Cowboys v Broncos

[The Pain Game]

It is derby time - well, a two weeks away. Be great to get off to a good start in what I see as a tough first few rounds (Penrith are a bogey team for us).

After Darwin, there has to be some selection head-aches, so what are people's thoughts? Getting our list down to 17 will be hard... Mason and Webb will have to be fit.... you'd think either Rovelli or Watts or Thompson will be dropped (prob can only go with two of them) and I am unsure if Will Tupou or Michael Bani played themselves into the team.

Only certainties would be Williams, Williams, Tonga, Thurston, Scott, Payne, Bolton, O'Donnell and maybe Rapira.

 

[The Pain Game]

Nick Kenny says Broncos need to harden up for Cowboys game

Steve Ricketts | February 28, 2010 11:00pm
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/sport/nrl/story/0,26746,26787166-5003409,00.html#latest-comments
HARD-HITTING prop Nick Kenny yesterday warned that the Broncos faced a Johnathan Thurston onslaught in Friday week's NRL round 1 blockbuster at Suncorp Stadium unless they lifted their "physicality" for the 80 minutes. Kenny said two tries scored from kicks by Queensland Cup club Redcliffe at Dolphin Oval on Saturday night were "too easy", hinting at trouble ahead from Thurston.
The Cowboys star was in great touch in North Queensland's 22-4 thrashing of the Gold Coast Titans in Darwin on Saturday following a man-of-the-match effort in the All Stars game.


Redcliffe hooker Mick Roberts was made to look like Thurston by lazy Broncos defence with the 30-year-old scoring a try himself and setting up two others with his boot.




Brisbane won 30-20 after racing to a 20-0 lead.
"Those tries were definitely too easy," Kenny said. "There wasn't enough pressure put on Mick when there should have been.
"Him and (fullback) Ryan Cullen sniff out any sort of opportunity when the defence is lacking and that is where they got us.
"There were a few lapses and that's something we will have to work on. For the majority of the game there was a lot of intensity and good talk, and a lot of physicality.
"But it wasn't there for the whole game. There were a couple of parts where it slackened off, and that's just not good enough.
"The intensity we're searching for, that we found a couple of times, we really need to maintain that for the whole game."
Coach Ivan Henjak said the Broncos were strong in the middle while Kenny, Sam Thaiday and Corey Parker were on the field and Ben Te'o also impressed, particularly in the second half.
Henjak said the starting pack of Kenny, Andrew McCullough, Thaiday, Te'o, Matt Gillett and Parker would be hard to shift, but Josh McGuire would come into the picture after missing the game through illness.
Kenny said new signing Gillett, who played much of the game with a knee injury, impressed his teammates.
"His running was really good and he has good footwork," Kenny said.
Skipper Darren Lockyer declared himself a certain starter against the Cowboys despite requiring 12 stitches for a nasty head wound, the result of an elbow from a teammate in a tackle.
But after just 45 minutes on the field in the pre-season, Lockyer's game will be fine-tuned by several intense, opposed sessions.
"I just can't get past the 20-minute mark lately," Lockyer said. "Fitness isn't an issue. It's just getting my combination with (halfback) Peter Wallace and timing in defence."
Wallace (knee) also retired early against Redcliffe in his only trial, but is expected to play on Friday week.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/sport/nrl/story/0,26746,26785774-5003409,00.html

 

[Talanexor]

I didn't see any of the trials, so I'm only going off what I saw last year, what people have said here and what I've read from match reports.

Bani scored a try against the Titans, but I think thats about it. If Geia is playing well, I think I'd prefer to see him given a chance on the wing first.

Rovelli can really only play 5/8. He made some very simple mistakes playing at hooker last season, and Watts adds more spark off the bench anyway. Ray Thompson was very impressive in all the trials apparently. So I'd like to see Thompson at 6, Watts in the 14 jersey and Rovelli to QLD Cup.

I'd like to hear how Will Tupou went too. Unless Ash Graham has done a mountain of work on his defence and positioning, I don't want to see him anywhere near first grade this year. Sadly, I think he'll still be picked for Round 1, because blooding too many youngsters at once could sink us.

As far as the forwards are concerned, I don't think either of the Ah Mau brothers have played themselves into the top 17 just yet and Kaufusi hasn't improved, so the forwards and bench will probably look like this:

8. Scott
9. Payne
10. Webb
11. Bolton
12. Southern
13. O'Donnell

14. Watts
15. Tamou
16. Rapira
17. Manuokafoa

Still very happy with the pack either way.

