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Clubs in financial difficulties

Messages
16,739
You have to say that it can't be cheap to take a player from here over to the UK and pay wages that make it worthwhile for him and he's family plus his accomadation.
This puts a huge financial problem on some clubs.
I think the RFL needs to look at reducing the overseas quota to save clubs from financial suicide.
 

jason taylor

Bench
Messages
3,766
Time to solve the Huddersfield problem by relocating them to the Shay (as is planned anyway with the proposed Ken Davy purchase) and rebranding as Calderdale/West Yorkshire?
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
838
Time to solve the Huddersfield problem by relocating them to the Shay (as is planned anyway with the proposed Ken Davy purchase) and rebranding as Calderdale/West Yorkshire?

There’s been a bit of noise about this on social media. Nothing from anyone of any note or with any actual evidence that it could happen, it’s just people’s opinion.

I saw someone suggest that Halifax should start again as an amateur club and so should Huddersfield and then a Calderdale franchise plays in the pro ranks. I’m not sure it works, in all honesty. People are emotionally tied to Huddersfield or Halifax, they’re linked by birthplace, generations of support and location, I’m not sure that many would watch both the amateur side and then the Calderdale Giant Panthers when, in theory, the club you support still exists but just happens to play in the National Conference League and you may have to travel to a home game. Whilst it’s minor in terms of miles to the Australians on here, it’s a bit parochial and I think would be an issue. If anything, I think all clubs would suffer and it would just accelerate the shrinking nature of clubs in the UK.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
8,921
There’s been a bit of noise about this on social media. Nothing from anyone of any note or with any actual evidence that it could happen, it’s just people’s opinion.

I saw someone suggest that Halifax should start again as an amateur club and so should Huddersfield and then a Calderdale franchise plays in the pro ranks. I’m not sure it works, in all honesty. People are emotionally tied to Huddersfield or Halifax, they’re linked by birthplace, generations of support and location, I’m not sure that many would watch both the amateur side and then the Calderdale Giant Panthers when, in theory, the club you support still exists but just happens to play in the National Conference League and you may have to travel to a home game. Whilst it’s minor in terms of miles to the Australians on here, it’s a bit parochial and I think would be an issue. If anything, I think all clubs would suffer and it would just accelerate the shrinking nature of clubs in the UK.

Only alternative is for game to die if you listen to english fans..
 

jason taylor

Bench
Messages
3,766
There’s been a bit of noise about this on social media. Nothing from anyone of any note or with any actual evidence that it could happen, it’s just people’s opinion.

I saw someone suggest that Halifax should start again as an amateur club and so should Huddersfield and then a Calderdale franchise plays in the pro ranks. I’m not sure it works, in all honesty. People are emotionally tied to Huddersfield or Halifax, they’re linked by birthplace, generations of support and location, I’m not sure that many would watch both the amateur side and then the Calderdale Giant Panthers when, in theory, the club you support still exists but just happens to play in the National Conference League and you may have to travel to a home game. Whilst it’s minor in terms of miles to the Australians on here, it’s a bit parochial and I think would be an issue. If anything, I think all clubs would suffer and it would just accelerate the shrinking nature of clubs in the UK.
I don't disagree, but something has to change or as we have all acknowledged in various threads on here, these clubs will all just slowly die off from a mix of financial hardship and fan bases becoming smaller and smaller. Maybe it would just accelerate the decline, but that seems to be inevitable this point given the state of the Championship.

Ultimately all this speculation is pointless unless there's a real strategy at the RFL level to grow the game, to revive grassroots efforts (which some clubs like York are making headway in) and actually building sustainable supporter bases. I know amalgamation goes against the parochial nature of traditional English sports, but I think there's a degree to which that is already shifting in part with younger generations. I don't agree with some people on here who think expansion is an automatic silver bullet - I think we need to first look at the state of the clubs we have and what their continued role and purpose are.
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
838
Mergers just won’t work. You’ll have a poorly supported professional club and two poorly supported amateur clubs. The fanbase in the Championship from what I’ve witnessed watching London is that it’s an ageing fanbase. There isn’t really a viable mass of younger fans coming through. With the ageing, existing fanbase, they’re not going to suddenly start driving 5-20 miles to a different town to watch rugby league when they’ve gone upwards of 50 years with rugby league on their doorstep. It’s not a habit and one they would likely not develop or even want to develop. Will they bother swapping watching rugby league at ‘proper’ stadiums for standing around a fenced off pitch in a field in suburbs of Leeds and Bradford? Some will, some will probably just be lost to the game.

