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Ashes 2013

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
This series is done and dustbowled. Whilst we've been poor it was always going to be an uphill struggle to compete in India when our strength at present is fast bowling - And just turn your minds back 15 months to remember how poor India were in Australia. Polar opposite conditions.

I reckon, however, we are capable of winning the Ashes, in the way 05 England were capable (ie if everything goes right, several things go wrong for the opposition). But we have to look at HOW we will do that very carefully.

The first step is we need to take 100 wickets. The key bowler appears to be Pattinson - get him fit for the Ashes. I sort of agree with Glenn Mitchell, if we lose this test you could almost justify bringing him home. He needs to be conditioned to play five test matches. This doesnt just involve some weights prgram, pumping bicep curls or whatever. He needs to be fit enough to bowl, say 20 overs/innings for five tests. What do fast bowlers do alot of? Running. Just talk to DK Lillie. Get him running, real stamina in his body, and get him bowling frequently, not massive amounts everyday, but a bit everyday, so he is primed. He bowls 200 overs in the Ashes I think that's 25 wickets.

Which means 75 wickets for the rest of them. I think Lyon is good for 15 wickets across the series. He's unlikely to dominate at any point but he is capable of three wickets/test match, maybe more if conditions suit. I'd bring O'Keefe along as well.

Peter Siddle is a workhorse who should also be capable of five tests (should be). He plays 5 tests in English conditions I think that's another 20 wickets.

Which leaves 40 wickets between the rest of them to take. I'm not sure on Bird's fitness for the Ashes, but if he's fit he'd be in my side as well, and could well clean up over there. Others on the party would be Harris if fit, although you could only get one, maybe two tests out of him. They'll no doubt bring Starc as well, although I'd rather Cutting, Faulkner or NCN. Hazlewood cleaning up in the last two SS matches would no doubt see his name mentioned but he isn't ready (although he's amongst the best young quicks around). But I think Hilfenhaus is the one to take. If he's fit he's dangerous in English conditions, and if only for a few tests would be better value than the other options.

Then the all rounder question. Frankly if Watson isnt bowling i wouldnt pick him. He's a selfish cricketer whose record with the bat gives him no right to dictate the conditions under which he is playing. If he wants to be a batsmen only he's averaged 25 with the bat since 2011, and should be dropped. Henriques has shown better application and his bowling will be handy in England also.

So between Henriques Harris Hilf and Bird I think there is 40 wickets. And Watson if he is bowling.

Im interested to see how Wade goes in the next couple of tests. His keeping has been dire, and he's young enough to go back to first class cricket and work on his game should they decide to replace him. He'll make the tour though. Chris Hartley though would be my choice at present. We cant afford to give away cheap byes, and the 5-10 runs less he may average with the bat would be compensated for via less byes and less dropped chances.

Batting. Clarke to 4. He's our best bat in a shoddy top order, 4 is a minimum.

At present I'd stick with Warner and Cowan. Warner's record is second best amongst Australians, despite a rubbish current test match (injury/gastro may have played a factor). Cowan's average isnt great and im far from convinced, but he does generally bat long periods which allows others to build around him.

I think it's time to make some bold calls with the other middle order positions. Will be interesting if Khawaja gets a spot in the next couple of tests. His performances in international colours have thus far indicated a player with all the problems Hughes has shown - gets bogged down and doesnt tick the strike over, then gets out to a rash shot. Needs to increase his range of scoring options.

Doolan has been the best (available) bat in the shield and I would pick him. It's time to try something different in the middle order, and he seems to be going reasonably well, smacked a big ton vs the Saffa's as well.

Honestly I suspect Hughes will be there, with the excuse being that the conditions will suit him better, but im not convinced. In fact I think that he got put in the side without doing enough to earn his spot. Unfortunate for him, not many come back from being dropped three times in the Australian side.

The other option I would consider is Chris Rogers. Yeah he's 34-35 but the Ashes is about the present, not the future (same reason I've come around a bit to Harris, even though I think he's not worth persisting with long term, a few tests amongst the upcoming ten will be handy). Opening with Rogers and Warner, bat Cowan at three, Clarke 4 and Khawaja/Doolan at 5. Burns, despite poor form, is also very much worth considering.

