Charity Shield 2024

[st.phil]

I don't get the scrutiny of Sloan. He would shine in a stronger team.

agree to an extent - he is our only x factor player (despite the hype I don't really see Lomax as that guy) so a lot of focus on him. It's the errors and effort areas that really stand out - he's a laconic / chiller type and it stands out in NRL like dogs balls... it's likely frustrating to team as they see what he can do at training. He's never gonna be Darius Boyd - he does not have to be - but damn, so much would swing if he just charged back hell for leather... he'd likely make a clean break out of pure shock! Also think he gets an extra dose of the yips with Cody and Trell in the audience tho ... lets see

 

[justadragon]

This game highlighted what a poor state the club has been in with respect to the KOE cup players. The way they have been developed and managed over the last few years has been abysmal, not to mention the coaches they have had. Its obvious now for everyone that having strength come within your club is the key and should be the template for the future. My only ultimate wish is that we put some tremendous efforts in to our lower grades and ultimate success will come. Also now that both our SG Ball sides are on fire, lets stop touting the players as immortals and try and push them through to NRL like next week, development and years of it properly coached is absolutely needed, we will never be anything unless our lower grades are strong, we are not Melbourne or Roosters that can just poach anyone. Depth was the harsh reality in the CS and a good kick up the arse for our club.

 

[justadragon]

agree to an extent - he is our only x factor player (despite the hype I don't really see Lomax as that guy) so a lot of focus on him. It's the errors and effort areas that really stand out - he's a laconic / chiller type and it stands out in NRL like dogs balls... it's likely frustrating to team as they see what he can do at training. He's never gonna be Darius Boyd - he does not have to be - but damn, so much would swing if he just charged back hell for leather... he'd likely make a clean break out of pure shock! Also think he gets an extra dose of the yips with Cody and Trell in the audience tho ... lets see

If you compared the Bunnies full back to Sloan, who would you say had the better game ? And that kid hasnt played any NRL I think, you cant blame the forwards for not laying down a good platform in the first half. I'm still prepared to give Sloan time, but it has to run out at some stage.

 

[Wolfgang90]

Some thoughts:

1st half
- Souths were missing their spine but their pack was nearly full strength & we matched them.
- Our inability to capitalise on attacking 20 possession was disappointing. We were far too right side dominant, which meant our better attacking players in Sua/Suli/Rava hardly saw the ball in the attacking 20. This is unacceptable, both halves need to improve in this area asap.
- We showed great tackling technique by hitting hard but also holding onto the tackle instead of bumping off like last year. I thought we dominated the ruck.
- We showed good leg speed in our attack, with a few quick play the balls allowing for some line breaks but unfortunately rarely did we have any support. This is where Sloan needs to improve because when he's the support player he can be lethal.
- 8/10 first half imo. Heaps of positives & some clear areas to work on.

2nd half
- Shithouse lol. Clear drop off in quality & a lacklustre intensity from our depth players. This is disappointing as there's clear spots available in 1st grade so they should've shown more desperation & competitiveness like the Souths depth players but didn't do it. Very disappointing with their attitude, I expect Flanno to absolutely bake them in the review & rightly so.
- Marschke was good with his running game, he should get a top 17 spot if he can replicate it in the next trial & early rounds.
- I wasn't impressed by the likes of Fifita, Couchman, Egan, Tuipoluta, Tamale etc. They took it like it was a training run & rightly got exposed for their lack of intensity by souths who dominated them. I would be embarrassed if I was those players & wanting to make amends next trial.

