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Damned if you do and damned if you don’t

Messages
2,857
After another woeful performance from the side I had hoped that Hook would wield the axe.

The problem is the juniors aren’t physically and mentally ready.

Matt Dufty is as we all know rocks and diamonds. Yesterday was probably his worst performance for the club after playing very well the week before.

If Hook drops him who will replace Dufty?

Ramsey, Sloan or Lomax.

If Hook thought Ramsey was ready he would have played him this week at fullback. The fact that Sloan is in the 21 is a bad sign for Ramsey.

Norman has had his best season so far for the club. But he isn’t the gun 6 we need.

If Sullivan were fit I think Hook would have selected him. He doesn’t think Amone is ready but Hook acknowledges he is a talent and doesn’t want to burn him by throwing him into the key role of 6 yet.

We have had a number of players either suspended or out with head knocks.

Fully fit a pack made up of:

Vaughan
Macca
Macguire
Sims
Bird
JDB

Faamasuli
Alvaro
Kerr
Ford

should hold its own. Yet they have been lifeless for most of the past 9 weeks. Gone is the enthusiasm. The forwards are not buying in. Why, I don’t know.

I would play Matt Fegai and Rava as our wingers.

Lomax and Max Fegai as the centres.

Williame and Beale are good back ups but we need to find out whether these juniors will ultimately make top first grade players.

It’s a fine balance. Do we try to win more games or blood the juniors.

I would blood the juniors. Those that show the dedication, desire and talent will make it. The others will fail.

Better to play the kids who will give it everything than the more “experienced” players who simply don’t really care whether they win or lose.

Hell I would rather see the Jersey Flegg side turn up!!!
 

This Year?

Coach
Messages
16,620
How do we know if these kids are ready or not? The Bulldogs, Tigers and Broncos games would have been perfect opportunities to blood them, but instead we mostly go with our best 17 available. I understand its a big step to NRL, but surely easing someone in for 20-30mins a game to assess how they go isn't that hard.
Why we persist with plodder journeymen on the bench/reserves who seem to get lots of game time is beyond me.
 

thebigredv

Bench
Messages
3,370
How do we know if these kids are ready or not? The Bulldogs, Tigers and Broncos games would have been perfect opportunities to blood them, but instead we mostly go with our best 17 available. I understand its a big step to NRL, but surely easing someone in for 20-30mins a game to assess how they go isn't that hard.
Why we persist with plodder journeymen on the bench/reserves who seem to get lots of game time is beyond me.

I have to say from where I sit it appears Hook is just as scared to bite the bullet as the previous coach. He refers very vaguely to this 'path' that club is heading which just leaves us with more questions than answers, especially when he picks the same team. I thought he'd make the big calls but is just as matesy as the last bloke, only now he has brought old broncos into the fold. We've been screaming it for seasons, start future planning now rather then completely waste another year. Stop hedging your bets and feeding us half-hearted performances from the same couldn't -care-less- hassbeen players.
 
Last edited:

Blood Shot Eyes

First Grade
Messages
5,246
In a nutshell our roster as it stands looks very ordinary....Beale, McGuire, Alvaro, Burns Clune, Kerr (who for mine has been very disappointing) Ellis, McCullough,Lawrie and throw in Dufty & Norman (both whom are going)and JDB thats been out of the game for two and half years....except for Jack theres no one in that line up that excites me for our future ....we either blood more of our own now or look elsewhere moving forward
 

thebigredv

Bench
Messages
3,370
I mean what do you do when 80% of the NRL talent is distributed through 3 or 4 clubs with outstanding systems/coaches (and their funders) while the other 12 clubs have to feast like vultures on any scraps that drop from there??

I do like the shedding of Norman and can accept Dufty. I like the acquisition of Molo but we need some massive signings AS WELL as the developing of emerging juniors. I really want to believe Hook is capable of this. What cards is he holding up his sleeves. It won't be long before we find out if we got the coach and recruiter we needed at this place.
 

