Completion rate

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by Crush, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:32 PM.

  1. Crush

    Crush Bench

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    Mary seems to be one of those coaches that bangs on a lot about completion rates.
    I've heard him and a number of coaches talk about concentrating on completing sets.
    Last year the two teams with the worst completion rates in the competition were Sydney Roosters and Melbourne Storm.
    What does this mean?
    You have to play some footy to win a comp!
    I'd like to see more offloads and razzle dazzle footy, dont die wondering!
     
  2. muzby

    muzby Village Idiot Staff Member

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    Mary is a jerk who has NFI about what he is talking about..

    The guy has never even completed a coaching contract before having it extended...

    Seriously man, become a subject matter expert before preaching the gospel..
     
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  3. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

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    That’s because he’s an idiot with no tactical or strategic knowledge of the modern game. He thinks the philosophy that won him a comp in the local Illawarra league with translate to the NRL.
     
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  4. BLM01

    BLM01 Juniors

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    Dont worry Mary has em all fooled. Not one poor season (2016) or end of season fade outs (15,17 & 18) was directly attributable to bad coaching or player management..it seems. All stuff out of his control, bad luck and / or others fault which at each end of season review they will address and fix and all will be better the following year.
    Well the board think so..anyway... obviously.
    Who are we to argue with 5000 + posts on another Forum Topic

    Back on Topic track our attack is starting and was more direct against the Dogs and deeper set which is a positive.
    We still need to do a bit better or mix it up hitting it up out of own 20 to break the defense up or make more metres
     
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  5. blacksafake

    blacksafake Guest

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    Like the tigers in 05.
     
  6. Crush

    Crush Bench

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    Yeah he's an idiot, got that point.
    What do you think about the balance between playing conservative high completion footy vs throwing the ball around and lots of second phase?
    I personally think the conservative approach will beat most the shit teams because they tend to beat themselves but against the stronger teams there is no point playing conservatively.
    Might as well chance your arm against Roosters on ANZAC day.
    Offloads, 40/20s, chip and chase, long cutout passes. Sure you may get beaten but by just playing 5 hit ups and bomb to the fullback you aren't going to beat a team with that much potency in atttack.
    Horses for courses should be the approach.
     
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  7. The Damo

    The Damo Juniors

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    Yep, completion rates are way overrated as a win predictor. Statistically it’s things like run metres, line breaks, missed tackles etc that correlate higher with with winning games.
     
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  8. The Damo

    The Damo Juniors

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    Just looked at last year - the top 5 teams for completion rates were;
    Bulldogs
    Broncos
    Tigers
    Eels
    Warriors.

    Roosters were 13th
    Storm were 14th.
     
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  9. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

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    Yeah, the conservative, high-completion rate style is all about playing to not lose, rather than playing to win. It’s taxing on the players because it relies on high concentration and takes a mental toll. And of course, once coupled with a few injuries and physical fatigue, the whole thing falls apart (as shown in 2015, 2016 and 2017). You might make the finals but it’s very rare that you’ll win a premiership - which works perfect for our club, since that’s their bar for success.

    The thing with Melbourne and Roosters is that they aren’t just chancing their arm and throwing it around. They have set plays and structures that they employ depending on the game situation. They also know that it’s ok to make the odd mistake when employing their game plan because it doesn’t rely on completion alone.

    But you’re right - IF you pull of the high completion, conservative game plan the entire season to perfection, you might win most games against lower teams. But we won’t win the big one.
     
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  10. Walpole

    Walpole Juniors

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    I'd like to see a coach come up with his own game plan rather than the same thing as the other 15 teams.

    Teams all run basically the same plays, Melbourne, the Roosters and Souths just do it better than most - partly due to coaching, partly due to having better players.
     
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  11. Carlton

    Carlton Juniors

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    Its not as simple as comparing high completion rate to throwing the ball around. Its about taking the best risk/reward option depending on a number of things. These include where you are on the field, which team is suffering physically, what time in the game it is, what the score is, are you on the front foot or the back foot etc.

    The problem is these things haven't really been taken into account with the style of play Saints have used. This could be a result of our "game managers" not having the right instincts as well as the coaching.

    The good teams dont just throw the ball around, they play "conservatively" and build for an opportunity to chance their arm. This is where we have had an issue, its that ability to know when and how to attack. I am hoping this is what Norman will bring to the team, this is why Jonathon Thurston was so good.
     
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  12. The Damo

    The Damo Juniors

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    I’d also add that I don’t think our problem was conservatism as much as it was poorly structured attack.
    Last year we were;
    3rd in offloads
    4th in total receipts - so we were moving the ball a lot
    6th in line engagements.
    6th in decoy runs.

    One big thing that stands out is we were 9th in supports. So that even though being 1st in tackle breaks and 3rd in offloads we were only 12th in line break assists. Improving support play would be the best low hanging fruit to improve.
    But our problem is less conservatism and more poor attacking structures.
    The broncos last year had i think the highest number of one pass hit ups, and were really low for total receipts, offloads, line engagement, decoy runs,line break assists. But still scored 1 more try than us. Because when they got in position their attack knew how to break down defence.
     
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  13. BLM01

    BLM01 Juniors

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    As are all stats overrated. The only thing that matters is ability to get the 2 points..any way you can.
    Mary's % stats show him to be in the Top 8 of coaches in the NRL with his win / loss ratio.
    But we know he has not got the goods for a premiership coach or even consistent Top 4 coach as is too conservative and loyal

    Re other stats Just watch Annesley's weekly review of stats from last year to this year. He states them but does not explain what it actually means or tell us and whether that is good or not.
    Probably it says the NRL have been seen to make positive changes but nothing's changed,

    All referees have done has put the whistle in the pocket turning a blind eye to play the ball / ruck indiscretions this year is the only changed I noticed + they turn the time clock off, but the scrum packing clock wind down still goes on.
    It was supposed to make for quicker scrums...but it is just as slow as last year. Still have time for a cuo of tea and a chat whilst waiting.
     
  14. watatank

    watatank Coach

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    We don't need to force things, we just need to play a little smarter. If maybe we looked like we weren't just going to run one out into brick walls that would be nice. Or not choreographing convoluted plays, would also be nice.
     
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  15. This Year?

    This Year? First Grade

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    We really need a coach in our game who can counter negative tactics of Bellamy, Bennett and Robinson. Someone who has imagination and who makes watching footy fun again. Most teams nowdays have no real character, which is sometimes why I enjoy watching the Raiders because even though they have glaring deficiencies they are so fun to watch when they are on. They remind me of us in the 2000's.
     
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