Brand Split Discussion

[Valheru]

Since this is the biggest development in pro wrestling in recent history and to prevent it getting lost in the shuffle of the usual discussions in the spoilers thread, I thought this deserved its own thread. The point of the thread is to discuss news and rumours until the event actually happens in July and to post what you as a wrestling fan would like to see.

For me, this is a clear case of not knowing what you have until it’s gone, most of us could not wait for it to end last time, however I think it is necessary now and I am optimistic about the possibilities. Since 2011 Smackdown has regressed to its 1999-2001 situation of being the B show to RAW where very little of consequence happened. That situation will obviously change and if done well the WWE will have more viewers on a weekly basis. So, what I would like to see is as follows:

1 Two world champions

This is the topic dividing most fans at the moment but for me it is an absolute must if both shows are to be legitimised and treated as separate entities. Each show must have a champion so all respective talent have something to aim for. Last time, the WWE title was treated more seriously than the world title for obvious reasons, to ensure that doesn’t happen I would rename the title the WWE RAW champion and the WWE Smackdown champion or something similar. I would also have both belts identical in design with arbitrary differences like a red lining for RAW and blue for Smackdown.

2 Drafts and Talent swap

After the initial draft to split the brands, I would have a draft the night after mania every year but both shows drafting only NXT talent. This adheres to the traditional meaning of a draft and eliminates the contrived draft of the 2002-11 period. In order to recycle talent and keep things fresh I would implement a trade window every year where the respective GMs trade talent (there would be specific Kayfabe rules around this which I haven’t thought about yet)

3 Complete and Utter Separation

No talent turning up to invade other shows, no cross brand feuds at Mania and no choice for the Royal Rumble winner. In order for the split to work, I think complete separation needs to be maintained as much as possible. The exemptions would be the Royal Rumble match, a reintroduced King of the Ring PPV (The final match only) and a yearly PPV ala Bragging rights. As mentioned, the winner of the rumble match is obliged to go for their brands title at wrestlemania. The King of the Ring is another way to elevate a main event talent each year and would be used in lieu of the stale MiTB concept. The bragging rights PPV (I would name it something else) would happen in either September or October and contain 1 cross brand match. This can take different forms each year and the winner will have earnt their brand a special privilege (something like the 30th spot in the rumble or the mania main event slot).

4 Brand Individuality

This one is a no brainer and whilst I advocate 2 world titles, I don’t advocate the retention of both the IC and US titles, nor do I advocate the addition of another women’s title or tag titles. I would split the tag and women’s titles across the brands, scrap the US title and put the IC title on one brand and have a reinstated cruiserweight title on the other brand. That way you have 3 titles on each brand which is the right number to me. I would be open to a 4th title on each brand if they found it necessary, the idea of a TV title which is defended every week is of particular interest. A submission title is another title of interest as well.

So, they are some of the ideas and/or things I would like to see. Looking forward to seeing what everyone else would like to see implemented.

 

[d3@t3h]

I would mark so hard if Smackdown was renamed Nitro with Shane O Mac's Nitro having big gold WHC, US Title, cruiserweight title and separate Tag title.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

My thoughts from the WWE SuperThread.

If they split the top title, it will be a cop out. Have the champion float between the shows, and use the IC & US Titles as the top title of each program. That will elevate those titles back to a point of importance, and allows the WWE to present one champion overall.

 

[joel caine number 1 fan]

My thoughts from the WWE SuperThread.

if i have to watch roman reigns on both show im done he is the most boring wrestler ive seen
even xpac had more charisma and wrestling abilty than him

and no point in having a brand split unless your gonna go all the way and split them that means no champs going over to which show they feel like

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

The problem with having one champion overall is, how would that work?
Would he have 2 feuds going? One for SD and one for RAW?
Does he show up on both shows? Does the champ and number 1 contender become members of both rosters?

Personally, I'd prefer two champions. You could go the Raw champ and SD champ and that be that. Or (i'd prefer) the World Heavyweight Champion and the WWE Champion, but not make one look stronger than the other.

Its a split, they should be as separate as possible for me. The only times I'd like to see the two mix would be the big 4

On one show, have the main title (Raw or SD title), the tag team OR womens title and then either the IC or the US title. On the other show, have the other so Raw/SD title, Womens/Tag (whichever the other brand doesn't) and then either IC/US

If you are desperate for a cruiserweight, then have that and possibly a TV title too but I'd be careful not to oversaturate with belts.

Night after mania, the brands can draft say 3 or 5 people from the other brand - champions excluded, and also draft up from NXT to keep things fresh

 

[Last Week]

Well, the draft is going to be another ratings puller, and the Raw after mania doesn't need a ratings boost. I'd actually put it after Summerslam. Shake things up in the middle of the year and keep it fresh.