Overall Observations
- There's a clear drop off in talent from our top 19ish players to the rest but disappointing to see a drop off in competitiveness too. I'm expecting Flanno to be very unhappy with those players.
- Sloan had some nice moments but overall a poor game imo. His errors, lack of positioning in attack & inconsistency in kick returns were disappointing. If he was in a good team then his weakness would be shielded & his strengths would be utilised further but we're not at that level yet, so his weakness are more exposed & strengths are under-utilised. IF Sloan wants to be our fullback or have a top 17 spot then he needs to run the ball back with speed, when he does this he can break the line & generates some power limiting the opposition in dominating the tackle. However he fails to do this consistently. This is an area of his game that needs immediate focus & I think it can only be done through reserve grade. Once he's built that habit into his game then we should bring him back into 1st grade either off the bench or on the wing.
- Lomax he wasn't bad but wasn't good either on the wing. Basically he's underutilised on the wing. Move him to fullback so we can play to his strengths & we get a more consistent performance from our fullback which is needed for our current team. Sloan is either rocks or diamonds & that doesn't help with our teams confidence.
- Bird looked good at centre but can he do it for 80mins? I think he can provide the same type of impact from the bench.
- GET MORE BALL TO SUA/SULI/RAVA. They should be our preferred side to attack in the attacking 20 because they are better strike weapons than eisenhuth/bird/lomax.

- Heaps of positives, heaps of negatives but clearly it's shown everyone where we need improvement.
- Flanno's first live game in a few years, it'll take him a bit of time too.

My starting 13 for next trial
1. Lomax
2. Rava
3. Suli
4. Bird
5. S.Finau
6. Flanno
7. Hunt
8. Lawrie
9. Liddle
10. F.Molo
11. Sua
12. Eisenhuth
13. JDB

 

[Victoire]

Agree with just about everything @Wolfgang90 but I disagree on Fifita. Thought he looked good and is a live chance of a spot in the best 17

 

[Rocket Rod]

Um, no. Note sure if you actually read the article. Doesn't sound like you did. So, go read the article and tell me something Flanno said about the game that isn't correct.

To help your feeble mind I'll copy and paste the gist of what was said.

“The first half, we’ll give a tick. The second half, we’ll give it a cross”.
“I thought that the first half was a really good competitive game - we had our team on and then in the second half, it just probably shows where we are with our young kids,” Flanagan said.
“They are not up to it just as yet and they just got run over in the second half. But when we had our best team on in the first half, I think it was a good hit out.

Haaaa to help my feeble mind v funny
It just goes to show how us supporters have become accustomed to mediocrity.
3/4 of your spine out is a second string side. We had the best team we can possibly field out there.
Am I missing something????
Sure it’s a trial so let’s give benefit of the doubt for now

 

[since77]

Haaaa to help my feeble mind v funny
It just goes to show how us supporters have become accustomed to mediocrity.
3/4 of your spine out is a second string side. We had the best team we can possibly field out there.
Am I missing something????
Sure it’s a trial so let’s give benefit of the doubt for now

Judging by your answer, yeah you're obviously missing a lot.
1. Wasn't the best team we could possibly field, same for Souths. Want to go back through our squad and see who we were missing who would normally play in the top 17?
2. What was mediocre? First half was 6 all. That was the only part of the match that counted. Most smart analysts would give the defense and effort of the side in the first half a tick. Both sides pulled their top squads off after that.
3. Once again, go back and tell me what Flanno said about the match that was incorrect. Seemed to me like he called it like he saw it.

 

[Rocket Rod]

Judging by your answer, yeah you're obviously missing a lot.
1. Wasn't the best team we could possibly field, same for Souths. Want to go back through our squad and see who we were missing who would normally play in the top 17?
2. What was mediocre? First half was 6 all. That was the only part of the match that counted. Most smart analysts would give the defense and effort of the side in the first half a tick. Both sides pulled their top squads off after that.
3. Once again, go back and tell me what Flanno said about the match that was incorrect. Seemed to me like he called it like he saw it.

Gee wiz mate no point getting all hot under the collar over a trial game.
No in the first half souffs didn’t have their best side on the park as they were missing 3/4 spine. Shall I spell it out Mitchell Walker Cook out. Probably one of the top 2 or 3 spines in the league. I’d love just to have one of them in our side let alone all 3

 

[Wolfgang90]

Gee wiz mate no point getting all hot under the collar over a trial game.
No in the first half souffs didn’t have their best side on the park as they were missing 3/4 spine. Shall I spell it out Mitchell Walker Cook out. Probably one of the top 2 or 3 spines in the league. I’d love just to have one of them in our side let alone all 3

They wouldn't have made much of an impact as we dominated possession & territory. They're excellent when they have field territory. I think shaquai mitchell was the only player missing from their pack. Our forwards clearly matched their forwards in the 1st half. I would also love any of their spine players, like most teams.