That being said this would be my touring party

Batsmen
Michael Clarke (c)
Ed Cowan
Dave Warner
Alex Doolan
Usman Khawaja
Chris Rogers/Burns (will almost certainly be Hughes)

All Rounders
Moises Henriques
Shane Watson

Keepers
Matthew Wade
Chris Hartley

Fast Bowlers
James Pattinson
Peter Siddle
Jackson Bird
Ryan Harris
Ben Hilfenhaus (no doubt Starc and MJ will figure though).

Spinners
Nathan Lyon
Steve O'Keefe

First test team

Warner
Cowan
Khawaja
Clarke (c)
Doolan
Henriques (Watson if he decides to bowl)
Hartley
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon
Bird

Alot would need to go right for this side to win the Ashes, although over confidence may get to the poms. In 89 they called us the worst touring squad ever and we smashed them. There are some similarities between that side and this one, the fast bowling quality, one high class batsmen (Clarke compared to AB). However that one had Steve Waugh explode, not to mention the likes of Boon and Taylor, solid 40-45 averages over long test careers. We need a couple of batsmen to step up if we're to have a chance this series.
 

Earl

Coach
Messages
16,804
Hard to disagree with anything you have said.

We need to prepare for this tour with only 1 thing in mind. Winning the ashes in England in 2013. No planning for the future, no planning for the 2015 world cup. None of that shit.

Pick the 15 - 18 players we need to win the Ashes THIS year.

Pick bowler who will bowl well in English conditions. Jackson Bird, James Pattinson etc

Pick batsmen who have scored runs in English conditions. Chris Rogers and David Hussey are the first 2 that come to mind. Perhaps even Adam Voges and George Bailey. We need players with a level head on the shoulders and who arn't going to be over awed by the whole thing.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,320
That being said this would be my touring party

Batsmen
Michael Clarke (c)
Ed Cowan
Dave Warner
Alex Doolan
Usman Khawaja
Chris Rogers/Burns (will almost certainly be Hughes)

I'd definitely give George Bailey a go.

Keepers
Matthew Wade
Chris Hartley

Wade shouldn't be anywhere near this team based on his keeping 'ability'.
I'd even rather have Haddin if he hasn't retired already.

Fast Bowlers
James Pattinson
Peter Siddle
Jackson Bird
Ryan Harris
Ben Hilfenhaus (no doubt Starc and MJ will figure though).

If Pat Cummins is fit he is a must and I'd be tempted to give Starc a go on some of those green tops. Not Johnson.

Spinners
Nathan Lyon
Steve O'Keefe

Nathan Lyon should never play for Australia again.

My XI:
Warner
Cowan
Khawaja
Clarke (c)
Bailey
Watson
Haddin
Pattinson
Siddle
O'Keefe
Cummins

What will happen:
Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Watson
Clarke (c)
Wade
Henriques
No Show
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon
 
Messages
4,448
I think this current innings will be telling on Cowan, if he gets out early today then he has to go. Sorry but he isn't contributing much and struggles to pass 30 runs. We need more from an opener, I'd have Watson/Hughes or Khawaja opening with Warner.

My 17 man squad would be (mind you I've changed it about 5 times since I made a similar thread)

Watson
Warner
Hughes/Doolan
Clarke
Khawaja
Henriques
Wade
O'Keefe
Pattinson
Siddle
Bird

Starc
Johnson
Lyon
Doolan/Hughes
Bailey or Burns
Hartley
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,342
100 wickets, Big show talented young unit dominator x factor will take 80, just need the rest of the bowlers to follow his lead
 

unbreaK

Juniors
Messages
1,014
My touring squad would be ~

Batsmen

Ed Cowan
David Warner
Michael Clarke (c)
Usman Khawaja
Philip Hughes
Alex Doolan

All-Rounders

Shane Watson
Moises Henriques

Keepers

Brad Haddin
Matthew Wade

Fast Bowlers

James Pattinson
Peter Siddle
Mitchell Starc
Jackson Bird
Pat Cummins

Spinners

Stephen O'Keefe
Nathan Lyon

~

First Test Lineup -

1) S.Watson (vc)
2) D.Warner
3) U.Khawaja
4) M.Clarke (c)
5) A.Doolan
6) M.Henriques
7) B.Haddin
8) P.Siddle
9) J.Pattinson
10) J.Bird
11) S.O'Keefe
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Hard to disagree with anything you have said.

We need to prepare for this tour with only 1 thing in mind. Winning the ashes in England in 2013. No planning for the future, no planning for the 2015 world cup. None of that shit.

Pick the 15 - 18 players we need to win the Ashes THIS year.

