ARL, NRL, QRL, NSWRL, etc...

[alexisUK]

This may seem something odd to bring up in the international section, but as a UK rugby league fan, I'm as bothered as the next guy about the international game. Whenever I hear about someone torpedoing the tri-nations or the world sevens they tend to be from a club or from one of various organisations that run the game in Oz. Can someone either explain what these things are/do, or post some links, because despite spending a good few hours googling things, I can't make head nor tail of it!

Oh yes, btw, I know the ARL was the thing that wasn't the Australian Super League, but beyond that, I've no idea...

 

[DIEHARD]

Well the NRL is 50% ARL and 50% NEWS LTD and they run the club competition, the National Rugby League.

The ARL runs the representative matches and grassroots (ARL foundation). Internationals and Origins.

The QRL runs RL in QLD, and runs the Queensland Cup and QLD MAROONS state of Origin team.

NSWRL runs RL in NSWand the NSW Blues.

The ARL is made up of representatives of the QRL and NSWRL.

Then you have the CRL, COUNTRY RL, which runs RL in Country NSW which is part of the NSWRL. (I think)

Then the weaker and nearly non existant (due to lack of support and funding from the ARL) VRL (Victoria), SARL, (South Australia) and WARL (Western Australia).

Basically the whole thing is one big mess and one of the biggest problems in Australia is to get back to having one governing body and streamline everything.

On the issue of expansion in the NRL, the ARL half of the NRL voted for expansion in the shape of the Gold Coast Dolphins, the News Ltd half shot that down. The ARL must be in control and News Ltd must declare when they will cede their control over rugby league and when our apparent "debt" that rugby league owes because of Super League is paid off....

I don't see us paying back Optus, why should we pay back any money to News... :evil:

 

[yakstorm]

Here is how the structure works in Australia:

At the top level of the game you have the National Rugby League and Australian Rugby League. The National Rugby League is run by the NRL Partnership (which is a 50:50 ownership between the ARL and News Corp) and its main function is the runnings of the 15 team premiership, and also it has since taken over the role of the runnings of City V Country and State of Origin.

The Australian Rugby League is incharge of looking after the national side, as well is the body who overlooks the smaller bodies underneath it, though has minimal say in the runnings of them all.

To throw a real curve ball in, there is a 3rd national body, called ARL Development (formerly ARL Foundation), which is half owned by the ARL, and half by the NRL. ARL Development has two roles, it first is in charge of implementing the national communications and database systems throughout Australia, including the National ID, Kangaroo number, LeagueNet and software and tools to improve the efficency of the Juniors leagues, whilst the other part is trying to make kids take up the game.

Similar to how AFL has Auskick, ARL Development has Kids to Kangaroos, as well will be introducing things like the National after schools program, national registration promotions and so on.

In many ways it is the working arm of the ARL, and junior component of the NRL.

Next there is the state/regional leagues. There is the Queensland Rugby League which looks after the 6 Divisions which look after RL in Queensland.

NSWRL is divided into two components, Phillip St (Head Office) looks after Premier League, Jim Beam Cup and any NSW rep stuff. The next part is the NSWRL Academy in which the Junior League answer too.

Now the NSWRL only looks after Sydney, Illawarra jnrs and Canberra jnrs, the rest is all part of Country Rugby League.

There is of course then the affiliated states of Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia, WA and Northern Territory which make up the rest.

So yeah I hope that sorta answers your question about the bodies.

 

[DIEHARD]

That is a comprohensive answer Yakstorm, I'm sure you just educated alot of people.

What is your view on the News Ltd share of the NRL. Will they ever dissapear? And would it be a good or bad thing? Why do we pay News back and not Optus? Is the money being paid back being accounted for?

Or aren't you at liberty to debate? If so I understand.

 

[alexisUK]

Cheers,
That's a big help! But what debt is owed to News Corp? Did the ARL effectively have to buy them out to unite the game again? And are people still bitter about the super league war? Being a brit, and having discovered the game in its last winter season I haven't really any idea what RL in Oz was like before the split so I'm kinda interested in what went on and how it's changed.

Suppose as I'm here I may as well ask another question though. Maybe I should start a new thread but sod it...

There seems to be plenty of support for international league from every single person I come across either in reality or online or whatever. So where does the reluctance to push the international game come from? Surely the one objective thing that RL will ALWAYS have over AFL in Oz is international competition?

 

[Jeffles]

The complication isn't as bad as people think becuase there isn't much duplication.

Nevertheless it would be good to see more of a pyramid structure where bodies are more directly accountable to the ARL as opposed to being accountable to NSWRL, CRL or QRL. I'd also have one state body for NSW.

IMO, the ARL board should have a rotating position for the Emerging Nations.

Many writers (Hadley, Maghey, Ritchie) advocate that RL should be looked after by one body only and they suggest the NRL. It wil be a cold day in hell when a private company runs the philanthropic ventures of RL.

 

[nqboy]

Cheers,
That's a big help! But what debt is owed to News Corp? Did the ARL effectively have to buy them out to unite the game again? And are people still bitter about the super league war? Being a brit, and having discovered the game in its last winter season I haven't really any idea what RL in Oz was like before the split so I'm kinda interested in what went on and how it's changed.

Before the Super League war, the ARL under Arko and Quayle had grown the game from a huge crisis in the Sydney comp (run by the NSWRL) in the early 80s to a "national" comp with teams in Perth, NQ, Auckland, regional NSW (Knights, Raiders, Steelers), 2 Brisbane teams and more planned. SL brought in Melbourne, Adelaide and the Hunter Mariners (a 2nd Newcastle team) but the last two as well as Western Reds (playing out of Perth) and the South Qld Crushers were wound up as part of the peace deal. That's the story so far...