 

[Wolfgang90]

I'm really happy this board has not gone too negative & over the top unlike on facebook & twitter where fans have gone mental. Especially facebook, what a load of shit from those people.

 

[Saints Forever]

Reality is our forwards were missing Sele & Mariner.

The young forwards in the second half needed a couple of hard heads to drive them. JDB played part of the second half but we needed at least one other experienced forward to set the platform for the younger blokes.

Wholesale backline changes in the second half meant, no cohesion in attack or defence.

I am quite confident that the side will improve significantly on that effort going forward.

The Lomax to wing and Bird to centre will eventually fade away.

Sloan is the big question mark.

He may be better off playing on the wing with Lomax to fullback.

If Lomax can get a quick play the ball away, Sloan’s speed and elusiveness could pay dividends.

 

[BLM01]

Some thoughts:

1st half
- Souths were missing their spine but their pack was nearly full strength & we matched them.
- Our inability to capitalise on attacking 20 possession was disappointing. We were far too right side dominant, which meant our better attacking players in Sua/Suli/Rava hardly saw the ball in the attacking 20. This is unacceptable, both halves need to improve in this area asap.
- We showed great tackling technique by hitting hard but also holding onto the tackle instead of bumping off like last year. I thought we dominated the ruck.
- We showed good leg speed in our attack, with a few quick play the balls allowing for some line breaks but unfortunately rarely did we have any support. This is where Sloan needs to improve because when he's the support player he can be lethal.
- 8/10 first half imo. Heaps of positives & some clear areas to work on.

2nd half
- Shithouse lol. Clear drop off in quality & a lacklustre intensity from our depth players. This is disappointing as there's clear spots available in 1st grade so they should've shown more desperation & competitiveness like the Souths depth players but didn't do it. Very disappointing with their attitude, I expect Flanno to absolutely bake them in the review & rightly so.
- Marschke was good with his running game, he should get a top 17 spot if he can replicate it in the next trial & early rounds.
- I wasn't impressed by the likes of Fifita, Couchman, Egan, Tuipoluta, Tamale etc. They took it like it was a training run & rightly got exposed for their lack of intensity by souths who dominated them. I would be embarrassed if I was those players & wanting to make amends next trial.

Overall Observations
- There's a clear drop off in talent from our top 19ish players to the rest but disappointing to see a drop off in competitiveness too. I'm expecting Flanno to be very unhappy with those players.
- Sloan had some nice moments but overall a poor game imo. His errors, lack of positioning in attack & inconsistency in kick returns were disappointing. If he was in a good team then his weakness would be shielded & his strengths would be utilised further but we're not at that level yet, so his weakness are more exposed & strengths are under-utilised. IF Sloan wants to be our fullback or have a top 17 spot then he needs to run the ball back with speed, when he does this he can break the line & generates some power limiting the opposition in dominating the tackle. However he fails to do this consistently. This is an area of his game that needs immediate focus & I think it can only be done through reserve grade. Once he's built that habit into his game then we should bring him back into 1st grade either off the bench or on the wing.
- Lomax he wasn't bad but wasn't good either on the wing. Basically he's underutilised on the wing. Move him to fullback so we can play to his strengths & we get a more consistent performance from our fullback which is needed for our current team. Sloan is either rocks or diamonds & that doesn't help with our teams confidence.
- Bird looked good at centre but can he do it for 80mins? I think he can provide the same type of impact from the bench.
- GET MORE BALL TO SUA/SULI/RAVA. They should be our preferred side to attack in the attacking 20 because they are better strike weapons than eisenhuth/bird/lomax.

- Heaps of positives, heaps of negatives but clearly it's shown everyone where we need improvement.
- Flanno's first live game in a few years, it'll take him a bit of time too.