Pick bowler who will bowl well in English conditions. Jackson Bird, James Pattinson etc

Pick batsmen who have scored runs in English conditions. Chris Rogers and David Hussey are the first 2 that come to mind. Perhaps even Adam Voges and George Bailey. We need players with a level head on the shoulders and who arn't going to be over awed by the whole thing.
Dave Hussey has been awful in the longer forms this summer, he wont go. Unsure of voges performances overseas, Bailey is worth a shout though.
 
Messages
21,867
Every test match should be treated with reverence.

Down 2-0 the series isn't even over. As an Australian cricket fan I'd be disgusted if we pulled pattinson out of India.

Even down 3-0 the baggy green should be treated with the respect it deserves and the respect of 140 odd years of Australian test cricket.
 
Messages
21,867
My touring squad would be ~

Batsmen

Ed Cowan
David Warner
Michael Clarke (c)
Usman Khawaja
Philip Hughes
Alex Doolan

All-Rounders

Shane Watson
Moises Henriques

Keepers

Brad Haddin
Matthew Wade

Fast Bowlers

James Pattinson
Peter Siddle
Mitchell Starc
Jackson Bird
Pat Cummins

Spinners

Stephen O'Keefe
Nathan Lyon

~

First Test Lineup -

1) S.Watson (vc)
2) D.Warner
3) U.Khawaja
4) M.Clarke (c)
5) A.Doolan
6) M.Henriques
7) B.Haddin
8) P.Siddle
9) J.Pattinson
10) J.Bird
11) S.O'Keefe


A few points.

Henrqiques shouldn't be batting in front of Haddin.

Okeefe would bat at 8 , at the absolute lowest.

Cummins simply can't go , he's hardly played a match in two years.
 

Didgi

Moderator
Messages
17,260
Is there any limited on touring party size, bar that set by CA/selectors? I'd like to see-

Batsmen:
Ed Cowan - dependant upon performances in the rest of this series. I'm willing to give him far more leniency than many others, for two reasons. Firstly, gone are the days of Hayden and Langer creaming the opposition bowlers all over the park. For mine, a batsman who can hang around for long periods and take up the new ball, put a price on his wicket and get a handy 30-40 runs on average might have to be good enough - bringing us to the second point of who else is there to open? A month or so ago we were debating having four openers in the team, but nowadays it seems no one is in form.
David Warner - realistically our second best bat, and has the potential to do some damage to the Poms, because lets face it - we're probably not going to win without some sort of X-factor (and I'm not talking about f**king Xavier)
Usman Khawaja - we've tried Hughes, we've tried Hughes again, and now he's getting a third chance. I'd be willing to advocate persisting with him despite his poor showings this series, but he's shown in the process that he is still severely limited. Khawaja is not without his faults but deserves a good go at cementing a spot.
Michael Clarke (c) - he needs to be moved up the order to 4, no doubt about it.
Shane Watson - he's not my pick, but he's going to be there, particularly if there's any chance of him bowling. It has to come with a move further down the order though, and five is much better for him. It should come with a directive too - craft partnerships, and if you use another review you're on the first flight home.
Moses Henriques - after his efforts in the first test, he deserves to have a spot - for now. It was two good innings, but we could see him slip back into old form at any point. Has to show he's worthy over a period of time.
Matthew Wade - again, it's not ideal but he's going to be there, if only for his ability to score a few more runs. Ideally Hartley gets a shot at some point.
Steve O'Keefe - if the selectors can ever admit that they got it wrong, this bloke should be one of the first picked for the Ashes. Has the ability to turn the ball and games, and after the procession of shit we've seen from spinners over the past couple of years he deserves a crack at least.
James Pattinson - the real danger man. If he can stay fit he should be leading the attack all series, no doubt about that. I tend to agree that we shouldn't even risk him breaking down in the rest of this series.
Peter Siddle - the workhorse, top bowler who will always put everything in. Automatic selection really.
Jackson Bird - if fit, again the potential to carry a bit of x-factor with him.

Reserves:

Alex Doolan - he's earned a shot at a baggy green. Do we have any tour matches beforehand? Could be a smokey for a spot ahead of Khawaja/Watson/Cowan.
Phil Hughes - he's going to be on the tour, hopefully he can do well against less spin-oriented attacks.
George Bailey - his performances in the shorter forms should earn him a shot as well.
Chris Hartley - offers a more reliable option behind the stumps, and can be a handy contributor with the bat as well.
Glenn Maxwell - dependant on performances in the rest of this series, he's probably going to be there - those four wickets will have secured his position for a while.
Ryan Harris - a top quality bowler when fit, might be worth having him along to rotate with Bird or Siddle.
Ben Hilfenhaus - should get a chance, if he can tie up one end it might prove invaluable.

