Central Coast Bears, 2013.

[nqboy]

Can you provide a link to this claim?

He shouldn't have to. North Sydney were moving to Gosford and were the prime movers in developing what is now Bluetongue Stadium. If you don't know that, you weren't following the ARL in the mid-90s.

 

[Bluebags1908]

Not a good example. IIRC, John Quayle was leader of the team that "promised" the Bears they would be safe if they moved to the Central Coast and then moved the goalposts to exclude them when they struck trouble.

For all that, JQ was a good leader apart from his naivety in dealings with Packer and his Sydney-centric mentality. If he's on your side, that's a good thing.

That decision had nothing to do with John Quayle. He left the ARL in 1996. The decision to backstab the Bears was done in late 1999/2000 - well after the ARL and Super League formed the NRL, and after pressure from News Limited to reduce the number of clubs to 14. Neil Whittaker was in charge of the ARL in 1997 and then the NRL from 1998-1999 so if you need to blame anyone from the ARL side then blame him.

 

[Goddo]

That's because the North Sydney Bears relocating to the Central Coast was already in the pipeline and being discussed. Plans to move there started way back in the early 90's, years before ARL/Super League when the game was still known as the NSWRL. He knew what was happening.

He also knew the number of NSW teams was unsustainable, especially without growing the game in new markets outside NSW. Remember the ARL had adopted a "survival of the fittest" policy with regards to NSW clubs. This problem was posed in the original ARL "Super League" report from 1991.

Theres a good channel 9 pre grandfinal article that discusses it all on the challenges the game faced from the 93 GF.

edit: found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_zw4Tvuoho

This was a direct contributing factor in SL - arguably Quale was stupid thinking the clubs wouldn't act out to secure their futures. No wonder some jumped at Murdoch's feet when he got SL going. Media rights was the issue that lit the fuse. The game already had plenty of problems.

Question I have is this: the game went through so much pain to cull NSW clubs (because the number that existed was unsustainable) in the 90s. Why would they undo that now, when the big money is still to be had by expanding nationally?

 

[gallagher]

He shouldn't have to. North Sydney were moving to Gosford and were the prime movers in developing what is now Bluetongue Stadium. If you don't know that, you weren't following the ARL in the mid-90s.

So he was all for re-location of a Sydney team, not bringing a new team into the CC.

 

[nqboy]

So he was all for re-location of a Sydney team, not bringing a new team into the CC.

You seem a bit slow, so I'll type slowly. It's the same thing, the Bears based on the Central Coast.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Not a good example. IIRC, John Quayle was leader of the team that "promised" the Bears they would be safe if they moved to the Central Coast and then moved the goalposts to exclude them when they struck trouble.

For all that, JQ was a good leader apart from his naivety in dealings with Packer and his Sydney-centric mentality. If he's on your side, that's a good thing.

I'm sure it was Neil Whittaker who back tracked not John Quale.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

He also knew the number of NSW teams was unsustainable, especially without growing the game in new markets outside NSW. Remember the ARL had adopted a "survival of the fittest" policy with regards to NSW clubs. This problem was posed in the original ARL "Super League" report from 1991.

Theres a good channel 9 pre grandfinal article that discusses it all on the challenges the game faced from the 93 GF.

edit: found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_zw4Tvuoho

This was a direct contributing factor in SL - arguably Quale was stupid thinking the clubs wouldn't act out to secure their futures. No wonder some jumped at Murdoch's feet when he got SL going. Media rights was the issue that lit the fuse. The game already had plenty of problems.

Question I have is this: the game went through so much pain to cull NSW clubs (because the number that existed was unsustainable) in the 90s. Why would they undo that now, when the big money is still to be had by expanding nationally?

How much revenue do Souths ( arguably the most recognized Sydney team) generate for the game regardless of their performances?

 

[Red&BlackBear]

So he was all for re-location of a Sydney team, not bringing a new team into the CC.

Everyone in RL circles know what lengths Norths went to shore up and relocate to the CC. We were the only club who has done such a relocation for the good of the game, region and club. No hand outs either, all off the back of our hard work. Of course he was all for it, that's why we initiated it in the first place.

 

[nqboy]

That decision had nothing to do with John Quayle. He left the ARL in 1996. The decision to backstab the Bears was done in late 1999/2000 - well after the ARL and Super League formed the NRL, and after pressure from News Limited to reduce the number of clubs to 14. Neil Whittaker was in charge of the ARL in 1997 and then the NRL from 1998-1999 so if you need to blame anyone from the ARL side then blame him.