My starting 13 for next trial
1. Lomax
2. Rava
3. Suli
4. Bird
5. S.Finau
6. Flanno
7. Hunt
8. Lawrie
9. Liddle
10. F.Molo
11. Sua
12. Eisenhuth
13. JDB

Harsh on the young ones
Not used to the place or speed at that level
I don’t think they were complacent at any stage
Just not ready but some are close

 

[Phantom V]

I

Is it just me I thought Bird played pretty good and troubled the defense each time with the ball. Made the good clean break but had no one to pass to. Couple of errors Yes but one it was a clear strip and we should of challenged it.

I agree, he’s deceptively strong and defenders struggled to bring him down. I’d like to see Sloan pushing up and looking for offloads from the likes of Bird, Su’a and co.

 

[Phantom V]

OK I have only seen some highlights of the match. My stomach sunk watching South’s run away trys in second half.

I appreciated all the forum perspectives thus far.

. I never liked the Kyle signing. Looked good in his first year with Sharkes. Signed by Easts for a couple of seasons but pushed out? ( I think) and ended up at dogs In n out of favour. Now with us. I say he looks unremarkable; I hope not on big $$$.Apparently, did his best last night but I hope dad Shane doesnt hold him in firsts for the wrong reasons. The best teams have fast 5/8s ( eg Mam, Luau, Munster, Keary)
. Not sure if Tamale got a bit of a run? At least he has zip. Same with Finau; did he get a go or did the big winger from Manly stay on?

Hoping for the best

I’m prepared to give the young bloke time to grow into the role. He’s not the first 5/8 to be overshadowed by Hunt demanding the ball all the time. Ideally, Flanno snr addresses this otherwise we become very predictable if Hunt is involved in every play.

 

[Slippery Morris]

It was good to have the footy back and the first half was chalk and cheese to the 2nd half. This was definitely a game of 2 halves.

What I got out of this is depth in the spine for Saints is going to hurt. Marshke showed some promise. Saints halves I am hoping will improve as the need to big time. If not for Saints having his dad on board, Kyle will be at best playing in England. No NRL team wanted him lets face it so he has a lot to prove himself and on Saturday's effort it shows why he was not wanted. I thought Marshke stood out more than Kyle and maybe Kyle at 9 may be of some benefit but it is something the coach will be monitoring. I am pretty sure if he son is struggling in the halves he will move him to 9 as the coaches' job is on the line. Apparently that is the reason he was bought to the club which I find hard to believe because if that is the case then Bud would have stayed. Bud moving whilst Amone was going to be cut made it really easy for Kyle to get the halves spot. Liddle was great but Mulheisen really struggled. If Saints lose Liddle they are in trouble. Sloan will get better I hope as he is Saints only real threat in attack.

Looking at the trials, Saints spine is probably the worst one and if Saints are to land a big fish soon for 2025 and beyond, it has to be in one of those positions. Reading the posts prior to this game I expected more from the juniors who were playing against Souths juniors mostly and they seemed to struggle. They were ok but not great but I am sure they will get heaps better as the season progresses.

It is only a trial game in the end so I would not read to much into them. The only thing to look for is no injuries or suspensions and so far so good.

Also the ref made some really poor calls against Saints. The one on Couchman was bizzare as I saw a lot of that downtown (I think that is what they call it and he was penalised for) throughout the game and not get punished. And the head high on Molo I think it was early in the 1st half? How did she miss that. Hopefully the Dragons get their quota of bad calls in the trials and none when NRL starts.

 

[SnowDragon]

Hooker, such a critical position. When Liddle went off things fell apart. Ok, it coincided with a lot of changes, but mulhausen was a huge disappointment last night.

Masche on the other hand really shone, at a time when the team didn’t. Can he play 14 and replace Liddle? Or does he go into the halves and Flanno jnr. Jumps into hooker.

its only 1 trial game, but that’s the biggest issue for me.

then it’s the rest of the spine and birdy at center.

 

[kit66]

Some thoughts:




- Bird looked good at centre but can he do it for 80mins? I think he can provide the same type of impact from the bench.
- GET MORE BALL TO SUA/SULI/RAVA. They should be our preferred side to attack in the attacking 20 because they are better strike weapons than eisenhuth/bird/lomax.