Dragon David

Juniors
Messages
2,319
In a nutshell our roster as it stands looks very ordinary....Beale, McGuire, Alvaro, Burns Clune, Kerr (who for mine has been very disappointing) Ellis, McCullough,Lawrie and throw in Dufty & Norman (both whom are going)and JDB thats been out of the game for two and half years....except for Jack theres no one in that line up that excites me for our future ....we either blood more of our own now or look elsewhere moving forward
A couple of those players you have named BSE wouldn't make several other clubs' reserve grade team and we have/had them playing in first grade.

When you see the names of our players overall you definitely see guys who do not threaten week in and out and that is exactly how the other clubs view us, non-threatening.

I cannot remember when we had a squad of forwards who other clubs feared?

Hook has now got to make very thought provoking decisions as to who should be let go of those who will be off contract at years end and he needs to do this now to determine how much moolah comes back into the cap and then can determine who he should chase hard for.

I think we have too many rejected players and journeymen in our squad and we have continued with this situation for far too long. Now is the time for hardline action - Now!
 

kit66

Juniors
Messages
2,206
It's probably a massive understatement but the Dogs game was a real low point in Dragons history for mine. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse the boys dish up that performance. After 9 years of low points that was scary bad and it's hard to see them getting any better. Yeah our recruitment sucks but it's more than that , we have a deeply ingrained losing culture, a culture that not only accepts defeat but makes excuses for those performances and even dishes up pats on the back and " we did some good things out there " kind of comments from the coaches week in week out.
When what the team needs is someone like Bellamy screaming in their face demanding excellence and accepting nothing less we have spineless apologists telling us the future looks bright and maintaining a less than adequate roster.
I just saw the team list for the Canberra game and that just sums up it all up for me. It's the same line up that got flogged by a wooden spoon rabble ( he may change the line up later in the week but honestly having the hide to even publish that list is an insult to the fans and to the jersey and shows how unwilling they are to make changes and hold players to account ). Half that team are reserve grade quality, guys you'd only use in a pinch but there they are getting another chance to let us down. It's really an appalling situation and I'm fkn over it.
This isn't the team I followed as a youngster, not even a shadow of it and I need to stop pretending. It seems since shortly after the merger no-one there gives a f*ck about anything other than getting paid each week, it's now just a business, a very poorly run business as they can't even get that right and there's no passion and no respect for what that jersey and logo really stand for. If we miss the 8 this year I'm done. I live in Brisbane and will happily follow the 2nd Bris team if they're successful, might as well.

One more thing, how the F*ck do you let news of Norman's sacking break half way through a freaking game ?
 

Dragon David

Juniors
Messages
2,319
It's probably a massive understatement but the Dogs game was a real low point in Dragons history for mine. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse the boys dish up that performance. After 9 years of low points that was scary bad and it's hard to see them getting any better. Yeah our recruitment sucks but it's more than that , we have a deeply ingrained losing culture, a culture that not only accepts defeat but makes excuses for those performances and even dishes up pats on the back and " we did some good things out there " kind of comments from the coaches week in week out.
When what the team needs is someone like Bellamy screaming in their face demanding excellence and accepting nothing less we have spineless apologists telling us the future looks bright and maintaining a less than adequate roster.
I just saw the team list for the Canberra game and that just sums up it all up for me. It's the same line up that got flogged by a wooden spoon rabble ( he may change the line up later in the week but honestly having the hide to even publish that list is an insult to the fans and to the jersey and shows how unwilling they are to make changes and hold players to account ). Half that team are reserve grade quality, guys you'd only use in a pinch but there they are getting another chance to let us down. It's really an appalling situation and I'm fkn over it.
This isn't the team I followed as a youngster, not even a shadow of it and I need to stop pretending. It seems since shortly after the merger no-one there gives a f*ck about anything other than getting paid each week, it's now just a business, a very poorly run business as they can't even get that right and there's no passion and no respect for what that jersey and logo really stand for. If we miss the 8 this year I'm done. I live in Brisbane and will happily follow the 2nd Bris team if they're successful, might as well.

