Captain Crisis

[Steven Gerrard]

Stuart and Gould have won one premiership at the Roosters with Stuart at the helm. I hardly say they are successful. Sure they made the Grand Finals a few times, but walked away with FA.

Honestly, Stuart will not come back to Canberra. So who can you suggest to us, will be the Coach to save us? Tell me. I'd seriously like to know. Chris Anderson? Paul Langmack?

Get a grip. We have a great coach. Elliott has won a Premiership with Bradford, and believe me, he can do the same with Canberra.

 

[lotm]

lotm knows what he's talking about.

Word!

lets all rejoice at the word of lotm

*chant chant chant*

i'd like to exchange that chant for a response.

or haven't you got one?

 

[Chippo Raiders]

Since when was our club going to the grave though? :|

I use that term as an anolgy for residing at the bottom of the table.

Any comparision of the Raiders should be against those who have been more successful .....

Therefore I ask you this question ... do you honestly believe we would be in the situation we currently find ourselves if we were administered by a Gould and coached by a Stuart. Irrespective of whether you like these guys or not they have produced the goods and will continue to do so at the expense of teams such as ours.

We have another 3 to 4 years before we will compete on a regular basis with the big boys ... and thats on top of Elliots 4 years in which time we have achieved sweet FA. Maybe I'm not patient enough to wait another four years to find out we have again not moved a single inch.

I realised rather quickly in Elliots term that he was not the coach to take us the next step .... three years later I think my suspicions have been confirmed.

I will continue to support my team because I am a real supporter. But dont ask me to support management or coach until I see some substantial improvement in the team ... and not just tinkering about the edges with short term success.

You are talking rubbish.

1. Elliot has moved us forward, in 2003 we got somewhere that by rights we never deserved to be but 12 months later he can't coach? **** that s*** man we need stability first and formost NO Tinkering, tinkering is the way we ruin a club. Mal Meninga started coaching us after our successful period, and no offence to Big Mal, top bloke, but he can't coach. He drove us down, Elliott got us Clinton Schifcofske, Michael Hodgson and various others so IMO he is the best thing that has happened to us since sliced bread.

Done sweet FA???????? He signed Todd Carney till 2008, and got us into the finals last year as a VERY competitive team, HE is the reason for our success so much so this year we were riddled by injuries/suspensions to Wiki and Davico and Weyman but he kept us going. Elliott is respected around the NRL too a fav for general fans. We need to build and build we shall, we have made "intelligent signings" in 2005 Elliotts connections are good to, throughout England, St George and Parramatta, and Steve Walters and Wayne Collins will play big parts in 2005. Lets not criticise now lets wait to 2005, once I think he has had enough I will jump on the bandwagon but for now I am very much in Elliotts corner

 

[Steven Gerrard]

Where you been Chippo?

 

[Kris_man]

1. Elliot has moved us forward

he had one good year, 2003, what abuot the 3 others? it's like, you have one good year, and the 3 other crap years are forgiven?? and i don't wanna hear anything like "2004 was good, we made the finals". we scraped into the finals, and we got beaten comprehensively once we got there, not to mention that it was a big step down from 2003, and the hallmark of a good coach is not quantitative results, but comparitive results: how much he improves the team.

Done sweet FA???????? He signed Todd Carney till 2008

he also based our 2004 plan on the assumption that Brad Drew would be a good halfback. he also has blind faith in nevilles like Troy Thompson and Jason Bulgarelli. he was also responsible for f**king up Phil Graham's career.

 

[Chippo Raiders]

1. Elliot has moved us forward

he had one good year, 2003, what abuot the 3 others? it's like, you have one good year, and the 3 other crap years are forgiven?? and i don't wanna hear anything like "2004 was good, we made the finals". we scraped into the finals, and we got beaten comprehensively once we got there, not to mention that it was a big step down from 2003, and the hallmark of a good coach is not quantitative results, but comparitive results: how much he improves the team.

Done sweet FA???????? He signed Todd Carney till 2008

he also based our 2004 plan on the assumption that Brad Drew would be a good halfback. he also has blind faith in nevilles like Troy Thompson and Jason Bulgarelli. he was also responsible for f**king up Phil Graham's career.

HE BOUGHT CHOC OUR BEST PLAYER AS OF Next year does that count for nothing, he bought Hindmarsh and Hodgson who are our second row and Mogg who has played well and developed Weyman in the front row.

Mate we almost had the minor premiership in 2003, he did that with a bunch of players that weren't reps or much better than good players.

