Brian Smith Vs Steve Folkes

Discussion in 'Parramatta Eels' started by Eelectrica, Sep 27, 2003.

  1. Eelectrica

    Eelectrica Coach

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    With this loss to the Roosters I was curious to see the finals record of the two coaches since 1998 - The first year of Steve Folkes fruitless reign as Cantebury coach.
    In that time Both teams have played 12 finals matches.
    Cantebury have a 6-6 win/loss record
    Parra have a 7-5 Win Loss record.
    Cantebury for/against is 251-271
    Parra for/against is 294-204

    So in finals even after all the money the Doggies spent trying to buy the premiership Parra have a better record.
    A lot of people have mentioned Smiths 7 years without premiership success, Folkes is only one year behind and will reach 7 years next year.
     
  2. El Diablo

    El Diablo Post Whore

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    But have you ever seen any fans call Folkes a messiah?

    Smith's fans think he's some kind of super coach yet I wouldn't rate him any better than Folkes.
     
  3. Misty Bee

    Misty Bee First Grade

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    Another thing in Smiths favour as a finals coach - no floggings.

    But El is correct. No one hails Folkes as a messiah, yet Smiths supporters think he is God almighty.

    BTW, Ricky Stuart is 6-0 in 2 seasons.

    Any one got Wayne Bennets for a comparison?
     
  4. Y2Eel

    Y2Eel First Grade

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    Your right bout doggies fans thinking he isnt the messiah folkes to them is better then the messiah head over to there sites ive got mates that love him........
     
  5. Chipmunk

    Chipmunk Coach

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    Folkesy gets the job cause of the old family connection at the Dogs. He has probably had better players over the last two years to work so you would expect more. I think they will struggle next year.

    I believe Smith is a high quality coach but I am no longer a fan of him staying at Parra. His use by date is well and truly over. In my opinion he is putting all his cards on the table for next year. He has had a big clean out and replaced them with heaps of players, all of them his choice to come to the Club. If the Club has given him this responsibility and the Club isnt in the Top 4 in 2004 then Smith must be punted. Simple as that
     
  6. Agent Mulder

    Agent Mulder Bench

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    Bulldogs like Parramatta in 2001 blew there best chances in the past two years.
     
  7. Suitman

    Suitman Immortal

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    Smiths not the messiah.

    He's just a very naughty boy.

    Suity
     
  8. Stagger eel

    Stagger eel Moderator Staff Member

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    I've thought long and hard over the last few weeks about the Smith situation and I know I was one of backers!! I am now prepared to only give him 1 more year. in other words no top 8, pay him out!!! and offer the job to either JT, Alan Wilson, Dean Pay, Laurie Daley or Glenn Lazarus
     
  9. half

    half Coach

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    i would love glenn lazarus at the club

    i don't think the guy knows the meaning of losing
     
  10. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

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    Ok.

    Here's the thing - I'm a SMith fan, but I don't think he's a Messiah. Reason? NO coach ever will be. I think the biggest issue for Parra at the moment is a confidence issue.

    I look at the Roosters and Panthers forward line ups and say, "Damn! Great pack!" I look at Parra's and say, "WOW!" The difference is in the way they play.

    We need to be more aggro and desperate. But that is another point.

    My comments on Brian - I believe that ANYONE who claims a coach is good based solely on Finals or Premiership wins is a bit of a nutter. Other factors (such as players-turned-superstars, late-season-charges and the ability to pull a struggling team and make them competitive) are massivley important in deciding how good a coach is. Let us review these:

    1.) Players - No doubt Brian has released a lot of talented players which ticks a lot of fans off, but he also seems to have a knack of refeshing 'unknown' or 'unrated' talent. Take Dunley. He was never as great as he was when he played for Parra. Another case is Hopkins; VERY unrated, and yet he turned out to be one of our best. No doubt players like Armit, Graham, Burt, Lyon, Hindy, Caylo, Vella and Witty (plus many more) will thrive through BS's coaching. And where's the proof? I am very sure that if we were t release Hopkins, VElla and CAylo, they'd be snapped up quite quickly by teams.

    2.) Late-season charges - after 15 rounds of football, we had 5 wins and 10 losses. In the second half of the season, we managed to turn that around, and were playing some excellent football - testament to this is the matches against Brisbane and the Dragons, and even to an extent, Penrith. We were giving teams a shake-up and we were playing well. I think the players pulled their hands out, but also Brian made some choices and calls which worked favourably. The end result (missing out of a finals berth), though disappointing, is pleasing - we finished off the season with a flourish of good form, and with key players like Burt (our best back before injury) and Vella (if he finds form alongside Caylo, then watch out!) returning from injury, and with younger bloes like Cannings, Tsolous and Armit rapidly rising through the ranks, the next few years looks bright for Parra.

    3.) Competitiveness - against Penrith we were beaten. But I think we proved to be competitive for most of the match. Against Canterbury earlier on we were competitive. In both instances, the scoreline didn't reflect the effort put in by the boys. But early in the season we struggled, but for some matches (like Brissie, in both cases) we turned up to play. The KNights in Newcastle were on fire, but we took it to them to the very last whistle.

    It is these signs as well as Premiership success which determines how great a coach is.

    Personally, I respect and support Smith for the above reasons, and have good enough reason to feel excited for the next few years.
     
  11. El Diablo

    El Diablo Post Whore

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    I detest Lazarus. I'd hate to see him at Para. Besides, what coaching has he ever really done?

    His time at the Broncos has not helped them do anything.
     
  12. Ron Jeremy

    Ron Jeremy Coach

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    I agree!!........could be worse though.....Steve Roach :lol: :lol: :lol: .......his under /23's side a few years ago for Souths im sure came dead last!!

    I'd personally like to see the likes of Dean Pay as our coach or Laurie Daley for different instances......both where great players in there right!!
     
  13. Chipmunk

    Chipmunk Coach

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    I think the man for the job is the Local guy that we let get away - Daniel Anderson
     
  14. Ron Jeremy

    Ron Jeremy Coach

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    I doubt he would come back in a hurry though....considering his success with the Warriors & im sure his contract has been extended for another couple of years!!

    JT would be an asset i feel also.....i think alot of people might be underestimating him??
     
  15. Chipmunk

    Chipmunk Coach

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    I agree with your thoughts on Anderson coming back. As I said, I think he is the option that got away.

    JT maybe in a few years, but not yet. I think we need a change of coach now! Dean Pay I think would be a good option, but I dont know if he really wants to be a Head Coach. I am sure if Smith was to go and there was an applications were called for that there would be no shortage of applicants and coaches wanting to get out of their current jobs!
     
  16. Ron Jeremy

    Ron Jeremy Coach

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    I hope Fitzy isn't our Human Resources manager either :lol: :lol: ......i think he might be though :cry:

    knowing our luck he'll tell the likes of Pay, Daley to scat and sign Paul Cariage or Ben Kusto as our coach :lol: :lol:
     
  17. slippery eel

    slippery eel Juniors

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    Folkes and Smith has both achieved the same thing - nothing!. The only difference is what someone said earlier - under Brian Smith the Eels have never been flogged until this year!.
     

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