Big 3 no more?

[Clarkent]

Matt Parish has come out and said with the new eligibility law the big 3 has become the big 7... Tonga Samoa fiji and PNG.... Is he right? I mean he does have a point... When the samoans were in the four nation they pushed the kiwis all the way to the end and gave England a few troubles and when they faced the kangaroos it was the closest margin a second tier nation ever got to them.... Scotland drew with the kiwis last year... And these teams will be heavily stacked come world cup time...

 

[Burns]

Look, probably not.

Of the nations listed, the most immediate short term chance of success is Samoa and Fiji. I don't really rate Tonga, their history of results is proof enough.

The game would benefit from France & Wales being part of the 'Big 3' because they = $$$.

All that said, at the World Cup, I would expect Samoa or Fiji to make the quarter finals with England, NZ and Aus.

 

[Clarkent]

Look, probably not.

Of the nations listed, the most immediate short term chance of success is Samoa and Fiji. I don't really rate Tonga, their history of results is proof enough.

The game would benefit from France & Wales being part of the 'Big 3' because they = $$$.

All that said, at the World Cup, I would expect Samoa or Fiji to make the quarter finals with England, NZ and Aus.

Unfortunately France and Wales dominating is a long way off... They just don't have the talent like the island teams... Spot on about Tonga... Especially with the last world cup when they had a heavily stacked team... Samoans and fiji will be the teams to watch and Scotland too...

 

[Pommy]

If this is true and the island teams can genuinely compete then the elitabilty rules need looking at either with England becoming a tier 2 nation or the others becoming tier 1 nations and then quickly reverting to tier 2 once the talent stops running out for them.
The eligabilty rules in RL are a joke.

 

[roughyedspud]

The teams outside the big 3 don't have the halves to beat the big three

 

[adamkungl]

If this is true and the island teams can genuinely compete then the elitabilty rules need looking at either with England becoming a tier 2 nation or the others becoming tier 1 nations and then quickly reverting to tier 2 once the talent stops running out for them.
The eligabilty rules in RL are a joke.

Having tiered eligibility is not good. I think it's a far more toxic concept than multi-eligibility.
I've kind of come round to 2-nation eligiblity. It has endless critics, but I think it suits Rugby League's current competition make up and should provide us with a higher quality international scene.

But. The tiered concept is nasty.

I think players should nominate up to 2 nations if they wish, never to be changed. No rules about tier 1s or tier 2s. Every country treated equally.
If the countries with professional competitions have any self respect (ha) they'll hold themselves to a higher standard and only pick players they've developed through juniors (haha)

The teams outside the big 3 don't have the halves to beat the big three

Or the depth. To have any hope of even competing they have to field their absolute best side every time.

PNG and France are the only ones with the current potential to consistently challenge, and they're a look way off due to various reasons. I just don't see the islands keeping up consistently.

 

[latingringo101]

The thing at the moment is players can swap at the drop of a hat and nations will rise and fall all the time in a short amount of time. One team which takes the field one year would be different in 12 months depending on the quality of players avaliable to play for them.

I've said this numerous times before that in order to have stable and fair International teams, a one nation for life rule needs to come into play to stop nation swapping and there is more legitimacy with international teams.

 

[Pommy]

Having tiered eligibility is not good. I think it's a far more toxic concept than multi-eligibility.
I've kind of come round to 2-nation eligiblity. It has endless critics, but I think it suits Rugby League's current competition make up and should provide us with a higher quality international scene.

But. The tiered concept is nasty.

I think players should nominate up to 2 nations if they wish, never to be changed. No rules about tier 1s or tier 2s. Every country treated equally.
If the countries with professional competitions have any self respect (ha) they'll hold themselves to a higher standard and only pick players they've developed through juniors (haha)

I would love to see rugby league have the same system as football. You can play for a heritage nation but you pick one team and that's it for life, with very minor exceptions.
But I understand league isn't in that position yet sadly.
The current system in my eyes is dealing the cards massively in the favour of Australia and NZ at a great cost to England.
They get all the benefits of islanders being able to come in and out of the squad whilst denying England the chance to take players of Anglo heritage if they ever wish to or ever have played for the Kangaroos.
Now the last thing I want to see is a load of ozzies running out in red and white but in the wake of the Semi farce why should the rules not allow it?

 

[adamkungl]

I would love to see rugby league have the same system as football. You can play for a heritage nation but you pick one team and that's it for life, with very minor exceptions.
But I understand league isn't in that position yet sadly.
The current system in my eyes is dealing the cards massively in the favour of Australia and NZ at a great cost to England.
They get all the benefits of islanders being able to come in and out of the squad whilst denying England the chance to take players of Anglo heritage if they ever wish to or ever have played for the Kangaroos.
Now the last thing I want to see is a load of ozzies running out in red and white but in the wake of the Semi face why should the rules not allow it?

Completely disagree. England has a professional competition (with no shortage of Islanders itself) and should be able to pick a team without picking up Aussies. I don't buy the idea that England should be considered tier 2.

The 2 nation rule swings things in the Islands favour anyway. Most of their players were born in Australia or NZ, and only play for their heritage nation because they know it doesn't rule them out of the big pay day with Aus or NZ.
Australia is going to pick these players regardless and rightfully so - Jarryd Hayne came through Australia's junior league not Fiji's. "Semi incidents" are fairly few and far between for the most part, frustrating though they are.

A one nation for life rule would damage the game more than improve it, the Pacific islands and Wales, Scotland, Ireland would lose a lot of young talent with eyes on a bigger prize. For the sake of 'credibility'.
It would pull the 'tier 2' nations back closer to the likes of Serbia and Russia but the gap between them and the big 3 would be wider than ever.