One more thing, how the F*ck do you let news of Norman's sacking break half way through a freaking game ?
Perfectly said kit66. My wife says that Dragons followers are losers - just goes to show how ingrained I am and for some 30 years she has listened to me whinge and whinge and I am whinging now. The best year of course for us this century was in 2010 and if not for the likes of Bennett coaching our club to the premiership, we would have been losers for quite a long time.

Our dreadful seasons keep hanging in and that is really affecting our culture and attitude. I can only say that for so many years our coaching has been poor, the administration poor even though our roster in general hasn't been too bad, it's just not good enough to kill it year in and year out.

My daughter-in-law said that I should follow another team just to have that winning feeling again just to stop the whinging and stress of us losing more than winning. It would go against my grain because I deadset hate the other teams so til death do us part, the Dragons will do me and I can continue to whinge, but quietly at home.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,506
Re the kids coming up to 1st grade

We need to remember they all lost an entire season last year and many have suffered mid to severe injuries early this season so it is not so easy to just throw them into the top grade especially when we are talking FB, halves and wingers that are going to peppered with bombs and smashed bring it out

If our roster had been in better shape when Hook arrived then I believe things would be very different but the truth is the roster was flawed, the juniors uncoached and unprepared, the senior players busted from years of playing the “power game” and of course morale and culture almost non existent.

The constant and nagging desire for success bred out of years of despair once again is the catalyst for criticism of our coach but in reality what has he inherited that warrants the criticism’s being levelled.

Injuries to key players such as Mac Innes especially in positions where we have little depth.

Changes to rules and harsh interpretations and suspensions dished out to us as per usual.

Large amount of $$$ tied up in gross under performers some of who have exercised options that should never have been agreed to,

The club being such a basket case that any decent player would avoid us unless of course we pay massive overs and even then they will still probably ignore us.

FFS someone tell me what part of this is of Hook’s own making?
 

Illusion

Juniors
Messages
574
Start blooding the young blokes , don't waste time ..... Other clubs are not scared to give them ago ..... For me age doesn't matter if they are good enough then play them , give them time to adjust , let them make mistakes , we are not wining anything soon .....
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
6,932
It's probably a massive understatement but the Dogs game was a real low point in Dragons history for mine. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse the boys dish up that performance. After 9 years of low points that was scary bad and it's hard to see them getting any better. Yeah our recruitment sucks but it's more than that , we have a deeply ingrained losing culture, a culture that not only accepts defeat but makes excuses for those performances and even dishes up pats on the back and " we did some good things out there " kind of comments from the coaches week in week out.
When what the team needs is someone like Bellamy screaming in their face demanding excellence and accepting nothing less we have spineless apologists telling us the future looks bright and maintaining a less than adequate roster.
I just saw the team list for the Canberra game and that just sums up it all up for me. It's the same line up that got flogged by a wooden spoon rabble ( he may change the line up later in the week but honestly having the hide to even publish that list is an insult to the fans and to the jersey and shows how unwilling they are to make changes and hold players to account ). Half that team are reserve grade quality, guys you'd only use in a pinch but there they are getting another chance to let us down. It's really an appalling situation and I'm fkn over it.
This isn't the team I followed as a youngster, not even a shadow of it and I need to stop pretending. It seems since shortly after the merger no-one there gives a f*ck about anything other than getting paid each week, it's now just a business, a very poorly run business as they can't even get that right and there's no passion and no respect for what that jersey and logo really stand for. If we miss the 8 this year I'm done. I live in Brisbane and will happily follow the 2nd Bris team if they're successful, might as well.

One more thing, how the F*ck do you let news of Norman's sacking break half way through a freaking game ?

