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Bottom Line...

JJ

Immortal
Messages
33,278
JK said:
dice said:
Yes, Bengal. I was also referring to Noad's "total vindication" comments in my post. Arrogant prick he is. I wonder if he would still feel the same if it was his daughter.

I am glad that the legal system is divorced from knee-jerk reactionaries who cannot seperate the case at hand from their own family :roll:

What if your son was accused? Would you believe them with an inconclusive verdict? A stupid example but maybe one that is needed for you?

The facts are all that matters to the DPP.

You're an absolute F@#kwit... answer this stupid, what if your daughter was the complainant??
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
33,278
Not at all - he said "what if your son was accused"? I was just pointing out that there are two sides to this, and I think both deserve some consideration. The players and Bulldogs management are constantly in the media whinging, or cheering about vindication etc - and quite frankly its insulting - their arrogance and petulance is beyond belief, and perhaps at the source of the problems.

The bottom line is - to be blunt - if the woman in question genuinely believes ( I am NOT saying that she does) that she was raped, then she was - end of story. It doesn't matter what the players think, or what anyone watching thinks. Appearances can be deceiving - and the emotional and physical damage done by that and the attitudes of players/management are incalculable, and the players problems are miniscule by comparison. But, a rape is difficult to prove in the many situations in which it is more murking - i.e., when it does not include a violent assault or abduction.

For the record, I am neither a woman, nor a feminist. I don't know what took place, and never will. But, this is a lot more complex, and more important than footy, or the opinions of boofhead Bulldogs players, management and supporters. I'll say it again, it's the attitude displayed publicly that offends me - and it does with many sports people in many codes. Another bottom line is that they are mostly intellectually stunted, physically impressive males that are overpaid, underworked, and very immature.

End of rave!
 

Shifty

Juniors
Messages
842
What if your daughter was attacked at school and accused of her father being a rapist because someone wrongly decided to release details of a police report? What of her attackers if her father was later cleared?

The media are there to report facts, a police investigation report contains information which is yet to be verified, they may express an opinion but they have an obligation to the accuser and the accused to do it responsibly.

No excuses for some player behaviour and punishment is warranted, too many what ifs for Bulldogs management to say nothing illegal occurred, too many what ifs for the story to have been released in the manner it was, too many what ifs for Gallop to have drawn conclusions and make statements that he has.
 

Shifty

Juniors
Messages
842
The Bulldogs have some players who have behaved inappropriately and have broken the clubs code of conduct, bringing the game into disrepute.

There is no justification and no way for anyone here to say that Bulldogs players obviously did anything illegal or immoral against the girl. Not without being guilty of an immoral act themselves.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
33,278
Agreed - I didn't suggest that, but I did point out that two people who are initmately involved in a situation can genuinely disagree on whether a rape occurred - it's actually not often the stereotypical violent, stranger rape that most perceive. So if the woman feels raped (again I am not saying that this is what the woman believes, or what happened) then she WAS.

I am also saying that this is a difficult thing to prove in a court of law, but doesn't mean that something didn't happen, and that damage (physical and psychological) wasn't done.

Again - the case is dead as far as the police are concerned - BUT there may well be victims, there may well have been damage done. For Dogs players and execs to be demanding apologies, and claiming vindication is offensive. They should just shut up, and get on with what they are apparently good at - playing league. It seems to me that this won't go away in a hurry, but to make petulant, arrrogant and offensive statements is making the process more difficult. A better strategy might be to stop making comments, and get on with their jobs
 

Shifty

Juniors
Messages
842
So if the woman feels raped (again I am not saying that this is what the woman believes, or what happened) then she WAS.
False, that alone does not constitute rape.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
33,278
In a legal sense it does not - but I have little time or respect for lawyers... If the other party does not consent (and not consenting might not be as clear as many people imagine) then it's rape...

I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't raped here - but if someone feels that they were, then from an emotional/psychological perspective it doesn't really matter what the law says
 

dice

Juniors
Messages
1,719
JK said:
dice said:
Yes, Bengal. I was also referring to Noad's "total vindication" comments in my post. Arrogant prick he is. I wonder if he would still feel the same if it was his daughter.

I am glad that the legal system is divorced from knee-jerk reactionaries who cannot seperate the case at hand from their own family :roll:

What if your son was accused? Would you believe them with an inconclusive verdict? A stupid example but maybe one that is needed for you?

The facts are all that matters to the DPP.


You missed the point. Noad's comments only just fell short of blatantly calling the girl a liar. The ramifications of this is other girls who have been raped will be too afraid to come forward to police for fear of being portrayed as a liar. To his credit, Noad has realised his comments were irresponsible and has publicly apologised.

Being in the media spotlight this case has far wider ramifications than the life of a girl and six bulldogs players. Some of you bulldogs supporters should realise this and stop making the same mistake that Noad made with his "total vindication" comments.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
33,278
dice said:
You missed the point. Noad's comments only just fell short of blatantly calling the girl a liar. The ramifications of this is other girls who have been raped will be too afraid to come forward to police for fear of being portrayed as a liar. To his credit, Noad has realised his comments were irresponsible and has publicly apologised.

Being in the media spotlight this case has far wider ramifications than the life of a girl and six bulldogs players. Some of you bulldogs supporters should realise this and stop making the same mistake that Noad made with his "total vindication" comments.


:clap: :clap:
 

Shifty

Juniors
Messages
842
I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't raped here - but if someone feels that they were, then from an emotional/psychological perspective it doesn't really matter what the law says
There is an element of truth in this, but feelings are based on perception.
 

Shifty

Juniors
Messages
842
You missed the point. Noad's comments only just fell short of blatantly calling the girl a liar. The ramifications of this is other girls who have been raped will be too afraid to come forward to police for fear of being portrayed as a liar. To his credit, Noad has realised his comments were irresponsible and has publicly apologised.

Being in the media spotlight this case has far wider ramifications than the life of a girl and six bulldogs players. Some of you bulldogs supporters should realise this and stop making the same mistake that Noad made with his "total vindication" comments.

I agree, some of Noad's comments weren't very well worded, but neither are some of those of the police, Gallop or those attacking the club here.

Gallop using speculation and unproven allegations in his punishment of the club do not fall short of the mark, they blatantly overstep the line and he may pay severly if some prove false.
 

dice

Juniors
Messages
1,719
Shifty said:
I agree, some of Noad's comments weren't very well worded, but neither are some of those of the police, Gallop or those attacking the club here.

Gallop using speculation and unproven allegations in his punishment of the club do not fall short of the mark, they blatantly overstep the line and he may pay severly if some prove false.

I agree, the comments are both ways but the ramifications are nowhere near the same.
 

Shifty

Juniors
Messages
842
Noad was merely trying to defend his players, unfortunately he may have impacted on the accuser.

Noad was reacting to Bretton's evidence of rape comments I believe, that comment should never have been made in the context it was. I feel sorry for Bretton though given the line of questioning.
 
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