DISCUSSION: Attack or defence?

[Frenzy.]

I reckon the game is on the verge of a new era.

Looks to me like the wheel has just about turned back to a time where to win games the emphasis is going to have to be on attack.

Virtually all teams now have similar defensive systems and the ability to utilise them to the maximum of the systems potential when they have their 'A' cattle on the park. Teams are really only falling apart defensively due to major personnel disruptions.

Obviously any team can beat any opponent on a given day but the most consistent winning teams are not the ones with the greatest defence. Looking at the table wholistically shows the better teams are generally the ones that can pile on the points. Pretty much a "deeerrr" statement I guess as we all know you have to score more points than the other side to win. The thing is though, there have been seemingly less blowouts this year and quite a few teams can fall into the category of having won or lost many games by small margins. Most of the blowouts, I repeat "most" have been on injury riddled, rep season disruptions or rookie dominated teams.

So if defence has caught up across the board, and with all things being equal across the team, the only way to dominate is going to be to dominate in attack. That'll bring the wheel back to 12:00 as we haven't seen any really great, fantastic, attacking footy for years. I'm not naive enough to think we'll go all the way back to the razzle dazzle of the 70's and 80's but it'll be the less innovative that get left behind IMO

The Sharks are one of the in between teams.

Discuss, flame and rip in.

 

[Frenzy.]

Bit bored in The Lodge?

 

[Qld-Sharkie]

Not trying to hijack the discussion Chaos.....To dominate in the NRL, besides attack and defence... you cant ignore winning away from home. If you have a look at the percentages for winning away, its almost identical to the ladder at the moment.

 

[Frenzy.]

Good point Qld. Plenty of roadkill in the NRL. Probably all the more reason to get outside the box actually.

One could argue that what works at home doesn't work on the road for example.

 

[millersnose]

i blame the play the ball rules and this 'surrendah' crap

its a legal way of slowing the play the ball down that has created the current defence orientated game

 

[spider]

also our defence does not leave much petrol in the tank at the back end of each half

our oposition seem to be playing more and more patient football

 

[imasharkie]

also our defence does not leave much petrol in the tank at the back end of each half

our oposition seem to be playing more and more patient football

You seem to have hit the nail on the head there spider.

The Sharks often let a try in for the opposition in the last 10 minutes of the 1st half especially in the 2nd half of this season's competition. And when we lose by 2-4 points a game therein lies the answer.

 

[Frenzy.]

What about overall dudes. Let's not get all Sharkcentric :lol:

 

[carcharias]

What about overall dudes. Let's not get all Sharkcentric :lol:

Well if your theory is right...we're fugged and the Storm are not.

 

[Frenzy.]

i blame the play the ball rules and this 'surrendah' crap

its a legal way of slowing the play the ball down that has created the current defence orientated game

True, this has been a major contribution. So is the obsession with defensive offence whereby nealry all teams play safety first in their own half with the bulk of plays run being hit ups or inside balls followed by the inevitable kick. It's like forcings back using battering rams in between kicks.

Short of rule changes, which I know I've had enough of does anyone have any interesting tactics they would use if they were coaching a side?

 

[Frenzy.]

Well if your theory is right...we're fugged and the Storm are not.

Of course, they are the prime example. Offensively we are pretty well fugged ATM but still maintain a positive percentage. We won't win this comp with the current offensive plays - that's a no brainer.

 

[cheese]

This sounds ridiculous, but I think the game in general has suffered with the continual injury of Benji Marshall.

In 05 the tigers reignited what attacking footy was all about. The media seemed to be buzzing about the state of the game, and alot of that had to do with Marshall. You could see a bit of his game being emulated in alot of other players.

In the pre-season to 06 rapes was tugging off to the media how the game had changed and how he had to utilise speed and other skills.

Our first game against brizzy last year we looked like we were playing touch, and tbh, it was awesome.(even though we ended up losing)

Then marsh fuhked his shoulder again, and league kind of lost it's zing. There was still thurston and inglis, but the depth of true off the cuff players was dented, and one out snoreball once again prevailed.

 

[Weaponhead]

I agree that there will be a philosophical change in the way teams play soon. In my view there will become an increasing emphasis on counterattack as a way to unsettle teams structured defensive patterns. At present, teams are schooled in a safety first, hit it up then kick mentality. I can see coaches beginning to use turnovers as an opportunity for a fast spread to catch teams out who are used to compressing early in the tackle count. This will enable teams to develop more of a broken field attack. The Broncs were expert at this in the early 90's where they would set for a quick spread from anywhere on the field with Walters finding Renouf on the fly. To make this work, the halves need good long passing games and the outside backs need to be wide, deep and alert. At the moment outside backs come in to take dummy half rucks or hit ups. They can be much more effective out wide running at space in a confused defensive line rather than getting smashed by front rowers. The emphasis is on speed and running lines rather than raw power. If a half break is made and the defensive line is not set then there is an opportunity to play a power game with forward running at one or two opponents rather than 4 thus nullfying the gang tackling that stifles the game at present. So, the emphasis is on the backs to create the intial momentum and space rather than the forwards. The forwards are then freed to run at a less structured line that brings in the opportunity for offloading. It will take a coach with a bit of courage to take the straightjackets off the players and teach them to be footballers rather than hit up/dummy half running machines.