Phil Grahams career isn't over........so how does that statement work. Mate you are upset with Elliott, you are pointing at the wrong man. We got smashed in the final against the Roosters YES correct... but we were without Simon Woolford, Luke Davico, Ruben was a passenger ALL game. We were down 4-0 after 20 minutes it was Choc's sinbinning that lost us the match, I am proud of the effort we showed, were you.

I mean if the Roosters were without Fittler, Finch, Morley and Fitzgibbon, they'd blame the loss on that if they lost, but us???? no... Elliott was to blame, **** that. Elliott now has Wayne Collins as his assistant coach, a sure sign he will blood a few PL players, can you not see it, its a plan, we must work to the plan no matter how hard it gets, it gets a little hard for some and they start pointing the finger, there is a little saying about that and trenches that I need not mention.

 

[Bay56]

Chippo Raiders ... you're initials arent ME are they ....

mate so much confidence in the coach who has produced nothing at this club in his four year reign other than one good season (that was based upon G&D rather than constructive attacking football, that was always going to come back a bite us in the arse as per 2004).

He signed Carney ..... what a coach !!!! ... brilliant stuff Elliot .... gees no other coach could have reached such dizzy heights as our Matty.

And a premiership with Bradford ... well say no more, sign him up for life.

Talking rubbish ??? .... we'll see mate.

 

[Chippo Raiders]

Chippo Raiders ... you're initials arent ME are they ....

mate so much confidence in the coach who has produced nothing at this club in his four year reign other than one good season (that was based upon G&D rather than constructive attacking football, that was always going to come back a bite us in the arse as per 2004).

He signed Carney ..... what a coach !!!! ... brilliant stuff Elliot .... gees no other coach could have reached such dizzy heights as our Matty.

And a premiership with Bradford ... well say no more, sign him up for life.

Talking rubbish ??? .... we'll see mate.

Are your initials RW????????

He is a sensible coach started with a **** roster when he joined and has strengthened it considerably. You need to see things from a logical and more trusting POV

And what bit us on the arse wasn't the style of play it was the fact we signed no one. Yes a mistake, I admit from Matty Elliott but he saw our juniors as our future maybe a little too much.

 

[Kris_man]

Mate you are upset with Elliott, you are pointing at the wrong man. We got smashed in the final against the Roosters YES correct... but we were without Simon Woolford, Luke Davico, Ruben was a passenger ALL game. We were down 4-0 after 20 minutes it was Choc's sinbinning that lost us the match, I am proud of the effort we showed, were you.

it was a disgraceful effort. i've never seen any team, in all my years of watching rugby league, play more negative football. to me, its the unforgivable sin. we can lose, we can get smashed, OK, but when we go out with the plan to spoil the game, to kick out at every opportunity, to have front rowers doing dummy half runs, when dummy half runs account for 3-4 tackles of every set, then i'm disgusted, and ashamed to be a Raiders fan. the Cowboys did not get to the semis playing spoiler football, and there are countless other examples in the past of teams who go out to play shut-up-shop football, and end up losing. the 2004 grand final is not a bad example either of a team who played shut-up-shop footy (hello Brett Finch) and lost.

Phil Grahams career isn't over........so how does that statement work

Phil Graham could have, and should have, been playing rep footy by now, at least City Country. and how about the example of McLinden - he's done nothing under Elliott, he's gone backwards. the point is, you're using the success of Hodgson and Mogg to praise Elliott, but it seems that you're not prepared to look at the much larger sample of players who have failed under Elliott. on Ian Hindmarsh: he was a country rep player before he came to us, now he's not, so he's not a good example for your cause. i think there are two Key Performance Indicators for a coach:
1) improved results from the team; and
2) improved performances/results from individual players.

i really don't think that Elliott's done either. the success of guys like Rhino, Mogg and Joel Monaghan really aren't enough for me to outweigh the failures of Thompson, Drew, Bulgarelli, Graham, McLinden, etc.

 

[Chippo Raiders]

Mate you are upset with Elliott, you are pointing at the wrong man. We got smashed in the final against the Roosters YES correct... but we were without Simon Woolford, Luke Davico, Ruben was a passenger ALL game. We were down 4-0 after 20 minutes it was Choc's sinbinning that lost us the match, I am proud of the effort we showed, were you.

it was a disgraceful effort. i've never seen any team, in all my years of watching rugby league, play more negative football. to me, its the unforgivable sin. we can lose, we can get smashed, OK, but when we go out with the plan to spoil the game, to kick out at every opportunity, to have front rowers doing dummy half runs, when dummy half runs account for 3-4 tackles of every set, then i'm disgusted, and ashamed to be a Raiders fan. the Cowboys did not get to the semis playing spoiler football, and there are countless other examples in the past of teams who go out to play shut-up-shop football, and end up losing. the 2004 grand final is not a bad example either of a team who played shut-up-shop footy (hello Brett Finch) and lost.