This is the backline I believe Neil Henry will go with, given last season and trial form.

1. Ty Williams
2. Geia
3. Graham
4. Tonga
5. John Williams
6. Thompson
7. Thurston

 

[Canard]

This is the backline I believe Neil Henry will go with, given last season and trial form.

1. Ty Williams
2. Geia
3. Graham
4. Tonga
5. John Williams
6. Thompson
7. Thurston

I think you mean the backline you would go with (which I have no complaints about, and would like to see)

However I think based on the last two trials and the teams listed, its likely to be 2. Bani and 6. Rovelli and the rest the same.

 

[StinkyPete]

I'm expecting Neil Henry to go with this line up based on pre-season media.

1. T Williams
2. M Bani
3. A Graham
4. W Tonga
5. J Williams
6. G Rovelli
7. J Thurston
8. M Scott
9. A Payne
10. A Kafusi
11. S Rapira
12. S Bolton
13 L O'Donnell

14. A Watts
15. S Southern
16. C Webb/ W Mason
17. M Manuokafoa/J Tamou

 

[Newcastle Cow]

I'm pretty confident we can beat the Broncos in round 1. If our forwards stand up and match the broncos forwards, and I think we have the 'cattle' (pun intended) to do so, then I think thats most of the battle won.

Of course you dont need to be a genius to work out that Israel will be the big danger. Id really like to see Tonga marking him and J Williams playing on that wing. Tonga could contain his running game and Williams is by far our best outside back in the air. If another of our outside backs is marking him/contesting high balls against him it could be a looong night......

 

[Talanexor]

I'm pretty confident we can beat the Broncos in round 1. If our forwards stand up and match the broncos forwards, and I think we have the 'cattle' (pun intended) to do so, then I think thats most of the battle won.

Of course you dont need to be a genius to work out that Israel will be the big danger. Id really like to see Tonga marking him and J Williams playing on that wing. Tonga could contain his running game and Williams is by far our best outside back in the air. If another of our outside backs is marking him/contesting high balls against him it could be a looong night......

Liiiiiiiike....Gash Graham?

John Williams scored 10 tries last year, behind only Bowen and Tonga - despite the fact that 75% of the time we went to the left side. Stick him outside Tonga or anyone else who can draw and pass and he'll have a blinder this year. And I think only ONE of those was from a cross-field kick. We should be using him in the air a lot more IMO.

Does anyone remember how the Broncos were touted as having the best backline in the NRL last season? They'd have close to the worst for this season's opener.

1. Hoffman (rubbish fullback, only got the gig because he looks like cutie)
2. Winterstein (Promising youngster, but still raw)
3. Michaels (the #1 try-conceder in the Broncos team)
4. Folau (slow, can't tackle, only good in the air)
5. Yow Yeh (promising youngster, still raw)
6. Lockyer (Legend of the game, but older, slower and more injury-prone)
7. Peter Wallace (failed NSW rep, only plays well alongside Lockyer)

I'd seriously give that backline a 5/10, which is close to our 4/10 backline.

 

[macnaz]

Im wondering why the club bought Gallant? If he isnt the cowboys best fullback after Bowen ill give the game away. I feel sorry for the guy, what does he have to do to be given a spot at a club.

 

[Shorty]

How about prove his worth and play a few games for the pride.
Sheesh.

 

[Big Pete]

:lol: Tal.

You're quite a delusional supporter aren't you?

 

[StinkyPete]

yow yeh is injured Tal.

 

[Shorty]

:lol: Tal.

You're quite a delusional supporter aren't you?

:lol:
I didn't see that.
Personally, I think Hoffman is the spitting image of Hodges but anyway...

 

[Big Pete]

Agreed Shorty.

Josh Hoffman - Didn't have an offseason last year and was thrust into action after little time in the QLD Cup. Before the injury was a promising fullback with the safety of Hunt but the running style of Hodges. Might not even be fullback in any case.

Antonio Winterstein - Good finisher who got better as the year went on. Would rate him above Williams.

Steve Michaels - Suffered a hellacious injury in 2008 that generally takes a year or so to recover. School is out on him.

Israel Folau - Isn't slow, is statistically a better defender than Tonga and has the world at his feet.

Jharal Yow Yeh - Isn't even playing.

