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Backline 2019

rednwhites

Juniors
Messages
1,303
This very time last year we were angry after that other very famous loss to the Bulldogs. Here we are again angry and bitter because of the coach and performance of his team.

At least then, however, we were hopeful that we had secured one of the game's best number 7's albeit for the cost of an arm and a leg. I have to laugh now given Hunt has barely done a thing since Origin and he is having a case of the duldrums because he got benched. We had just secured some grit and experience upfront with Graham and most were confident this would go some way to fill the void left by Packer.

Skip to today. We've lost Ah Mau and have got another Sims. There's some speculation about losing Nene but apart from that we have been very inactive in the market place when it is plain for all to see that our backline isn't cutting it in first grade. When things are not going as hoped, it can be easy to be negative about everything and I have been, but this is just one of those things I find scary, and very inexcusable. I can only hope the lack of activity is because their is a succession plan for the next coach picking his squad but that is wishful thinking.

Relying on some young untested players is not going to cut it in my book and this has been a year when:

- Aitken has gone backwards and has become a liability, the biggest disappointment of the year in my book
- Pereira has done his best to plug a hole, he may yet go to next level but he is his peak year chronologically
- Lafai has been consistent but is like Beale when he was here, very forgettable and average, never really delivering in attack
- Dufty has used his speed well and agility well at times, but has gotten worse as the year progressed, and time will tell if he is actually first grade material or a glorified Quinlan
- MacDonald has the size and finishing skills I want to see in our backline, has annoyed some with complacency, may not even be around next year (I get the feeling he's gone)

When our forwards aren't dominating these wing thee-quarters are the worst group in the entire comp. We will miss Jason's experience at the back which isn't going to make things easier.

Hunt and Widdop have fallen off the face of the earth but success is around the corner with these two, especially with a new coach. You've got Lomax and Herbert which most of us know little about thanks to Mary. As good as they may be, like JP, we can't just assume they will be the next big thing. Mann is worth holding on to and has shown his versatility is an asset to our team.

All in all we are down two class outside backs (that other teams appear to have) and the fact we haven't done anything to secure one is just another reason to look upon the future with more misery. No word on us signing Tupou or Barba...Ferguson is off to Parra. What are we actually doing?

I realise this is a very surface layer look at recruitment but some things are not very complicated. We don't have the team that will do much going forward. Here's hoping a new coach comes in and changes all this.
 

Saint_JimmyG

First Grade
Messages
5,067
New coach? Good one. McGregor will get an extension.

Millward’s doing (and has already done) a fantastic job with recruitment/retention, don’t ya know? Cool your jets....keep calm.

Sigh :pensive:
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
9,001
There is a whole offseason to sort all that out? Who says we’re not addressing these things? Just because it’s not in the press doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

Agree with pretty much all of your assessments.

It could be as simple as getting one speedy winger, Mosby is who I’d be targeting. Replace Lafai and Aitken with Mann and Lomax and that transforms our backline.

A good coach could do wonders with that backline, especially with Hunt and Widdop running the ship.
 

Wittenberg

Juniors
Messages
1,140
Agree with a lot of your statements rednwhites. Our backline is a strange creature indeed. Aitken has been a major disappointment for two years now. He has strength, can tackle aggressively front on and can, on occasions run good lines, but he has gone backwards and he is another one playing with no confidence. For weeks now he looks nervous in defence and either rushes up or stays back and waits too long to commit. He never has been a particularly fast or elusive centre but he used to make up for that with strength and a refusal to easily submit in tackles. There appears to be little potency in his running over the last two months and he seldom passes the ball, making him predictable and less likely to put fear into outside defenders. In many ways he is a tuck the ball under his arm, head down and barge type of centre.......not exactly what is needed. Lafai has been consistent and teams invariably attack our right side (who wouldn't?), so his defence certainly has not been exposed as much. He does get involved more than he did in the past and he can off load. With the team being down over recent weeks his game has started to creep back into the forced pass, impossible ball realm. Nene has scored some brilliant tries but Saturday's game summed him up perfectly......creates tries for both sides. JP has done excellently but long term the jury is out. Widdop and Hunt? Class but under enormous pressure. A lot of people hang off every word Bennett says and he said long ago that Saints players and coach are under more pressure and scrutiny than any other club in the NRL. I was pleased Hunt really put in on Saturday. He will prove worth it. Widdop is class provided he doesn't always run across field. Mann showed the worth of someone running the ball occasionally at 5/8. Gee we have stuffed Mann. He should be one of our centres next year with Lomax probably looking at wing. Dufty? He is a tough one. A few games we wouldn't have won without him, but Brisbane will terrorise him with the high ball all day. It is his first season and he will mature, but like Aitken, and to be fair, the whole team, he is going backwards.
 