Unfortunately Kit, its the team list we had to have. Atm we have 28 registered players, of those 28:
McInnes, Max F & Sullivan are injured. So that brings us down to 26 available.
Fuimaono and Maguire are suspended. That leaves 24.
Of those 24 we have Mat F, Brittain, JP Burns and Ellis playing reserve grade, and so they should be. So that makes 19. However we are playing Beale, who is supposedly on t&t contract and included both Amone and Sloan in the 21 who are supposedly on DS contracts.
So add 3 back = 22 available ( I've missed someone somewhere)
So, all Hook has done is selected the same 17 from Mondays game plus added a couple of reserves, given it was 24hrs after the Dogs game, its about all he could fo without review time, given the horrid display he'd want more time than that. Expect some changes come game day though.

100% agree with your last paragraph, pretty poor form by 'someone'.
 

blacksafake

Guest
Messages
5,881
It's probably a massive understatement but the Dogs game was a real low point in Dragons history for mine. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse the boys dish up that performance. After 9 years of low points that was scary bad and it's hard to see them getting any better. Yeah our recruitment sucks but it's more than that , we have a deeply ingrained losing culture, a culture that not only accepts defeat but makes excuses for those performances and even dishes up pats on the back and " we did some good things out there " kind of comments from the coaches week in week out.
When what the team needs is someone like Bellamy screaming in their face demanding excellence and accepting nothing less we have spineless apologists telling us the future looks bright and maintaining a less than adequate roster.
I just saw the team list for the Canberra game and that just sums up it all up for me. It's the same line up that got flogged by a wooden spoon rabble ( he may change the line up later in the week but honestly having the hide to even publish that list is an insult to the fans and to the jersey and shows how unwilling they are to make changes and hold players to account ). Half that team are reserve grade quality, guys you'd only use in a pinch but there they are getting another chance to let us down. It's really an appalling situation and I'm fkn over it.
This isn't the team I followed as a youngster, not even a shadow of it and I need to stop pretending. It seems since shortly after the merger no-one there gives a f*ck about anything other than getting paid each week, it's now just a business, a very poorly run business as they can't even get that right and there's no passion and no respect for what that jersey and logo really stand for. If we miss the 8 this year I'm done. I live in Brisbane and will happily follow the 2nd Bris team if they're successful, might as well.

One more thing, how the F*ck do you let news of Norman's sacking break half way through a freaking game ?
Agree with your last paragraph.
We have a habit of doing this, who can ever forget the announcement of a certain coach being extended during an Anzac Day game.
 

Coffs dragon

Bench
Messages
3,585
For me I believe our teams problems are deep and revolve around poor culture & leadership.
Bennett was blessed to have fine young men as a senior leadership group. All local juniors as in Hornby, Young, Creagh, Cooper etc. He often praised them as outstanding leaders & quality men.
The last 5-6 years we have had captains imported in from other clubs like Widdop, McInnes & Hunt.
What sort of friggin example does it set, when one walks out mid contract to play in the UK & then the next Captain is allowed to depart the club after twice being player of the year. That there sets the standard of being a Shit show!
 

JubileeJeffro

Juniors
Messages
84
Depth is the problem.
McCullogh had to come in as McCinnes is out for the season, and Brittan is going down the path of Boyd Cordner
We have had to stick with Norman as Sullivan has been injured pretty much all year. Amone getting first grade experience but long term is he a 6 or 13
Due to suspensions and Burns poor form we have had to move Bird to back row
No Lomax and Feagai injuries means we have had to go to Beale and Williame due to Bird in backrow
McGuire and Fui out has exposed Ford as not up to first grade either
Dufty doesnt have the desired defense and Ramsey doesn't create attack yet for Number 1.
Our best with what we have and a view to 2022 i think is;
Ramsey
Feagai
Amone or Bird
Lomax
Rava
Bird or Amone
Hunt
Vaughan
McCullogh
McGuire
Sims
Fui
JDB
Bench
Lawrie
Kerr
Dufty
Poasa
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,506
Start blooding the young blokes , don't waste time ..... Other clubs are not scared to give them ago ..... For me age doesn't matter if they are good enough then play them , give them time to adjust , let them make mistakes , we are not wining anything soon .....
Which young blokes in what position?