Another name I'd like to throw up: Doug Bollinger. Was considered one of the best bowlers in the world a while back, and has been taking wickets at shield level too.

Edit: Forgot Starc. He probably takes Hilfenhaus' spot, and can rotate with Bird if need be.
 
Last edited:
Messages
21,867
I'd definitely give George Bailey a go.

Agreed. What he lacks in ability he makes up for in cricket smarts. And with our lack of batting depth he should go.



Wade shouldn't be anywhere near this team based on his keeping 'ability'.
I'd even rather have Haddin if he hasn't retired already.

Haddin is available.


If Pat Cummins is fit he is a must and I'd be tempted to give Starc a go on some of those green tops. Not Johnson.

How is cummins a must? Dudes played all of 5 FC matches & 1 test. And he hasn't played in two years. He's the poster child for overhyped.

And tempted to play starc ? He and pattinson should be the first picked. Starc is made for English conditions.

Agreed on Johnson.



Nathan Lyon should never play for Australia again.

Rubbish , he's been a decent spinner. We only have two , him and okeefe.

My XI:
Warner
Cowan
Khawaja
Clarke (c)
Bailey
Watson
Haddin
Pattinson
Siddle
O'Keefe
Cummins

Okeefe is an 8. Not a 10.

Cummins can't go straight into the team with virtually no matches.

Unless Watson is bowling you need henriques in the team most likely.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Every test match should be treated with reverence.

Down 2-0 the series isn't even over. As an Australian cricket fan I'd be disgusted if we pulled pattinson out of India.

Even down 3-0 the baggy green should be treated with the respect it deserves and the respect of 140 odd years of Australian test cricket.
I generally agree, but i'd be spewing if Pattinson got injured.

The point is Pattinson needs to be primed for the Ashes series, because him bowling at full tilt gives us a good chance of competing.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Haddin, at 35, is exactly what people are criticizing Matthew Wade for. Rash shots when batting and poor keeping. We moved past him for a reason. The best thing Haddin could do for Aust cricket at present is give up the gloves, bat at 4 and captain the Blues for a season or two, allowing Nevill a shot whilst providing a yard stick for any good young batsmen we have coming through (although we seem a bit bare at present).
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,320
Okeefe is an 8. Not a 10.
Cummins can't go straight into the team with virtually no matches.
Unless Watson is bowling you need henriques in the team most likely.

Didn't know enough about O'Keefe to know where he should bat. I just don't see Lyon ever running through a line-up which is why I'm vouching for someone, anyone else. Of course Lyon is the #2 choice though.

I haven't seen much of Cummins but he looked like a capable strike bowler. You're probably right though in that he hasn't had enough games under his belt.

Someone remind me why Watson isn't bowling again? When push come to shove they'll probably stick Maxwell instead of Henriques in there.
 
Messages
21,867
My team XI


Warner
Watson ( reluctantly)
Hughes
Clarke ( must move up the order. MUST)
Bailey
Haddin
Henriques
Okeefe
Starc
Siddle
Pattinson


Khawaja
Doolan
Wade
Bird
Lyon
?????? Last spot TBD , pace bowler.
 
Messages
21,867
I generally agree, but i'd be spewing if Pattinson got injured.

The point is Pattinson needs to be primed for the Ashes series, because him bowling at full tilt gives us a good chance of competing.

I'd be spewing too.

But it's a test match for a reason. You can't wrap him in cotton wool.
 
Messages
21,867
Didn't know enough about O'Keefe to know where he should bat. I just don't see Lyon ever running through a line-up which is why I'm vouching for someone, anyone else. Of course Lyon is the #2 choice though.

I haven't seen much of Cummins but he looked like a capable strike bowler. You're probably right though in that he hasn't had enough games under his belt.

Someone remind me why Watson isn't bowling again? When push come to shove they'll probably stick Maxwell instead of Henriques in there.

Truth is we don't have any spinners that can run through a line-up. Okeefe is a better option , but in truth even he isn't going to take a bag full.
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,272
Should we even play a spinner in England?

Other than The Oval, and occasionally Old Trafford, wickets don't tend to break up.

Unless you have a good spinner who can use the conditions you're better off with an all-out pace attack.
 
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