rednwhites

Juniors
Messages
1,303
Agree with a lot of your statements rednwhites. Our backline is a strange creature indeed. Aitken has been a major disappointment for two years now. He has strength, can tackle aggressively front on and can, on occasions run good lines, but he has gone backwards and he is another one playing with no confidence. For weeks now he looks nervous in defence and either rushes up or stays back and waits too long to commit. He never has been a particularly fast or elusive centre but he used to make up for that with strength and a refusal to easily submit in tackles. There appears to be little potency in his running over the last two months and he seldom passes the ball, making him predictable and less likely to put fear into outside defenders. In many ways he is a tuck the ball under his arm, head down and barge type of centre.......not exactly what is needed. Lafai has been consistent and teams invariably attack our right side (who wouldn't?), so his defence certainly has not been exposed as much. He does get involved more than he did in the past and he can off load. With the team being down over recent weeks his game has started to creep back into the forced pass, impossible ball realm. Nene has scored some brilliant tries but Saturday's game summed him up perfectly......creates tries for both sides. JP has done excellently but long term the jury is out. Widdop and Hunt? Class but under enormous pressure. A lot of people hang off every word Bennett says and he said long ago that Saints players and coach are under more pressure and scrutiny than any other club in the NRL. I was pleased Hunt really put in on Saturday. He will prove worth it. Widdop is class provided he doesn't always run across field. Mann showed the worth of someone running the ball occasionally at 5/8. Gee we have stuffed Mann. He should be one of our centres next year with Lomax probably looking at wing. Dufty? He is a tough one. A few games we wouldn't have won without him, but Brisbane will terrorise him with the high ball all day. It is his first season and he will mature, but like Aitken, and to be fair, the whole team, he is going backwards.

Agree 100% on your summation.

Would love to know what is happening with recruitment. Maybe something will be announced when we bow out on Sunday.
 

latemail

Juniors
Messages
440
I can believe all you people who say lafai has been consistent
He’s consistently f**ked
He has no speed and jogs to the line where he stops and try’s to throw a miracle ball
Wouldn’t make it in any other NRL team yet he’s our gun centre
Teams must laugh and shiver in there boots when they come up against lafai and the other imposter aitken
 

gitano

Juniors
Messages
2,364
I can believe all you people who say lafai has been consistent
He’s consistently f**ked
He has no speed and jogs to the line where he stops and try’s to throw a miracle ball
Wouldn’t make it in any other NRL team yet he’s our gun centre
Teams must laugh and shiver in there boots when they come up against lafai and the other imposter aitken
Don't let a lack of idea stop you, go hard
 
Messages
2,866
Agree 100% on your summation.

Would love to know what is happening with recruitment. Maybe something will be announced when we bow out on Sunday.
The elephant in the room is the quality of our recruits.
When you look at the most dangerous and damaging backline payers in the comp, none of them play for us.
One of the main reasons for not being able to recruit top liners is our coach.
Especially now that he has been totally exposed as unqualified.
Which top liner will come and play for McGregor? NO ONE, that's who.
Milward gambled on Aitkin, Lafai and Dufty on long term contracts and I believe both centres are duds.
Aitkin hasn't worked out at all and you can hardly say that Lafai strikes fear into opposition defences.
Nene is a centre not a winger and even though he has scored some spectacular aerial tries playing outside of Lafai he has only scored 10 tries.
Nightingale last year scored 16 in the same position and was lambasted as too slow and on his last legs.
In my opinion, both wing spots are up for grabs.
All that could change if someone like Bennet takes over as coach.
Then the recruitment dynamic changes dramatically.
It also means that the young guns will be given every opportunity to make the transition to FG under the watchful eye of quality mentors.
The best players follow the best coaches - fact.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,470
I think Periera has sewn up a wing spot next season, he has been great. Mann should be locked in as a guarantee in the centres or fullback. Herbert and Lomax new boys for the backline. Aitken / Lafai play reserves and wait for an injury. Good depth cover. Dufty needs to bulk up and learn to catch the ball.

I would even consider Widdop at F/B and Field in the halves.

With a smart coach he will know exactly where to play these guys. Someone like Maguire or Demitriou will have this backline working so good it aint funny and the attack would be up there as one of the best. Saints have the players unfortunately not used correctly. I even think Barrett will get them clicking better than Mary. I also think Baz can get the Trbjovic brothers accross to the Dragons. Payback for the Stewart bros going the other way.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,591
I can believe all you people who say lafai has been consistent
He’s consistently f**ked
He has no speed and jogs to the line where he stops and try’s to throw a miracle ball
Wouldn’t make it in any other NRL team yet he’s our gun centre
Teams must laugh and shiver in there boots when they come up against lafai and the other imposter aitken
I don't believe Nightingale, Aitken or Lafai should have be extended. Herbert and Ah Mau should have been kept however, you can't keep em all.

Millward needs to hold off hiring anyone now because there will be a new chief in town. CEO Johnstone is most likely to hire a new top line coach. I'm sure if it is Bennett, Hasler or Maquire, Millward report to the new coach.
 