I'd prefer if there were just the one champion, but I don't think it's logistically possible and I don't have the faith in the writers to be able to do it. It also makes the other show somewhat irrelevant. Say the champ is having a feud with someone from Raw, what's the big picture at Smackdown? I get it, the US or IC title should be respected more, but it's just a contest for 2nd.

I personally started to lose interest in the brand split when it was Raw vs Smackdown at Survivor Series. Don't need that. I like the 15 raw stars and 15 smackdown stars in the rumble. Makes it that little bit more special.

Im open to the occasional cross brand match at Mania. I loved Taker vs Kane and 20, HBK vs Angle, Lesnar vs Goldberg was built up well. But it does need to be kept to a bare minimum.

Different sets. They really need their own look and branding. Not the same set but with different coloured lights.

Most importantly, Raw needs to go back to 2 hours.

 

[redvscotty]

I'm with Scotty's Lovechild on this one.

WWE Champ floats between both, picking fights with whoever he wants/defends from those who pick fights with him.

IC title on Smackdown, US on Raw. Womens on Raw, X Division like title on Smackdown.

Shane has to be on Smackdown straight up.

A tag title on each show.

With the floating champ, you have a chance to facilitate natural talent cycling over both shows.

Say Reigns has the title. Cena and Rollins are feuding on Raw for whatever reason and one of them calls out the champ. Triple threat at the next PPV and Cenawinslol. Reigns and Rollins are now feuding, and AJ calls up Cena from the Smackdown roster. AJ wins, Cena is on Smackdown and you've got a whole bunch of people wanting to kick the shit out of him. AJ can go defend against Raw blokes for a bit. This happens over the space of say 12 months so it isnt like they are trading every 30 days.

Other than that, complete separation.

 

[Big Pete]

Nobody really knows anything at this stage, even the WWE are trying to figure a few things out but one of the rumours going around is that the Post-Mania show will be a SuperShow featuring both Raw and SmackDown talent which makes sense and is an easy way to book a big show.

Since 2011 Smackdown has regressed to its 1999-2001 situation of being the B show to RAW where very little of consequence happened.

It's been even worse. At least back then guys like Austin, Rock and HHH would work that show and you'd get the odd bit of angle advancement.

Since 2011, it's been more like WCW Thunder where nothing of interest happened (well until Russo joined the mix).

1 Two world champions

I don't like it, but at the end of the day it's a business decision. If having two champions happens to draw more than having an Undisputed Champion then so be it. The trick is alternating the focus. Once it became apparent in 2006 that the SmackDown Championship was the lesser belt, then the gap truly began to open up.

2 Drafts and Talent swap

Again, I don't like it but I can see the WWE doing a lottery draft every year to shake things up. If they did it around September to coincide with Sweeps Week and help build up Wrestlemania, I believe it would be ideal.

If it wasn't about ratings and making money, I'd prefer to base the comings and goings entirely on social media and the WWE website.

eg. BREAKING: Ziggler released from Raw deal. Has signed a 2 year contract with SmackDown. Watch Network for details.

I think that would generate more interest and provide the writers with more flexibility but again, I can't see it happening.

3 Complete and Utter Separation

There's got to be a few super-shows sprinkled out just to keep things fresh through out the year. Otherwise I agree, there needs to be a concerted effort to make both brands feel deep and to really build these guys as stars. Otherwise both brands are just going to feel diluted.

I'd love to see more squash matches. I know some fans find them to be old hat but I think NXT has shown that an even balance of enhancement matches and showcase matches can really make for quality television. If you can have say two showcase matches and three possibly four squash matches each week it would create a nice balance and help create more stars in the process. I actually find the current product funny in the sense that they give us these great match ups like Zayn-Cesaro and it doesn't mean any where near as much as what it should. If you give these guys enough wins, present them as bad-asses I believe it will go more than an even collection of three star matches ever could.

Also more promos. I'm not talking drawn out in-ring promos, just backstage stuff to help get the personalities over and sell the matches.

Going back to Valheru's point, I'd like to see Brand Exclusive PPVs make a return. Ideally it gives you around two months per roster to build to a new show and with so much talent involved I believe they can pull it off a lot better than what they did in say 2006 where they were spread very thinly.

 

[steggz]

Going back to Valheru's point, I'd like to see Brand Exclusive PPVs make a return. Ideally it gives you around two months per roster to build to a new show and with so much talent involved I believe they can pull it off a lot better than what they did in say 2006 where they were spread very thinly.

2006 had 16 PPVs! That's insane!

I like the idea of eight solo brand shows to go with the big 4. With the Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam and Survivor Series in their traditional spots, a PPV calendar could look like:
Jan: Rumble
Feb: Does this need to be a two brand show in the leadup to Mania?
Late March/Early April: Mania
Late April: Raw
May: SD
June: Raw
July: SD
August: Summerslam
September: Raw
October: SD
November: Survivor
December: Another two brand to match Feb?