Denan Kemp - Is playing and again could be anything given Lockyer is there and their combination.

Darren Lockyer - I agree.

Peter Wallace - Disagree. His best performance last season wasn't even for the Broncos.

 

[Charlie124]

Liiiiiiiike....Gash Graham?

John Williams scored 10 tries last year, behind only Bowen and Tonga - despite the fact that 75% of the time we went to the left side. Stick him outside Tonga or anyone else who can draw and pass and he'll have a blinder this year. And I think only ONE of those was from a cross-field kick. We should be using him in the air a lot more IMO.

Does anyone remember how the Broncos were touted as having the best backline in the NRL last season? They'd have close to the worst for this season's opener.

1. Hoffman (rubbish fullback, only got the gig because he looks like cutie)
2. Winterstein (Promising youngster, but still raw)
3. Michaels (the #1 try-conceder in the Broncos team)
4. Folau (slow, can't tackle, only good in the air)
5. Yow Yeh (promising youngster, still raw)
6. Lockyer (Legend of the game, but older, slower and more injury-prone)
7. Peter Wallace (failed NSW rep, only plays well alongside Lockyer)

I'd seriously give that backline a 5/10, which is close to our 4/10 backline.

LOL, you cant be serious.

I dont know a lot about Hoffman but from what ive seen, one thing he isnt is rubbish. he's young and inexperienced but that doesnt mean sh*t.
Winterstein is a great finisher, he might be raw but theres nothing wrong with that, certainly doesnt detract from his game.
Michaels, yeah fair enough, he's average but was coming back from a pretty bad injury.
Folau, give me a break, the guy is all class and will cause most teams the same huge problems he always has.
Yow Yeh is similar to Winterstein, only better. But he isnt even playing so....
Lockyer might be getting old but his experience and influence over his team mates is gold to them.
Wallace failed in Origin because his forward pack were a pack of twigs who couldnt match it with ours, he doesnt need to stand out or take control, all he needs to do is feed the ball to Lockyer and do his job.

 

[Talanexor]

Fine, go ahead with all your facts and reality.

I like being ridiculously overconfident and I'm sticking with it. So there.

Pete (or anyone for that matter) have you got any clips of Hoffman in action? I saw Yow Yeh get the best of Thurston last year, and Winterstein had a pretty impressive season also, but Hoffman looked very ordinary from what I've seen of him. Happy to be proven wrong though.

 

[Big Pete]

His debut against the Dragons in 08 gives you a basic look into what he's capable of.

Being overconfident and ignorant are two seperate things.

 

[Talanexor]

Well, work out what you're criticising me of in that case. I don't claim to be an expert on anything, let alone Broncos players. But this is the Cowboys forum after all.

I'm going off what I've seen, and what I've read, including in the Broncos forums. Most Broncos fans actually seemed to favour Hodges (until he got injured) or Kemp at fullback, or even Gerard Beale. Hoffman got a few mentions, but no more than the other guys.

Yow Yeh and Winterstein are good, but inexperienced. And I said as much.

Kemp was brilliant in 08, but his stint at the Warriors shows how much he relies on quality halves to create space for him. He's not a superstar who can create something from nothing.

Folau is a great winger, but I don't rate him as a centre. And I wouldn't consider him one of the speed men of the NRL either.

And Michaels....well, there is about as much love for Michaels from Broncos fans on LU as there is for Ash Graham from Cowboys fans.

So even if you take my assessment with a grain of salt, the two points I was trying to make still stand.

1. With Lockyer a year older, Hunt gone and Hodges injured, the Broncos backline on paper looks like a shadow of its 09 self.

2. The difference between the two backlines is not as great as it will be at the END of 2009, when Hodges will be back, Folau will have settled into centre or moved back to the more familiar wing, the youngsters will be more experienced and Tim Smith may be playing in the halves.

 

[Big Pete]

Well, work out what you're criticising me of in that case.

I already have. You're ignorant.

I don't claim to be an expert on anything

Good. Nobody on LU is really.

let alone Broncos players. But this is the Cowboys forum after all.

Yes. I've noticed your opinions of the Broncos hasn't stopped you from posting within that particular board either.

I'm going off what I've seen, and what I've read, including in the Broncos forums. Most Broncos fans actually seemed to favour Hodges (until he got injured) or Kemp at fullback, or even Gerard Beale. Hoffman got a few mentions, but no more than the other guys.