One of the club-led review recommendations was “Tier 2 should consider amending its season so that it has a period in the calendar where that
competition has all Rugby League eyes focused on it
”. That’s an interesting one. The RFL has overseen a takeover of the amateur game, by force, and since the amateur game moved to a summer calendar some 10-15 years ago, there has always been some who think we should go back to that and I wonder if the plan is to take the amateur game back to that and/or to move the Championship to a winter schedule.
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
838
Will a salary cap actually work? Central funding is as low as £10k for some clubs, that won’t even touch the sides on coach travel for away games. Then you’ve got players’ wages and insurances to pay. Many clubs rent football grounds (Doncaster, Rochdale, Oldham, Goole) or council owned stadiums (Sheffield, Salford, Hunslet) so matchday income is hugely restricted and there’s low visibility without a TV deal, which isn’t likely to appear.

They did a similar approach in lower league football in England, tying what clubs could spend to a percentage of the clubs income. It was exploited. Bournemouth, when they were a third tier team and had just been brought by the consortium that led them to the Premier League, exploited the rulings. Their owners basically bought sponsorship on the clubs shirt and shorts for an exorbitant amount, thus massively increasing the amount they could spend. They hoovered up some players from teams around them and those from a higher league and then went up and up. It’ll be open to manipulation and I’m sure clubs with chairmen with deeper pockets, who are willing to do so, will find such loopholes and will exploit it that way.

If a club are only allowed to pay £50,000 a year to build a squad, they still need to pull in enough fans to cover rent, insurance, away travel and other miscellaneous costs. I think many clubs will still be loss making and surviving on the edge of existence. This restricts the losses some can make somewhat but I don’t think this is the big fix some think it is.
 

jason taylor

Bench
Messages
3,766
Will a salary cap actually work? Central funding is as low as £10k for some clubs, that won’t even touch the sides on coach travel for away games. Then you’ve got players’ wages and insurances to pay. Many clubs rent football grounds (Doncaster, Rochdale, Oldham, Goole) or council owned stadiums (Sheffield, Salford, Hunslet) so matchday income is hugely restricted and there’s low visibility without a TV deal, which isn’t likely to appear.

They did a similar approach in lower league football in England, tying what clubs could spend to a percentage of the clubs income. It was exploited. Bournemouth, when they were a third tier team and had just been brought by the consortium that led them to the Premier League, exploited the rulings. Their owners basically bought sponsorship on the clubs shirt and shorts for an exorbitant amount, thus massively increasing the amount they could spend. They hoovered up some players from teams around them and those from a higher league and then went up and up. It’ll be open to manipulation and I’m sure clubs with chairmen with deeper pockets, who are willing to do so, will find such loopholes and will exploit it that way.

If a club are only allowed to pay £50,000 a year to build a squad, they still need to pull in enough fans to cover rent, insurance, away travel and other miscellaneous costs. I think many clubs will still be loss making and surviving on the edge of existence. This restricts the losses some can make somewhat but I don’t think this is the big fix some think it is.
I think a salary cap alongside confirmation that P&R isn't coming back, and that the IMG ranking system is remaining, would help to create a more financially stable second tier. I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of the 3 million in debt Featherstone racked up was due to their push towards Super League when there was still P&R.

Could actually result in less foreign players being picked up by Championship clubs. Which wouldn't be a bad outcome in the long term to grow and develop homegrown players. It would also help bridge the gap between the top and the bottom of Championship, which is inevitably going to be vast due to the existing gap between Championship and League 1 prior to the merger. Sure, having a cap won't mean all teams will spend it, and there'll still be a discrepancy, but I think it will be better for the long term.

Though I agree with you, it's not the magic bullet that will solve all problems. In many ways adopting the IMG system and sticking to it should remove the propensity for clubs to buy their way into Super League through hiring players. It reminds me of an early Grant Wechsel interview where he criticised the previous owner of the Broncos. Basically saying that while he kept the club afloat, he didn't really invest in it as a business, instead being interested more in acquiring players to improve on the field.
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
838
I think a salary cap alongside confirmation that P&R isn't coming back, and that the IMG ranking system is remaining, would help to create a more financially stable second tier. I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of the 3 million in debt Featherstone racked up was due to their push towards Super League when there was still P&R.

Could actually result in less foreign players being picked up by Championship clubs. Which wouldn't be a bad outcome in the long term to grow and develop homegrown players. It would also help bridge the gap between the top and the bottom of Championship, which is inevitably going to be vast due to the existing gap between Championship and League 1 prior to the merger. Sure, having a cap won't mean all teams will spend it, and there'll still be a discrepancy, but I think it will be better for the long term.

