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Do you want Brad Arthur as coach

Do you want Brad Arthur as coach

  • Yes

    Votes: 90 54.5%
  • No

    Votes: 75 45.5%

  • Total voters
    165

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,828
Good summary. We don’t have a poor roster. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t be mixing it with the best. We’ve proved at times we can. The board aren’t stupid. They’ll be well aware of our straight sets exit. Not sure they’ll accept mediocrity like our coach has. Interesting times ahead.
Our coach said last night that the players made too many silly errors. How is that accepting mediocrity?

He has also tried to develop a game plan that plays to the players strengths and for the most part has been successful when the players stick to it.

He's far from perfect, but to suggest he is 'accepting mediocrity' and not trying his best to improve the team is just flat out stupid.
 

IFR33K

Coach
Messages
12,813
Our coach said last night that the players made too many silly errors. How is that accepting mediocrity?

He has also tried to develop a game plan that plays to the players strengths and for the most part has been successful when the players stick to it.

He's far from perfect, but to suggest he is 'accepting mediocrity' and not trying his best to improve the team is just flat out stupid.

He has his favorites, and fails to drop players after mediocre performances.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,159
Why would you want to go with a worse option? Don’t see why suggesting we should aim for a better option is ‘delusional’. Of course it’s a risk. But with sensible management that avoids knee jerk reactions you can minimise that risk.
No you cant. Nobody knows how a particular coach will go at a new club (except perhaps very good, well-established coaches like Hasler, Bennett, Bellamy, Robinson, etc). If you've ever been involved in interviews, you would know that no amount of 'sensible management' (whatever that means) or any other measure can ensure that you get the 'right' person. You can only hope that you get the right person. The alternative, of course, is to extend B.A's tenure to 10, 11, 12 years, because a 'right' or 'better' option isn't jumping out at you. The idea that we should only sack B.A. if we could get Bellamy or Robinson or Bennett, or whoever, actually is delusional.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,159
As a general rule, I think I’d be reluctant to replace BA with a rookie. Unless of course I was a member of the selection panel and they wowed me with an amazing vision for the team.

I’d be going for someone who has proven that they know what they are doing. Bennett, even Flanno wouldn’t be the worst choice.

We’ve become a solid club with great potential. We don’t need to take big risks if we decide to replace BA.
But even that wont guarantee a good result. McGuire was 'proven'; won a premiership; supposedly knew what he was doing. Hasn't gone well. Tim Sheens, when he went to the Cowboys, was a very well-credentialed coach. That didn't go well. It's all a gamble. We need a change.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,159
Is our roster that poor, that Brad has over-achieved?

Personally, I don't think so.

While we do have deficiencies (eg: lack of raw speed on the edges, consistency in our halves), out team on paper is more than serviceable:

Gutherson is probably on the tier just below elite, but he is an excellent player

Sivo had lots of deficiencies in his game, but is also a massive threat inside the opposition 20m zone

Waqa Blake is an erratic enigma, but he is good enough to cause teams plenty of headaches

Dylan Brown is dripping with potential, and raw talent

Mitchell Moses is erratic, but imo, the most skilful halfback in the NRL

Paulo and RCG are a better starting front row than many other teams'

Mahoney is elite

Matterson and Papali'i are both excellent players

Nathan Brown has his limitations (eg: not the biggest bloke), but he plays with energy, aggression, and he brings some skills to our middle

Lane, Niukore, and Kaufusi are all serviceable interchange forwards

We don't have the best team in the NRL on paper, but imo, the team - if they play to their true potential - is easily a top 4 team.

But we are seeing:

* Junior Paulo trundle up to the line, and look to offload first

* Matterson wasting his talents by trying to run through defences

* Dylan Brown not progressing his game

* Papali'i relying on brute force, and footwork, to get the job done

* Sivo not working hard enough for a modern NRL winger

* Opacic continually making silly errors

* Gutherson and Nathan Brown's form slump

* Maboney not engaging markers, despite being talented enough to do so

Now, granted - some of those issues may not be coaching issues.

But we seem poorly-prepared on a regular basis - we tend to start games well, run out of patience after 20 minutes, and start panicking.

That's not solely on Brad Arthur - his assistants are clearly not preparing the team properly.

But if on-field performances don't improve, then I'm afraid that there will be no recourse left but to go a different direction in 2023...
And who's to say that Dylan Brown and Mitchell Moses wouldn't be even better under a different coach?
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,180
Our coach said last night that the players made too many silly errors. How is that accepting mediocrity?

He has also tried to develop a game plan that plays to the players strengths and for the most part has been successful when the players stick to it.

He's far from perfect, but to suggest he is 'accepting mediocrity' and not trying his best to improve the team is just flat out stupid.
Sterlo said that there are issues with the attack and the coach snapped back with he’s entitled to his opinion instead of acknowledging the issue.
 

IFR33K

Coach
Messages
12,813
He fails to drop the players that you think he should drop.

Ok buddy. All is well and the players have all been outstanding. It honestly astounds me why the likes of yourself and poo keep making arguments for no known reasons.

so are you telling me, from last season till now, there’s been no players that should of been dropped for a week or two? I’ll take you as far back as 2018 and point out players that should of been dropped but weren’t
 

King-Gutho94

Juniors
Messages
687
It was interesting last season on the monday after we lost the final souths.

A few comments that were deliberately leaked to the press from the board aimed at BA. I reckon the board were concerned last year at the fade out then that will amplify over the next month if we dont turn it around.