 

[Big Pete]

2006 had 16 PPVs! That's insane!

I like the idea of eight solo brand shows to go with the big 4. With the Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam and Survivor Series in their traditional spots, a PPV calendar could look like:
Jan: Rumble
Feb: Does this need to be a two brand show in the leadup to Mania?
Late March/Early April: Mania
Late April: Raw
May: SD
June: Raw
July: SD
August: Summerslam
September: Raw
October: SD
November: Survivor
December: Another two brand to match Feb?

That's insane.

Two of those would have been ECW shows, but still with 14 shows, no wonder the PPVs seemed weak.

That seems like a good line-up.

I'd bring back King of the Ring and make it the June show (I like the Superbowl idea proposed earlier). The King of the Ring goes onto face their respective champion at SummerSlam.

Who ends up where folks?

Roman - Raw?
Cena - SmackDown?

Who joins them?

 

[Last Week]

January - Rumble (Joint)
February - Smackdown (I'd be tempted to just get rid of this PPV. So that momentum to Mania isn't disrupted)
March - Mania (Joint)
April - Raw
May - Smackdown
June - Raw
July - Smackdown
August - Summerslam (Joint) (Raw or Smackdown after, draft)
September - Raw
October - Smackdown
November - Survivor Series (Joint)
December - Raw

No more gimmick matches as pay per views. Bring to the actual matches into the story line. Don't have an elimination chamber match just because you have to. Have it because there's 5 super stars who are challenging for the title. When ever that may be.

I can see the WWE creating even more pay per views though, trying to get more subscribes to the network. Just a matter of time too before Smackdown is on the Network permanently too.

 

[pennywisealfie]

That's actually a good point, they could probably have a brand exclusive PPV each month, as it would be pretty easy for them to run on the WWE network.

The more titles the better. 2 world champs.

I hate the brand split, but if they are going to do it, go all out. Make it seem like they are 2 different companies.

 

[Evil_Mush]

I'm just glad we'll (hopefully) be finally rid of the dreaded token canned crowd cheers/boos on Smackdown, which have always been horrible.
Now if they would only get rid of the camera change from a backstage interview/vignette to the crowd watching the backstage interview/vignette on the big screen (from all shows) that would be two of my big pet peeves gone in one go!

Will see how it goes, the draft thing does interest me, though in the short term at least it's still gonna be very McMahon-heavy in terms of the overarching reason for the brand split, so we won't be rid of the half hour McMahon/HHH promos/slappings just yet!

 

[steggz]

That's insane.

Two of those would have been ECW shows, but still with 14 shows, no wonder the PPVs seemed weak.

There was 2 ECW PPVs. Calendar order was:

New Year's Revolution (Raw)
Rumble
No Way Out (SD)
Mania
Backlash (Raw)
Judgement Day (SD)
One Night Stand (ECW)
Vengeance (Raw)
Great American Bash (SD)
Summerslam
Unforgiven (Raw)
No Mercy (SD)
Cyber Sunday (Raw)
Survivor Series
December to Dismember (ECW)
Armageddon (SD)

Two things to notice :
1. I often have bemoaned the loss of some of the old PPV names, but there's not much on here I'd bring back. I always like Backlash as the first after Mania, Payback is similar but not as good.

2. Only one PPV is gimmick-based, Cyber Sunday. And it's a good gimmick. A mix of voting on match stipulations and opponents, something I would like to see return. Compare to this year, where you have Extreme Rules, MITB, Hell in a Cell and TLC. MITB needs to go back to Mania, Extreme Rules and TLC are pretty much the same thing and you could make the case for one hardcore PPV, and HIAC shouldn't be a PPV gimmick

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

anyone wanna do a split Raw/Smackdown EWR game/diary?

Get at me, I gots time to kill...

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

Was actually contemplating doing a diary for it.
Sadly my knowledge of current wrestlers isn't the best.

Was then thinking of doing to do it with WWE 14' and doing a complete new draft using a site like
http://www.textfixer.com/tools/random-choice.php
Inserting the current roster (no Legends), and alternating to who goes to SD and who goes to Raw. Then building shows with whatever rosters it gives me and titles accordingly.

As I'd be doing them randomly, it may be that one show has no tag teams thus wouldn't get belts, or no divas etc.
Then I'd look at doing a draft for the legends who could make sporadic appearances/used on a part time basis

Then I was thinking of using NXT later on for people who weren't getting used (eg if say Heath Slater wasn't getting used) But that wouldn't be right away as it depends who has things going for them

That being said, I may just cut the use out of wwe 14 completley but just work with their roster and just free-write episodes etc. Depends if I have enough time/can be bothered with it

For a current wwe timeframe, right now is the perfect opportunity to do a diary

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

That being said, if anyone is looking at doing a diary from the draft,
I'd gladly put my hand up and assist with draft (pick for a brand) if you need it?