Though I agree with you, it's not the magic bullet that will solve all problems. In many ways adopting the IMG system and sticking to it should remove the propensity for clubs to buy their way into Super League through hiring players. It reminds me of an early Grant Wechsel interview where he criticised the previous owner of the Broncos. Basically saying that while he kept the club afloat, he didn't really invest in it as a business, instead being interested more in acquiring players to improve on the field.

I don’t think it will stop clubs attempting to buy their way to Super League. I don’t think IMG particularly does that either. If anything, I think teams are likely to really go for it if/when London get promoted.

The club led review has pointed towards them wanting a 16 team league. If we assume London are in, given the investment there and then their IMG score being pretty reasonable, then the 16th placed team is pretty open. The top rated Championship clubs from the last rankings were:

Salford - 12.65 - this will drop significantly, you’d think.

London - 11.65 - you’d expect this to rise based on attendances, social media engagement and then onfield performance this year.

Featherstone - 9.75 - this will go down, if they even get a score at all.

Barrow - 9.62 - who knows how this one will go?

Widnes - 9.36 - strong early attendance and they should be a top 5-6 side.

That’s the top 5 and everyone else are well behind London, so the race for 16th spot will be open. Given the onfield metrics under IMG equates to a quarter of your overall score and another quarter is made up by Fandom, that’s half your score and a big opportunity to jump up the ranks. The two go hand-in-hand, so I can see some clubs who will look to find loopholes in any rules around bringing in an income based salary cap to try and get that coveted spot. If the owner of, say, Whitehaven has a business and can put their business name on the front of the Whitehaven shirts for £2m per annum and the club is the open to use 60% of the turnover, immediately that’s £1.6m available to spend on players and if they can turn those players into a top Championship side, they’d win games and would, likely, see an increase in attendances as well and see a big IMG jump. That is unless we go down the route we ended up with where York and Toulouse got promoted, inviting applicants. It will need to be clearly defined what way the sport is going to go with sourcing the 16th club for Super League.

I think there will be fewer antipodeans but I don’t know if that is going to make a big difference at that level. Most clubs have a couple, but it’s not huge numbers, barring London of course. I think it’ll be a case of seeing gaps between clubs financially and it will reflect in the table, though I think this championship format will do that anyway.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,327
Will a salary cap actually work? Central funding is as low as £10k for some clubs, that won’t even touch the sides on coach travel for away games. Then you’ve got players’ wages and insurances to pay. Many clubs rent football grounds (Doncaster, Rochdale, Oldham, Goole) or council owned stadiums (Sheffield, Salford, Hunslet) so matchday income is hugely restricted and there’s low visibility without a TV deal, which isn’t likely to appear.

They did a similar approach in lower league football in England, tying what clubs could spend to a percentage of the clubs income. It was exploited. Bournemouth, when they were a third tier team and had just been brought by the consortium that led them to the Premier League, exploited the rulings. Their owners basically bought sponsorship on the clubs shirt and shorts for an exorbitant amount, thus massively increasing the amount they could spend. They hoovered up some players from teams around them and those from a higher league and then went up and up. It’ll be open to manipulation and I’m sure clubs with chairmen with deeper pockets, who are willing to do so, will find such loopholes and will exploit it that way.

If a club are only allowed to pay £50,000 a year to build a squad, they still need to pull in enough fans to cover rent, insurance, away travel and other miscellaneous costs. I think many clubs will still be loss making and surviving on the edge of existence. This restricts the losses some can make somewhat but I don’t think this is the big fix some think it is.
Depends what you think it’s trying to acheive? If it’s to stop clubs spending more than tney earn then yes it will. Who cares IF an owner sponsors a club and allows that club to spend more because they are earning more? The problem seems to be with clubs who earn X amount of revenue but spend Y.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,327
Reality is you can’t run a professional club on crowds of under 1000. I’d be on favour of a reworked img system for championship that put much greater emphasis on jnr development, and SL clubs paying a set fee for any jnr signed from a championship club.

we need a financially viable system under Superleague that works for local communities, gives kids a chance to develop locally in quality systems and that supports the health of SL.
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
838
The clubs don’t have proper academies outside of Super League and most are foundations and college linked courses. The amount of players coming through the lower leagues entirely is probably very small. Many will have been with a Super League academy at one point or another and may have stepped back to move forwards again, like Elliot Minchella, for example.

It’s entirely unsustainable, but the game as a whole is. An interesting thing is the York-Newcastle link-up, with the two having the same owners. It’s a bit similar to the Australian model, partnering with a junior club. I wonder if that is something to be explored.
 

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