All well and good to say blood them but who is actually available?

Most clubs blood juniors along side well performed and well established (already at the club) senior players unfortunately we don't have that luxury.
 

Como Connection

First Grade
Messages
5,035
What has Lawrie done wrong.
CC
After another woeful performance from the side I had hoped that Hook would wield the axe.

The problem is the juniors aren’t physically and mentally ready.

Matt Dufty is as we all know rocks and diamonds. Yesterday was probably his worst performance for the club after playing very well the week before.

If Hook drops him who will replace Dufty?

Ramsey, Sloan or Lomax.

If Hook thought Ramsey was ready he would have played him this week at fullback. The fact that Sloan is in the 21 is a bad sign for Ramsey.

Norman has had his best season so far for the club. But he isn’t the gun 6 we need.

If Sullivan were fit I think Hook would have selected him. He doesn’t think Amone is ready but Hook acknowledges he is a talent and doesn’t want to burn him by throwing him into the key role of 6 yet.

We have had a number of players either suspended or out with head knocks.

Fully fit a pack made up of:

Vaughan
Macca
Macguire
Sims
Bird
JDB

Faamasuli
Alvaro
Kerr
Ford

should hold its own. Yet they have been lifeless for most of the past 9 weeks. Gone is the enthusiasm. The forwards are not buying in. Why, I don’t know.

I would play Matt Fegai and Rava as our wingers.

Lomax and Max Fegai as the centres.

Williame and Beale are good back ups but we need to find out whether these juniors will ultimately make top first grade players.

It’s a fine balance. Do we try to win more games or blood the juniors.

I would blood the juniors. Those that show the dedication, desire and talent will make it. The others will fail.

Better to play the kids who will give it everything than the more “experienced” players who simply don’t really care whether they win or lose.

Hell I would rather see the Jersey Flegg side turn up!!!
 

Dragon David

Juniors
Messages
2,319
Depth is the problem.
McCullogh had to come in as McCinnes is out for the season, and Brittan is going down the path of Boyd Cordner
We have had to stick with Norman as Sullivan has been injured pretty much all year. Amone getting first grade experience but long term is he a 6 or 13
Due to suspensions and Burns poor form we have had to move Bird to back row
No Lomax and Feagai injuries means we have had to go to Beale and Williame due to Bird in backrow
McGuire and Fui out has exposed Ford as not up to first grade either
Dufty doesnt have the desired defense and Ramsey doesn't create attack yet for Number 1.
Our best with what we have and a view to 2022 i think is;
Ramsey
Feagai
Amone or Bird
Lomax
Rava
Bird or Amone
Hunt
Vaughan
McCullogh
McGuire
Sims
Fui
JDB
Bench
Lawrie
Kerr
Dufty
Poasa
That is the best for the rest of the year I guess. I hope that the players smarten themselves up for the remainder of the season as some will be on the chopping block if not.
 

Illusion

Juniors
Messages
574
Which young blokes in what position?

All well and good to say blood them but who is actually available?

Most clubs blood juniors along side well performed and well established (already at the club) senior players unfortunately we don't have that luxury.
Agree mate , when the opportunity comes , they need to be given game time not just 10 min then don't see them again ...... Been so frustrating over the last few years ..... Then you read Dufty is helping out Ramsey with tips on playing fullback ..... We are getting rid of Duff because of his positional play and defense ..... Amone , Sloan hopefully start to get game time ...... I know we are building , and it will take time so lets hope they unearth some great young talent ......
 
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