Phil Grahams career isn't over........so how does that statement work

Phil Graham could have, and should have, been playing rep footy by now, at least City Country. and how about the example of McLinden - he's done nothing under Elliott, he's gone backwards. the point is, you're using the success of Hodgson and Mogg to praise Elliott, but it seems that you're not prepared to look at the much larger sample of players who have failed under Elliott. on Ian Hindmarsh: he was a country rep player before he came to us, now he's not, so he's not a good example for your cause. i think there are two Key Performance Indicators for a coach:
1) improved results from the team; and
2) improved performances/results from individual players.

i really don't think that Elliott's done either. the success of guys like Rhino, Mogg and Joel Monaghan really aren't enough for me to outweigh the failures of Thompson, Drew, Bulgarelli, Graham, McLinden, etc.

Graham is a QLDer he wouldn't play City Country, Graham has been injured twice he will come good, HE GOT Graham in the first place, McLinden played his best footy last year, the other years he performed whilst Daley was there. Ian Hindmarsh hasn't gotten worse, Michael Hodgson was always a better player than Hindy and now shows it, he got Michael Weyman too,

You still didn't say anything about the fact we were without the heart of our team against the Roosters......

 

[lotm]

Chippo Raiders ... you're initials arent ME are they ....

mate so much confidence in the coach who has produced nothing at this club in his four year reign other than one good season (that was based upon G&D rather than constructive attacking football, that was always going to come back a bite us in the arse as per 2004).

He signed Carney ..... what a coach !!!! ... brilliant stuff Elliot .... gees no other coach could have reached such dizzy heights as our Matty.

And a premiership with Bradford ... well say no more, sign him up for life.

Talking rubbish ??? .... we'll see mate.

i notice another post with a distinct lack of reference to my question.

criticise management and elliot all you want, but to spout off and say "sack the lot of them" without a viable succession plan (or in your case, any plan at all) is extremely naive, shortsighted and imprudent.

have you shown your true colours by simply avoiding questions that make you uncomfortable? poor effort.

 

[lotm]

Graham is a QLDer he wouldn't play City Country

i thought graham was from tamworth.

i was way off. :?

 

[Chippo Raiders]

Graham is a QLDer he wouldn't play City Country

i thought graham was from tamworth.

i was way off. :?

I will check but I am certain he was named as possibles for QLD last year in the Tele

Edit: sorry your right I apologise........

 

[Bay56]

Chippo Raiders ... you're initials arent ME are they ....

mate so much confidence in the coach who has produced nothing at this club in his four year reign other than one good season (that was based upon G&D rather than constructive attacking football, that was always going to come back a bite us in the arse as per 2004).

He signed Carney ..... what a coach !!!! ... brilliant stuff Elliot .... gees no other coach could have reached such dizzy heights as our Matty.

And a premiership with Bradford ... well say no more, sign him up for life.

Talking rubbish ??? .... we'll see mate.

i notice another post with a distinct lack of reference to my question.

criticise management and elliot all you want, but to spout off and say "sack the lot of them" without a viable succession plan (or in your case, any plan at all) is extremely naive, shortsighted and imprudent.

have you shown your true colours by simply avoiding questions that make you uncomfortable? poor effort.

a "viable succession plan" ... err yes, I'm on to it right now lotm, hang in there boy it's ensuing.

Ha, didnt take me long for the first bit .... sack Elliot and replace him with Snoppy until we get the signature of someone who knows how to spell the word "attack" as in "attacking football".

The rest to come shortly (boy this is uncomfortable stuff :lol: :lol: ). Do you want a lformal submission, with fancy coloured photos and a you beut cover :lol: :lol:

 

[lotm]

you've got nothing. you plan to replace a coach who's won an esl premiership and coached first-grade nrl for several seasons with an unproven rookie coach? what makes you think that collins is even suitable for first grade? his premier league results? nrl's a completely different kettle of fish. what happened to your "we need to get stuart or bellamy or daley back" theory? unviable and ignorant, was it? not surprising.

who knows how to spell the word "attack" as in "attacking football".

we'll see what attacking football we come up with next season. you'd be a terrible coach if you coached differently to what elliot did with the personnel he had. he coached towards the team's strength and what looked ugly, rather than to their weakness and what looked pretty. if he hadn't, we wouldn't have made the 8. we didn't have the players to play the attacking footy you wanted.

elliot then goes out and purchases players to make us more attacking (smith, frawley, ale, withers etc) and you're still hoplessly clinging on to this argument. #-o

The rest to come shortly

the fact that you hadn't even thought of what would happen after you sacked management and elliot proves how imprudent your comments were.

