this time. I honestly believe that, if given the right opportunity, Gaze could have been an excellent sixth man due to his shooting ability and all-around basketball savvy. Another Aussie who has had a bit of NBA experience is Shane Heal. He is probably best known in North America for challenging Charles Barkley to a fight in an exhibition match, in 1996, in the leadup to the Olympics. Barkley needlessly shoulder charged Heal just after he had released a three-point attempt and sent him to the ground. Heal, who is about 6 feet tall, ran after Barkley and gave him a shove. Barkley looked surprised more than anything else, but has admitted to having a healthy respect for Heal ever since. In fact, Heal, who is another fantastic shooter, lit the US up that night, and put up a big score. Following the Boomers' loss in the Olympics' semi-final to the US (Gaze was on fire for this match), where they put up a good battle, Barkley claimed that the Aussies were the toughest team that the US had faced, and that Heal and Gaze should be playing in the NBA. Subsequently, Heal played a year for the Minnesota Timberwolves, and had a couple of standout shooting performances. In fact, in one game, he set a record for 3-pointers made for Minnesota. However, Heal only got very limited court time and elected to leave the NBA. He lacked the athleticism and playmaking skills, for a player his size, to be a success in the NBA, but certainly not the attitude. In fact, during the leadup to last year's Olympics, in another exhibition match against the US, Heal, once again, showed no fear in getting in the face of a much bigger player after a minor altercation - it may have even been Vince Carter. Anyway, I hope that helps out a bit. If you want to discuss the NBA pre-1999, I'd be happy to participate. And, as I have finally gotten pay-tv, I might even start watching this year's season as well.
 

G@v

Juniors
Messages
925
Warlock, Shawn Kemp was at Seattle a few years back, that's probably when he was at his peak. He now plays for the Portland Trailblazers.
 

G@v

Juniors
Messages
925
BTW, we Brits have an NBA star, John Amaechi of the Utah Jazz.
[*]Born in Boston, Massachusetts, but raised in Manchester, England [*]One of Britain's most popular athletes [*]Frequently conducts basketball clinics and participates in community relations efforts for the United Kingdom [*]Standout rugby player who didn't start playing basketball until age 16 (League or onion?) [*]Attended high school at St. John's in Toledo, Ohio, where he averaged 15.0 ppg and 10.3 rpg as a senior [*]Graduated 11th in his high school class [*]Earned a degree in Psychology and is currently studying to obtain his doctorate in Child Clinical Psychology [*]Has his own website (www.meech.org) which includes his "Likes and Dislikes," "Rants and Raves," poetry, diaries and more
 
M

Marcus

Guest
Hey I see we got some hoop fans here!

Its really great to see that Jordan has come back to the game. He will add a lot of spark to the NBA and definitely give the game a better reputation. I have to admit I really don't like when a lot of teenage players get drafted into the NBA. I think they should goto college first and develop proper basketball fundamentals. They need someone like Bobby Knight to teach them how to play basketball the way it should be - teamwork. Hopely with the 'zone' defence being allow now we should see more team orientated play.

When you guys mention rivalries the best for me would be Bulls vs Pistons and Bulls vs Knicks. They would have to be the best. The games that I have seen between them have all being something really special.

Two NBA players that I have always liked have been MJ and Charles Barkley. MJ...because he is just the best sportsman ever. And Sir Charles because of his raw appeal. I have to say I prefered Charles in his 76ers days because he was so wicked. Those two handed jams that he use to do always brought the house down.

I haven't been able to watch the NBA for a couple of years now because it wasn't on free to air. But I've got Foxtel now so it should be interesting to see whats happening.


 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Warlock: Shawn Kemp was an amazing talent in the early to mid-90's. He was a strong, spectacular dunker who played very well against the great Karl Malone in the 96 playoffs, leading Seattle to the finals. He also played well against the Bulls in those 96 finals, though the Bulls won in 6 games.. The next year he had a contract dispute, came into the season late, and gained 40-50 pounds. Since then he has been overweight, was traded to Cleveland and wasn't talked about much anymore. Then last season he was traded to the powerful Portland Trailblazers, got off to a slow start, and went into voluntary drug rehab partway into the season. It remains to be seen if he can come back this year, but his peak years have been a terrible waste of talent. He is also infamous for having fathered numerous children out of wedlock, and has faced several paternity suits. The image-conscious doesn't promote Kemp much anymore, needless to say
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
MFC: Elton Brand was traded to the LA Clippers, for years the NBA's most hapless team, and now they have a good young nucleus of players who may finally make their team respectable. The Bulls traded him for the right to draft a young 7-foot player right out of high school. They also drafted another 7-ft. high schooler, and some think the Bulls will be very strong in 3-4 years when these players mature.
I hate this trend of drafting players out of high school, but it has worked out well for Kevin Garnett, Kobe, and Tracy McGrady. Many others who tried it would have been better to go to college first
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
eels fan: I loved Isiah Thomas and the Bad Boys Pistons, one of my favourite teams. I thought Isiah did a good job of getting our Raptors started as a new team, but there were problems with the original owners and he left under a cloud of controversy. I still like him, but you're right, he's not popular in Toronto. His successor, an unheralded guy named Glen Grunwald, has done a brilliant job of rebuilding the team into an exciting contender this year (I hope).
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Mystery Man: Excellent post - you know a lot about the game. I agree with you about the great players of the late 80's/early 90's, and I lost a little interest since Jordan's 2nd retirement. But the last playoffs were very exciting, except for the Lakers being too strong for everybody, and I think the new stars are starting to emerge. Allen Iverson had a bad reputation for a few years, but had a fantastic season and playoffs this past year. He is an amazing talent for a small guy, and really plays all out all the time.
If Andrew Gaze was 10 years younger he could play for a lot of teams now, as outside shooters are a valuable commodity, especially this coming season when zone defences are going to be allowed. Where did he grow up and learn to play
 
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Andrew Gaze had the advantage of being the son of Lindsay Gaze, who played basketball for Australia and was Australia's longest serving national coach. He grew up in Melbourne.
 
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As Roopy said, Andrew Gaze grew up in Melbourne. He has played his entire career for the Melbourne Tigers, where he has won a few championships and won the MVP and scoring title on countless occasions (more than Jordan in the NBA). He was clearly too good for the NBL, being better than all the American imports and being expected to score 40 points every game. One season, he averaged 43 points per game, and he won last year's scoring title by five ppg, at the age of 36. His father played for and coached Australia, and I'm pretty sure that either the father or son has represented Australia at every Olympics since 1956, as a coach or player. For a detailed summary of his achievements, try this link - http://www.nbl.com.au/players_details/0,2725,48,FF.htm.

I'm a bit surprised to hear about zone defence being allowed in the NBA. In your opinion, is this a good thing? What was the reasoning behind this? I always felt that zones helped to stifle the individual flair of the great offensive players. While I'msure that top players will find a way around, it could result in a less exciting game, in my opinion. Having said that, it will probably mean that players will have to play a better team game, and use their minds a bit more. It will be interesting to see how it all unravels, and whether the NBA will stick with it for the long-term.
 

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