See what happens.

 

[carcharias]

the hookers have morphed into super quick, ball playing , deft kicking all rounders.

 

[spider]

the hookers have morphed into super quick, ball playing , deft kicking all rounders.

the good ones have

and the clubs that dont have these 'good ones'....ahem......should be playing two passes wide of the ruck whether in their own half or not

 

[Fin077]

As we know, stats can be twisted to make any point, but here's some info from the last 25 years I put together you might be able to use (i'm not a excel nerd so if someone can post better feel free!);


Tries / Avg Score


1981 -789 / 15.19
1982 - 1143 / 15.87
1983 - 1153 / 19.31
1984 - 820 / 16.16
1985 - 850 / 16.78
1986 - 786/ 16
1987 - 809 /16.25
1988 - 1042/ 18.07
1989 - 873 /14.92
1990 - 986 /16.78
1991 - 1020/ 17.34
1992 - 961 /16.64
1993 - 1016/ 16.89
1994 - 1260 /20.49
1995 - 1627/ 21.07
1996 - 1413/ 19.24
1997 - 1558/ 20.15
1998 - 1677 /20.08
1999 - 1484/ 20.78
2000 - 1333 /21.1
2001 - 1535/ 24.42
2002 - 1537/ 24.12
2003 - 1501 /23.9
2004 - 1533 /24.16
2005 - 1492 /23.49
2006 - 1384 /21.88


To date this year the avg. score per team is 20.18, with 795 tries being scored. Seems the avg is dropping off again.

Does this mean defences are better or attack is lacking?

 

[spider]

my glass is half full...

 

[Surely]

Blame the dragons, their losy 183 is dragging the average down.

 

[Frenzy.]

As we know, stats can be twisted to make any point, but here's some info from the last 25 years I put together you might be able to use (i'm not a excel nerd so if someone can post better feel free!);


Tries / Avg Score


1981 -789 / 15.19
1982 - 1143 / 15.87
1983 - 1153 / 19.31
1984 - 820 / 16.16
1985 - 850 / 16.78
1986 - 786/ 16
1987 - 809 /16.25
1988 - 1042/ 18.07
1989 - 873 /14.92
1990 - 986 /16.78
1991 - 1020/ 17.34
1992 - 961 /16.64
1993 - 1016/ 16.89
1994 - 1260 /20.49
1995 - 1627/ 21.07
1996 - 1413/ 19.24
1997 - 1558/ 20.15
1998 - 1677 /20.08
1999 - 1484/ 20.78
2000 - 1333 /21.1
2001 - 1535/ 24.42
2002 - 1537/ 24.12
2003 - 1501 /23.9
2004 - 1533 /24.16
2005 - 1492 /23.49
2006 - 1384 /21.88


To date this year the avg. score per team is 20.18, with 795 tries being scored. Seems the avg is dropping off again.

Does this mean defences are better or attack is lacking?

Did you consider amount of teams and games for each year?

 

[Since 73]

Aaah the games changed - and not for the better.
My best memories of rugby league don't include naything from the last decade.

Where would blokes like Kurt Sorenson, Geoff Robinson and dallas Donnelly fit into today's game.
You still have to be bloody tough to play today, but the raw edge of brutality that was there pre 1990 is gone.
Blokes today who have reputations for being tough like Jason ryles run onto the field with gel in their hair. Peter Kelly would have scalped him.

We need:.....
NO unlimited interchange
The return of CONTESTED scrums
No hair products on the busines side of the white stripe (Sorry Benji)
No Video ref.

A lot of it's bloody Tina Turner's fault. Once the game went to Brisbane, Melbourne, NZ, etc the advertising suits git involved and the marketing gurus pushed a lot of Nancy boys to the forefront and the league moved to tailor the game to suit them and appeal to a larger audience.

The game at the moment is suffering due to a lck of genuine top shelf halfbacks.
Coaches have had to compensate and now hookers have become pseudo playmakers and a whole new position has been created.
Other clubs have placed more emphasis on the pivot as playmaker (Gasnier, Lyons, Lockyer, Gasnier, Inglis) and once again an old position has been revolutionised.
Other coaches have begun to introduce the fullback geting his hands on the ball in playmaking opportunities (Hunt, hodgson, Peachey, Bowen, Inglis).

Tim Sheens won a GF because he was strong in all of these ares (Prince, Marshall, Farrah, Hodgson)and the opposition was caught out beacuse it never knew who would instigate what. Everyone was watching prince so marshall could do whatever and so on.

Basically the Sharks are struggling to score points because we do not have an elite 1, 6, 7 or 9.