So Quayle wasn't the one to promise the Bears a future at Gosford as a "regional" club?

Granted, Whittaker rolled over and cast them aside in the peace deal but Quayle pointed them there as head of the ARL and it was the ARL that later rolled them.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Also a random off topic thought that my dad brought up once. In hindsight if Norths had to merge with anyone it should have been Balmain.. They could have secured the whole Ryde to Central Coast and would have been extremely popular. North Shore/Sydney Tigers or Balmain Bears would have been far better than a Northern Eagles.

 

[docbrown]

He's talking before Super League when the ARL was going to let Sydney clubs evolve under their own steam.

The Bears would be assured a place because they would be a 1 city team. The NSWRL actually had proposals for a Gosford side back in the late 70s.

 

[docbrown]

Also a random off topic thought that my dad brought up once. In hindsight if Norths had to merge with anyone it should have been Balmain.. They could have secured the whole Ryde to Central Coast and would have been extremely popular. North Shore/Sydney Tigers or Balmain Bears would have been far better than a Northern Eagles.

Only if they weren't relocating.

 

[docbrown]

Fact is we will never have a club with it's base 100% in that part of Sydney again.

However, the Bears can be based 100% on the Central Coast yet they will have the exact same effect.

Honestly, the Central Coast should have had a team before the Broncos had joined the NSWRL even if that had meant relocating a Sydney club back then.

 

[Perth Red]

The writing has been on the wall for 20 years, seems everyone in the ARL has seen it over the decades yet few want to acknowledge it and the league finds ways of delaying it. No doubt clubs will get a decent grant rise next year and that will prolong the strugglers for another few years but the gap is only going to get wider between the haves and have nots. The salary cap keeps things level at the moment but I can;t see those clubs that are losing money hand over fist changing much other than expecting the ARLC to bail them out. May influenc ethe thinkign on Bears/CC don;t know. If the NRL think a team is going to fall over they may want the BEars to fill the void or may want Gosford kept free for a relocation of an existing NRL team. Only the ARLC know I guess?

 

[docbrown]

Honestly forget the relocation fund. Just have a $20,000,000 merger fund - to only be authorised at the ARLC's discretion (just because you apply doesn't mean you'll get it. It has to be a strategic merger, not a cash grab).

First in, best dressed.

 

[Perth Red]

This time add in the clause that if the merger fails both clubs lose the right to apply for the free license!

 

[docbrown]

This time add in the clause that if the merger fails both clubs lose the right to apply for the free license!

:thumb

Or they can only gain reentry once the $20,000,000 is paid back :lol:

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Fact is we will never have a club with it's base 100% in that part of Sydney again.

However, the Bears can be based 100% on the Central Coast yet they will have the exact same effect.

Honestly, the Central Coast should have had a team before the Broncos had joined the NSWRL even if that had meant relocating a Sydney club back then.

One has to think, just how much revenue an already established Central Coast Bears team would have generated if they had just been allowed to follow through on promises and guarantee's. 12 years they would have been based on the CC already. How many fans, members and success they would have had. It's quite depressing actually and something I and many others will never stop fighting for.

It's something I guess you have to live through, something you have to have a passion for to keep fighting for. Many to this day especially on here don't understand it but it's ok, we can only support things we understand.

I take a lot of responsibility in detracting a few on here via debates and arguments, in hindsight I should go about it a different way. In all honesty it's been an extremely exhausting and taxing process to try to get the Central Coast Bears up but i'll never give up. It's just not Australia to do so.

 

[Bluebags1908]

So Quayle wasn't the one to promise the Bears a future at Gosford as a "regional" club?

Granted, Whittaker rolled over and cast them aside in the peace deal but Quayle pointed them there as head of the ARL and it was the ARL that later rolled them.

I'm not sure if Quayle was in charge when Norths instigated their initial moves to the Central Coast. He way well have been. But even if he was, Quayle was long gone from the ARL when Norths were backstabbed.

 

[Goddo]

How much revenue do Souths ( arguably the most recognized Sydney team) generate for the game regardless of their performances?

In terms of actual TV and sponsorship dollars? Not much. Its harder to quantify the value of "brand" Souths, but it wouldn't exceed the deficiency in TV value if you were to give it a dollar figure.

Much easier to assess a non Sydney club.