(boy this is uncomfortable stuff ).

so why, pray tell, did you avoid answering my question?

your plan is terrible and your comments improvident. sounds like a recurring theme with your posts.

 

[thickos]

I'd like to weigh in with my two cents worth on this one.

Firstly I think Bay56, while many disagree with him, makes a lot of sense. (That's not to say I agree with him!) He is the kind of guy every organisation needs - he wants the Raiders to stay on the ball and not fall behind the pack. As do all of us.

That said, I'm not ready to hunt Elliott down with a flame thrower yet (in reference to a post on the debate page). I think he, and management, have turned the place around since they came in in early 2002. When they came in we were 1-7, bottom of the table and playing absolutely SHIT with a lot of internal turmoil. If they had kept that up even *I* would be sounding like Bay56. But since the broom went through they had a reasonable end to 2002, a great 2003 and a downturn in 04. But what is important is, IMO, the club is on the right track.

Sure, they erred with the retention policy this year and not signing anyone last yr. But they had faith in the crop of kids we had.

It didn't work out. Thats footy. But in becoming aggressive in the market - Ale, Withers, Frawley, Smith, Adamson, the Howells, Goodwin - they have learnt from their mistake. Smith and Adamson might be gambles but they have had a go - we wont die wondering. Similarly having Boxhead in a recruiting role is a big positive.

I'm actually incredibly excited about 05 as I think we are going to prove a lot of people wrong.

Anyways, regarding Withers-Woolford situation, well Germ has been an outstanding and loyal player for us. I think he should be able to go on his own terms. But if the club/coach/germ recognise he is past his prime and it would be a negative to keep him on - is it wrong to give him a subtle push???

 

[Raider_69]

But what is important is, IMO, the club is on the right track

true that, but i have serious doubts, as im sure many have weather these people that run our club can keep us on the right track.

 

[Raider_69]

The rest to come shortly (boy this is uncomfortable stuff :lol: :lol: ). Do you want a lformal submission, with fancy coloured photos and a you beut cover :lol: :lol:

id appreciate that thanks bay :lol:

 

[jed]

Sure, they erred with the retention policy this year and not signing anyone last yr. But they had faith in the crop of kids we had.

It didn't work out. Thats footy.

None of us were sure how the policy of "trust our up and coming players" would go. Theoretically it made sense - we lost Lolesi and Rutcho, but with the Premiership-winning PL side (which was fortunate - the GF was 3 months after the silly-season started), but things looked good.

As it turns out, 2004 wasn't anywhere near as good as we'd hoped. But if Elliott & management's gamble had paid off, we would all be cheering Elliott's praises at every opportunity. Yes, even Bay56 & Krisman.

Hindsight is 20-20, but they should also be given credit for actually attempting something diferent, rather than being sheep and turning over a half-dozen players for the sake of doing it.

 

[greeneyed]

you've got nothing. you plan to replace a coach who's won an esl premiership and coached first-grade nrl for several seasons with an unproven rookie coach? what makes you think that collins is even suitable for first grade? his premier league results? nrl's a completely different kettle of fish. what happened to your "we need to get stuart or bellamy or daley back" theory? unviable and ignorant, was it? not surprising.

who knows how to spell the word "attack" as in "attacking football".

we'll see what attacking football we come up with next season. you'd be a terrible coach if you coached differently to what elliot did with the personnel he had. he coached towards the team's strength and what looked ugly, rather than to their weakness and what looked pretty. if he hadn't, we wouldn't have made the 8. we didn't have the players to play the attacking footy you wanted.

elliot then goes out and purchases players to make us more attacking (smith, frawley, ale, withers etc) and you're still hoplessly clinging on to this argument. #-o

The rest to come shortly

the fact that you hadn't even thought of what would happen after you sacked management and elliot proves how imprudent your comments were.

(boy this is uncomfortable stuff ).

so why, pray tell, did you avoid answering my question?

your plan is terrible and your comments improvident. sounds like a recurring theme with your posts.

Winning a Premier League Grand Final isn't too far off an ESL Grand Final...... The quality of player there overall is pretty terrible. Elliott won there with his forwards game plan, that was quickly found out here. Give the coach one more year, but I'll be very surprised if we win a Premiership under him. I hope I'm wrong.