Sorry for scrapping most of your post ( I agreed with most of it) but I only wanted to address the highlighted bit.
Both our left and right could be lethal in attack. We showed last Saturday, when we can create space on the right, Sloan can chime in to give us an overlap, just needs Hunt to recognize it when it happens. Good shape and good depth. Watch the Roosters, Storm, Sharkies. Same on the left, again Sloan can sweep around to that side or if Hunt and Kyle can get their act together they can create the overlap themselves - some short passes in the middle Liddle/Hunt/Kyle and quick ball out wide. I'd also like to see us keep the ball alive early in the sets and use our backline's size to make big metres especially down the left with Su'A, Suli, Rav. Quick play the balls and keep it alive and you'll have the opposition backpeddling and trying to stop our monster backs on the run. What we lack in speed we can make up for with size and power - no choice really.
I forgot to mention some of the big hits our boys put on in the CS, Suli hurt a couple of bunnies and JDB, Lawrie, Su'a and Frank the Tank pulled off some pearlers.
Can we please also - if we're going to play BMM, play him in the middle. He's a 118 kgs FFS and his stats show historically he defends much better in the middle than when he's out wide chasing halves and centres. Use him properly - he's a big prop, a 118kg battering ram and we're short on props.

 

[Auntie.Gerald]

I’d go back and watch Kyle again in the Souths game.

Bloody hell if anyone covered as much ground as he did and as many one percenters it would have only been Eisenhuth. Those two were remarkable in their pressure and non stop shaping our defensive line and defensive efforts.

I thought they set the standard for defensive pressure.

The first 20mins was working the right side of our attack with Hunt, Eisenthuth, Bird , Lomax and Sloan

Kyle was on the left and he suli and Sua kept making making sure along with Liddle that our attack kept shifting middle and right. They had plenty of angled runs from left edge back in field ready for our right side attack. They combined well to make good metres on the left.

Let’s be honest we were absolutely in the drivers seat first 12mins and then out of no where Bird made a dumb drop of the ball in a tackle then JDB jumps up around the head in a tackle. Two of our most experienced totally let Souths back in the game repeated sets.

Then two more straight sets with Rava knock on and Lomax failed intercept.

Despite that shit house 5mins of 4 Dragons mistakes……..we held strong under the posts in defence and then got back down field.

Simple game plan, everyone on the same page and I quite liked our variation of plays middle right considering it was going right no matter what.

The set play to Sloan middle of the field.

The set play to Fafita punching through the line ready for Hunt on his left or Eisenhuth on his right to offload almost came off but hit the ground and Sloan knocked on.

The Hunt taking on the south’s left side defence and we had two un marked outside. The next play Flano might have made his only mistake when he had a clash of heads with Souths player who went off for HIA?

The almost try by eisenhith getting the tap back from Lomax …… the reason that play was so smooth was Kyle setting up his runners with Sua but then chasing after Liddles break and Kyle taking over at dummy half to leave Hubt nice and wide right for a perfect kick.

Watch the next two sets and the chases that Kyle does when we create broken play to support his players. His next super quick play of the ball to earn us a penalty.

Kyle’s work rate was incredible.

Yes…….Some fairly clunky execution of which poor old Birdy was involved in 4 mistakes……arguably not all his but he contributed but it was all right side (not Fanos)

Second 20mins of the first half we tended to attack the middle and a little bit of left edge where Kyle and Sua and Suli made good years…..but maybe only one cut out to Rava over on the wing which he tends to get 3 or 4 opportunities per half generally in a game of footy.

Seemed very deliberate.

Watch the first 5mins of the 2nd qtr.

Watch Flano telling all his players on the left where he wants them……watch him trail Sua twice in a set almost receiving an offload and looking spritely.

.watch Flano take off in pursuit when we spread it right……..his anticipation of our right side break and darting 40m from our left to be in and around the marker was gut running……..then because of that amazing chase he is right there for the Eisenhuth and he chase into the goal and almost scores. Kyle is right next to the right goal post after another 30m run.