Yet you felt certain that he was a rubbish fullback and that the only reason he got the spot was because he looked like Hunt?

I hate to say it, but the majority of members on the Broncos boards are ignorant. They were judging Hoffman on a season where he had little to no off-season and didn't return until mid-way through the season where he was thrown in and expected to perform straight away. He showed some good signs but obviously there are some flaws he needs to work on.

Given he's young, I'm sure he can only improve.

Kemp was brilliant in 08, but his stint at the Warriors shows how much he relies on quality halves to create space for him. He's not a superstar who can create something from nothing.

Kemp got fat in 2009.

He's back to full fitness and should be raring to go.

Also, aren't Lockyer and Wallace among the best halves in the game?

Folau is a great winger, but I don't rate him as a centre. And I wouldn't consider him one of the speed men of the NRL either.

Fair enough. He isn't slow or as bad as you made him sound either. Most of those criticisms were mere generalisations invented by others.

And Michaels....well, there is about as much love for Michaels from Broncos fans on LU as there is for Ash Graham from Cowboys fans.

They loved him before 2009. Unfortunately they expected him to be the exact same player he was from the opening day despite fielding one of the worst injuries a player can suffer in the game. Usually it takes somewhere between 18-24 months before the player can find any form.

1. With Lockyer a year older, Hunt gone and Hodges injured, the Broncos backline on paper looks like a shadow of its 09 self.

Yes.

2. The difference between the two backlines is not as great as it will be at the END of 2009, when Hodges will be back, Folau will have settled into centre or moved back to the more familiar wing, the youngsters will be more experienced and Tim Smith may be playing in the halves.

Yes, although Smith will only get a look in with injuries.

You should've just stuck with those two points.

 

[StinkyPete]

The Side we will see:

1. Ty Williams
2. John Williams
3. Ash Graham/Will Tupou
4.Willie Tonga
5. Michael Bani
6. Grant Rovelli
7. Jonathan Thurston
8. Matthew Scott
9. Aaron Payne
10. Antonio Kafusi
11. Steve Southern
12. Scott Bolton
13. Luke O'Donnell

14. Anthony Watts/James Tamou
15. Steve Rapria/Willie Mason
16. Carl Webb
17. Manese Manukafoa

The side I want to see:

1. Shannon Gallant
2. Michael Bani/Obe Geia
3. Will Tupou
4. Willie Tonga
5. John Williams
6. Anthony Watts
7. Jonathon Thurston
8. Matthew Scott
9. Aaron Payne
10. Carl Webb
11. Steve Rapira
12. Scott Bolton
13. Luke O'Donnell

14. James Tamou/Willie Mason
15. Steve Southern
16. Manese Manukafoa
17. Antonio Kafusi

 

[Talanexor]

The Side we will see:

The side I want to see:

1. Shannon Gallant
2. Michael Bani/Obe Geia
3. Will Tupou
4. Willie Tonga
5. John Williams
6. Anthony Watts
7. Jonathon Thurston
8. Matthew Scott
9. Aaron Payne
10. Carl Webb
11. Steve Rapira
12. Scott Bolton
13. Luke O'Donnell

14. James Tamou/Willie Mason
15. Steve Southern
16. Manese Manukafoa
17. Antonio Kafusi

No space for Ray Thompson in your team StinkyPete? Every match report mentions him as being impressive, certainly the most impressive of the youngsters. And with Johnstone training the boys, we should have plenty of minutes in them. We need a utility on the bench IMO rather than another prop.

Geia and Tupou barely got a mention in the media. Not saying they played badly, just that Ray Thompson got a lot more of the limelight.

I'd probably go with something similar to your team, except maybe have O'Donnell at centre, as I haven't heard much about Tupou and don't know if Graham has improved. Plus we have too many good backrowers already and only one decent centre.

I'd like to see Watts given a go in the halves too - it's just a question of timing and whether we'd sacrifice some of his impact as a bench hooker in that case.

Maybe start Watts at five-eighth, take him off after 30 mins, then bring him on for the final 20 to replace Payne at hooker. That way we ease Thompson into first grade, while still mixing up our attack and we can still use Watts out of dummy half against tired forwards.

OPTIONAL - throw Ty Williams in there anywhere from 1-5. He set up two tries in the trial against the Titans (one from a kick) and is reportedly not far off his pre-injury speed. If he gets back to that kind of pace, he'll actually be a good player this season.