As part of the peace deal, News got a half share in the NRL, the new body formed to run the club comp. Actually they got more than a half share as they have a veto over the wishes of the ARL half of the NRL. It was agreed that since News had lost a shitload of money fighting the war, they would take an undefined amount of money out of the game for an undefined period until the "debt", their losses, were covered. Where this left Optus, God only knows, the others raise a good point about that but Kerry Packer was playing both sides and cut them adrift when he had a deal that satisfied him. I'm a bit shaky on this last point and others are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

Bitterness still exists about the war. Steelers and Saints fans are shitty they had to merge, as are Tigers and Magpie fans. A lot of Sydney fans are quite insular and blame the expansion clubs for the loss of their traditional clubs. The Broncos, the best run club in the league for years, were at the forefront of SL's fight and they are mostly despised by other teams for their role thought this has lessened with their comparitive lack of success in recent years. Others who joined the SL stable are treated like pariahs by the traditional clubs. In their turn, the ex-SL clubs accuse the traditional clubs of living on past glories.

There seems to be plenty of support for international league from every single person I come across either in reality or online or whatever. So where does the reluctance to push the international game come from? Surely the one objective thing that RL will ALWAYS have over AFL in Oz is international competition?

NRL fans are rightly proud of their comp as far and away the toughest and best comp in the world and often can't see past our noses for the good of the game. It's very similar, on a much smaller scale, to the G14 clubs in UEFA, it's all about self-interest and stuff the game.

Re Farrell's quote about the soft Aussies the other day, if he was ever man enough to come out and play with the big boys in the NRL, he might feel differently about calling us soft. I would suggest that 24 rounds in the NRL is a hell of a lot harder than in the ESL and those extra games they play in SL and the Challenge Cup are more than covered by the demands of Origin, City/Country and the finals series. Farrell's a lot more comfortable taking the big money on offer in England in a much lower standard of comp than testing himself against the best in the world week-in, week-out.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps.

 

[griff]

What is your view on the News Ltd share of the NRL. Will they ever dissapear? And would it be a good or bad thing? Why do we pay News back and not Optus? Is the money being paid back being accounted for?

Buying out News Ltd's share in the NRL would be the best thing for RL in Australia.

They suck $10m a year out of the game which could otherwise be going to development. AFL don't have to do deal with this handicap so are able to spend much more money on growing their game in NSW and Qld (and look at the results).

I think that if the ARL got some finance together of say $80-90m and offered it to News Ltd for 50% of the NRL they would seriously consider taking it. It is not their core business to run a sports competition.

The only reason they are there is Rupert Murdoch's obsession with vertical integration and to ensure News will always get the TV rights. If News were guaranteed 30 years worth of last refusal on TV rights and a seat on the board then they may take the money and run.

Then when the ARL own the NRL they could use half of the $10m each year for paying off the loan and half on development.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

So then NRL has been paying off it's 'debts' for the last 7 years. How many more years until the 'debt' is fully repaid.

And how is this debt actually being paid? Is the NRL making a large profit? That may be so but clubs such as the Cowboys that are owned by News Ltd have been losing money since their inception.

 

[yakstorm]

That is a comprohensive answer Yakstorm, I'm sure you just educated alot of people.

What is your view on the News Ltd share of the NRL. Will they ever dissapear? And would it be a good or bad thing? Why do we pay News back and not Optus? Is the money being paid back being accounted for?

Or aren't you at liberty to debate? If so I understand.

News like a lot of things in life has both its good and its bad points. Its good point is that it is one of the main ones behind the funding of the ARL Development/ARL Foundation in the past few years, with the company offering to pay out of its share of money what the NRL clubs use to pay (it was roughtly around $200,000 for each Australian franchise). They have also been quite proactive in working with a number of NRL clubs to make them self-sufficent and find new sources of income. They aren't completely evil.

Of course we know of the bad side of news' involvement. As for paying News back, that isn't true, News take their share of funds because they are a 50% shareholder. Pretty much it works out in the end the ARL get a flat out $8 million, News get $10 million, though 2 million has to go back into the game in some way, most into ARL development, whilst the rest goes into the NRL's kitty.

News has also been proactive in getting the NRL and ARL behind new concepts which will benefit the game in the long run.

 

[DIEHARD]

Why does News get 10 mill and the ARL 8 mill if the split is 50/50?

If the ARL aren't paying back a debt, why do we always hear about it?

Will NEWS ever piss off?

 

[dimitri]

no news will keep taking money out of the game when they should be putting it into internatonals and world cups

 

[Tidus_Raider]

But you cant have a world cup when only three teams have a realistic chance of winning.

England, Australia, New Zealand. That's it.

Ireland, France, Wales are the second tier. France has played very well recently but they are still a good 3-5 years away from being competitive on a consistent basis with the big three.

Then there is Lebanon , USA and Russia. Russia is the sleeping giant of Rugby League IMO. They have a large number of local players and they have come on in leaps and bounds. They are developing at an exponential rate and will continue to do so.

But I agree that more money should be spent on Internationals. The Tri-series seemingly has no probelm in that department. More should be spent on the Euro-Cup and the Mediterrainian cup.

 

[griff]

Why does News get 10 mill and the ARL 8 mill if the split is 50/50?

In the first 2-3 years of the NRL there wasn't enough money to go round so News agreed to defer taking their share in the profits to subsequent years. So they would get $10m a year instead of $8m.