Vinnie

Juniors
Messages
236
I don't believe Nightingale, Aitken or Lafai should have be extended. Herbert and Ah Mau should have been kept however, you can't keep em all.

Millward needs to hold off hiring anyone now because there will be a new chief in town. CEO Johnstone is most likely to hire a new top line coach. I'm sure if it is Bennett, Hasler or Maquire, Millward report to the new coach.
I don't actually believe Herbert has officially gone yet ???
 

2010

Bench
Messages
3,490
I am hoping that Millward has been active in recruitment and we see waiting till the season is done and dusted.
Lomax needs to have a first grade spot next year, if we retain the same center pairing next season then we have not learned anything.
Sims will be a good fit, watching him he will be a good player for us next season. Blake L can't be to far off next year.
We probably would need one more prop but we do need some backs
 

The calm one

Juniors
Messages
945
The elephant in the room is the quality of our recruits.
When you look at the most dangerous and damaging backline payers in the comp, none of them play for us.
One of the main reasons for not being able to recruit top liners is our coach.
Especially now that he has been totally exposed as unqualified.
Which top liner will come and play for McGregor? NO ONE, that's who.
Milward gambled on Aitkin, Lafai and Dufty on long term contracts and I believe both centres are duds.
Aitkin hasn't worked out at all and you can hardly say that Lafai strikes fear into opposition defences.
Nene is a centre not a winger and even though he has scored some spectacular aerial tries playing outside of Lafai he has only scored 10 tries.
Nightingale last year scored 16 in the same position and was lambasted as too slow and on his last legs.
In my opinion, both wing spots are up for grabs.
All that could change if someone like Bennet takes over as coach.
Then the recruitment dynamic changes dramatically.
It also means that the young guns will be given every opportunity to make the transition to FG under the watchful eye of quality mentors.
The best players follow the best coaches - fact.
Players will I’ll play for any coach especially if his name is, Top Dollar. They couldn’t give a stuff who the coach is as long as the pay packet is there
 

aquiin

Juniors
Messages
194
I’d like to see Aitken play at left centre in the trials, if Lomax is ready to go on the right, but it would only be a short-term option. Aitken’s likely spot is off the bench.

2020 I’d expect they’d be budgeting for Marsters left centre. I don’t see us heading anywhere but towards a young back five with Sailor and Saab around as well.
 

SaintPauli

Juniors
Messages
1,179
I think Periera has sewn up a wing spot next season, he has been great. Mann should be locked in as a guarantee in the centres or fullback. Herbert and Lomax new boys for the backline. Aitken / Lafai play reserves and wait for an injury. Good depth cover. Dufty needs to bulk up and learn to catch the ball.

I would even consider Widdop at F/B and Field in the halves.

With a smart coach he will know exactly where to play these guys. Someone like Maguire or Demitriou will have this backline working so good it aint funny and the attack would be up there as one of the best. Saints have the players unfortunately not used correctly. I even think Barrett will get them clicking better than Mary. I also think Baz can get the Trbjovic brothers accross to the Dragons. Payback for the Stewart bros going the other way.
Mann for Aitkin as centre on current form over past 8 weeks. Mann can defend and is pretty quick too nullifying short in goal kicks
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,224
When you look at the top players in the backline they are all starting to have similar builds and physical attributes. Tall, fast (not necessarily fastest), size (natural not overly muscled up), strong.

I now think that juniors who have these attributes (athletes) rather than pure footballers are what should be targeted. It doesn't matter if only a small percentage of the recruitment ends up being successful, its a production line thats needed. Feed the raw resources in at one end and hope the right product comes out at the other.

Keep identifying body shape in the juniors and recruit based on this not on the "best" junior players, if they fail discard them and add the next recruit. I think this can also be applied to the forwards, the players where you want footballers are hooker, half and 5/8. The fullback is the one where you need to target a "player" with size, speed and physicality (this is probably the hardest combination to find).
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
8,225
I don't believe Nightingale, Aitken or Lafai should have be extended. Herbert and Ah Mau should have been kept however, you can't keep em all.

Millward needs to hold off hiring anyone now because there will be a new chief in town. CEO Johnstone is most likely to hire a new top line coach. I'm sure if it is Bennett, Hasler or Maquire, Millward report to the new coach.
I been thinking that this could be the scenario and how it effects recruitment , at least I am hoping it is ! The new owners may not be enameled with the present coach even though he is a Illawarra boy. Results first !
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
8,225
Players will I’ll play for any coach especially if his name is, Top Dollar. They couldn’t give a stuff who the coach is as long as the pay packet is there

Yes , BUT what if their form is so bad due to the coach having no idea , how much is their next contract reduced ? Consider Dufty's situation.His manager has gone very quiet about an upgrade.
 

Corner_Post

Juniors
Messages
1,944
... how many players have improved since McDrunk started?

It doesn’t seem like individuals or the team as a whole know how to improve ala our season constantly going downhill from the start.
 
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