There's not much appetite in the game for it except for a subset of international purist fans and (understandably) the nations currently below WC level.

 

[Pommy]

Completely disagree. England has a professional competition (with no shortage of Islanders itself) and should be able to pick a team without picking up Aussies. I don't buy the idea that England should be considered tier 2.

The 2 nation rule swings things in the Islands favour anyway. Most of their players were born in Australia or NZ, and only play for their heritage nation because they know it doesn't rule them out of the big pay day with Aus or NZ.
Australia is going to pick these players regardless and rightfully so - Jarryd Hayne came through Australia's junior league not Fiji's. "Semi incidents" are fairly few and far between for the most part, frustrating though they are.

A one nation for life rule would damage the game more than improve it, the Pacific islands and Wales, Scotland, Ireland would lose a lot of young talent with eyes on a bigger prize. For the sake of 'credibility'.
It would pull the 'tier 2' nations back closer to the likes of Serbia and Russia but the gap between them and the big 3 would be wider than ever.

There's not much appetite in the game for it except for a subset of international purist fans and (understandably) the nations currently below WC level.

Im not suggesting England should be a tier 2 nation. Im suggesting to just get rid of the tiers. If an Australian can play for Fiji because of parents then an Australian should be able to play for England because of parents. I still don't want Australians playing for England but I just don't like the fact its essentially banned in the rules.
I know a one nation rule isn't going to work now maybe one day but I think I will probably be long dead before theres really a chance of it working.
Semi is the elephant in the room, if the country with the best talent and most depth is going to 'abuse' the system in that fashion then the rules need to be put on a level playing field. I have no problem with people who moved as children repping for Australia, England, NZ but people who move as a professional athlete like semi should never be able to rep for their new nations.
Yes I know England had Rangi Chase, but Rangi Chase isn't even close to Semi and England aren't Australia not that it should have happened either.

 

[adamkungl]

Im not suggesting England should be a tier 2 nation. Im suggesting to just get rid of the tiers. If an Australian can play of Fiji because of parents then an Australian should be able to play for England because of parents. I still don't want Australians playing for England but I just don't like the fact its essentially banned in the rules.
I know a one nation rule isn't going to work now maybe one day but I think I will probably be long dead before theres really a chance of it working.
Semi is the elephant in the room, if the country with the best talent and most depth is going to 'abuse' the system in that fashion then the rules need to be put on a level playing field. I have no problem with people who moved as children repping for Australia, England, NZ but people who move as a professional athlete like semi should never be able to rep for their new nations.
Yes I know England had Rangi Chase, but Rangi Chase isn't even close to Semi and England aren't Australia not that it should have happened either.

Agree with all of that. Said much the same earlier

I think players should nominate up to 2 nations if they wish, never to be changed. No rules about tier 1s or tier 2s. Every country treated equally.
If the countries with professional competitions have any self respect (ha) they'll hold themselves to a higher standard and only pick players they've developed through juniors (haha)

 

[Clarkent]

The teams outside the big 3 don't have the halves to beat the big three

Samoa`s got the halves to upset England or kiwis definitely not the Aussies.... They'll probably have milford and Nu Brown and might even be Thomas Leuluai... Fiji will probably have hayne koroisau or even Sutton from Souths... So that's enough to compete with big 2...

 

[Clarkent]

Or the depth. To have any hope of even competing they have to field their absolute best side every time.

PNG and France are the only ones with the current potential to consistently challenge, and they're a look way off due to various reasons. I just don't see the islands keeping up consistently.[/QUOTE]



Disagree... The islands teams depth has grown a lot through the years especially in the NRL... And they'll just keep growing every year... Agree on the consistency part tho... Because the islanders will lose players maybe the next year to the big teams if they're on form and too good to turn down...

 

[Clarkent]

Why can't England heritage players be accepted playing for England? I mean if it was there great grandparents then I would understand but if the dad or mum were English I would see no problem for them playing for there parents team

 

[adamkungl]

Why can't England heritage players be accepted playing for England? I mean if it was there great grandparents then I would understand but if the dad or mum were English I would see no problem for them playing for there parents team

You don't see a problem with a country having it's own professional league, hundreds of eligible professional players, picking an Australian born and bred because he has an English grandmother (ie. most Australians).

It's one thing for Canada to do it who relatively just started playing the sport, but for England it's disgraceful.
As is Australia picking islanders who moved here just to play pro footy.

 

[PaulyTom]

I think it's a big 5 now.

Australia
NZ
England
Samoa
Fiji

Then a small gap then to -
Tonga
PNG
Scotland
France

 

[PaulyTom]

Not a big fan the Scottish and Irish teams being filled by grandparent rule type players . Down the track ruling needs to be adjusted to just parent ruling .

 

[Pommy]

You don't see a problem with a country having it's own professional league, hundreds of eligible professional players, picking an Australian born and bred because he has an English grandmother (ie. most Australians).

It's one thing for Canada to do it who relatively just started playing the sport, but for England it's disgraceful.
As is Australia picking islanders who moved here just to play pro footy.

I don't disagree on it being disgraceful but Australia are doing it and the rules are in such a way it makes it hard for England to exploit them.
If Australia are going to abuse the system which they have in the past year why shouldn't England be able to?
Even though I would very much prefer neither side did. My worry is the gap between England and Australia NZ is going to get wider.

 

[jim_57]

Not a big fan the Scottish and Irish teams being filled by grandparent rule type players . Down the track ruling needs to be adjusted to just parent ruling .

What about Tonga, Samoa, Italy?

At least Ireland have a self imposed domestic quota.

 

[PaulyTom]

Italy are the worst of all when it comes to grandparent rule.

Least with Tongans , Samoans and Fijian Australians they still class them selves as from those country.

My parents are English but I never consider myself as being English.