Amazing efforts that will lead to opportunities

 

[denis preston]

His old man wont like this, as d

Some thoughts:

1st half
- Souths were missing their spine but their pack was nearly full strength & we matched them.
- Our inability to capitalise on attacking 20 possession was disappointing. We were far too right side dominant, which meant our better attacking players in Sua/Suli/Rava hardly saw the ball in the attacking 20. This is unacceptable, both halves need to improve in this area asap.
- We showed great tackling technique by hitting hard but also holding onto the tackle instead of bumping off like last year. I thought we dominated the ruck.
- We showed good leg speed in our attack, with a few quick play the balls allowing for some line breaks but unfortunately rarely did we have any support. This is where Sloan needs to improve because when he's the support player he can be lethal.
- 8/10 first half imo. Heaps of positives & some clear areas to work on.

2nd half
- Shithouse lol. Clear drop off in quality & a lacklustre intensity from our depth players. This is disappointing as there's clear spots available in 1st grade so they should've shown more desperation & competitiveness like the Souths depth players but didn't do it. Very disappointing with their attitude, I expect Flanno to absolutely bake them in the review & rightly so.
- Marschke was good with his running game, he should get a top 17 spot if he can replicate it in the next trial & early rounds.
- I wasn't impressed by the likes of Fifita, Couchman, Egan, Tuipoluta, Tamale etc. They took it like it was a training run & rightly got exposed for their lack of intensity by souths who dominated them. I would be embarrassed if I was those players & wanting to make amends next trial.

Overall Observations
- There's a clear drop off in talent from our top 19ish players to the rest but disappointing to see a drop off in competitiveness too. I'm expecting Flanno to be very unhappy with those players.
- Sloan had some nice moments but overall a poor game imo. His errors, lack of positioning in attack & inconsistency in kick returns were disappointing. If he was in a good team then his weakness would be shielded & his strengths would be utilised further but we're not at that level yet, so his weakness are more exposed & strengths are under-utilised. IF Sloan wants to be our fullback or have a top 17 spot then he needs to run the ball back with speed, when he does this he can break the line & generates some power limiting the opposition in dominating the tackle. However he fails to do this consistently. This is an area of his game that needs immediate focus & I think it can only be done through reserve grade. Once he's built that habit into his game then we should bring him back into 1st grade either off the bench or on the wing.
- Lomax he wasn't bad but wasn't good either on the wing. Basically he's underutilised on the wing. Move him to fullback so we can play to his strengths & we get a more consistent performance from our fullback which is needed for our current team. Sloan is either rocks or diamonds & that doesn't help with our teams confidence.
- Bird looked good at centre but can he do it for 80mins? I think he can provide the same type of impact from the bench.
- GET MORE BALL TO SUA/SULI/RAVA. They should be our preferred side to attack in the attacking 20 because they are better strike weapons than eisenhuth/bird/lomax.

- Heaps of positives, heaps of negatives but clearly it's shown everyone where we need improvement.
- Flanno's first live game in a few years, it'll take him a bit of time too.

My starting 13 for next trial
1. Lomax
2. Rava
3. Suli
4. Bird
5. S.Finau
6. Flanno
7. Hunt
8. Lawrie
9. Liddle
10. F.Molo
11. Sua
12. Eisenhuth
13. JDB

Couchmans don’t appear to have put on any more beef in the off season , which they needed to do. Still very early days.

 

[kit66]

Harsh on the young ones
Not used to the place or speed at that level
I don’t think they were complacent at any stage
Just not ready but some are close

I thought all our young'ns got in and had a real dig. I think Burgess played a lot of the second half and as I mentioned before, a lot of the second string Bunnies out there were in their Grand Final winning KOE Cup side.
I don't think Flanno expected too much from the kids. He'd know already who the standouts are. I re-watched some of the 2nd half again and I'm wondering why everyone is picking Finau for round one, he was hardly sighted whereas Tamale was in everything, really solid defence and bent the line in attack - he could play 1st grade centre or wing tomorrow. The Feagai's meanwhile, over on the right side were terrible. Was Matt meant to be at fullback for a while - please no.