Here are some quotes from the article 9 months ago which are pretty interesting right now

"The Herald is reporting Parramatta powerbrokers will now take steps to ensure Arthur puts more steel into the side before the 2021 season kicks off.

Club bosses will tell Arthur to work more closely with Parramatta’s head of football Mark O’Neill to find a way to make the players mentally tougher.

They also want the Eels to be firing at the back end of the season instead of fading out and crashing like they did this year in a fairly dismal end to a promising year"

There is some talk now with Brad Arthur that Parramatta want him to change his way a bit as a coach, that concerns me a little bit,” Weidler said.

“Someone said to me at Parramatta today that ‘running an extra three laps of the oval is not going to get us a premiership, it’s got to come between the ears’.

 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,448
You think they’re happy with the early exits of the past few seasons?
Early exits against better teams is no reason to wield the axe. That's why they've stuck with Arthur's. They even extended him.

He might not get another extension, but I don't reckon he'll get the arse unless his three year rolling win rate drops below 50%. It's currently sitting on 62.5%. We'd have to lose 19 straight for that to happen.

Most likely, unless we have some luck, is that we will win 1 from 2 in the finals and we'll start looking for a new coach to take over in 2023. Arthur will end up somewhere shitter, like the Knights.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,828
No you cant. Nobody knows how a particular coach will go at a new club (except perhaps very good, well-established coaches like Hasler, Bennett, Bellamy, Robinson, etc). If you've ever been involved in interviews, you would know that no amount of 'sensible management' (whatever that means) or any other measure can ensure that you get the 'right' person. You can only hope that you get the right person. The alternative, of course, is to extend B.A's tenure to 10, 11, 12 years, because a 'right' or 'better' option isn't jumping out at you. The idea that we should only sack B.A. if we could get Bellamy or Robinson or Bennett, or whoever, actually is delusional.
Yep. I've recruited positions before. The interview is the end product of a far bigger process. One where you've set your expectations, targeted candidates at the right level and havent cheapened yourself by desperately lifting your skirt for anyone that expresses an interest. I call this process "sensible management". Feel free to use that term, but please credit me whenever you do.

There is always a risk that you get a f**ktard but there ways to minimise the chances of that happening. You've actually agreed with that point in your second sentence so I'm not sure what you are arguing.

As for your other stuff around only sacking BA if we could get Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett, I think you are misrepresenting me.

I don't think its in our interest to sign a rookie. We are a solid club and should look for an established performer if we are going to replace BA. Why do we need to take unnecessary risks?
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,180
Early exits against better teams is no reason to wield the axe. That's why they've stuck with Arthur's. They even extended him.

He might not get another extension, but I don't reckon he'll get the arse unless his three year rolling win rate drops below 50%. It's currently sitting on 62.5%. We'd have to lose 19 straight for that to happen.

Most likely, unless we have some luck, is that we will win 1 from 2 in the finals and we'll start looking for a new coach to take over in 2023. Arthur will end up somewhere shitter, like the Knights.
Penrith sacked Anthony Griffin when they were sitting inside the top 4 in 2018. There has to be a point where the question has to be asked as to why the coach can’t get you to be one of those “better teams” you keep getting beaten by.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,159
Yep. I've recruited positions before. The interview is the end product of a far bigger process. One where you've set your expectations, targeted candidates at the right level and havent cheapened yourself by desperately lifting your skirt for anyone that expresses an interest. I call this process "sensible management". Feel free to use that term, but please credit me whenever you do.

There is always a risk that you get a f**ktard but there ways to minimise the chances of that happening. You've actually agreed with that point in your second sentence so I'm not sure what you are arguing.

As for your other stuff around only sacking BA if we could get Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett, I think you are misrepresenting me.

I don't think its in our interest to sign a rookie. We are a solid club and should look for an established performer if we are going to replace BA. Why do we need to take unnecessary risks?
Okay. Set your expectations; target candidates at the 'right level'; and don't lift your skirts. It's still a gamble. There are only a handful of coaches in the NRL who would not be so much of a gamble (even Bennett was a failure at Newcastle) - but I don't like our chances of getting any of them. You seem to be saying that the club should hang on to Brad Arthur until such time as we find 'an established performer' or use 'sensible management' (which you don't define very well) to find a 'better' option. And I think the only 'established performer' available currently is Flannagan (who would be my first choice - but you don't seem to rate). As for misrepresenting you; I think you misrepresent yourself. By carrying on like the class clown all the time, anything sensible you might say goes unnoticed.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,828
Okay. Set your expectations; target candidates at the 'right level'; and don't lift your skirts. It's still a gamble. There are only a handful of coaches in the NRL who would not be so much of a gamble (even Bennett was a failure at Newcastle) - but I don't like our chances of getting any of them. You seem to be saying that the club should hang on to Brad Arthur until such time as we find 'an established performer' or use 'sensible management' (which you don't define very well) to find a 'better' option. And I think the only 'established performer' available currently is Flannagan (who would be my first choice - but you don't seem to rate). As for misrepresenting you; I think you misrepresent yourself. By carrying on like the class clown all the time, anything sensible you might say goes unnoticed.
Its less of a gamble by doing what I have suggested. Do you not agree? We can keep playing funny buggers with the 'sensible management' term but surely I have detailed a recipe for minimising risk.

And yes, I happen to think it is smart to perhaps have a plan in mind before you sack a coach. I dont see how that is even remotely controversial. I'm personally not fond of Flanagan but have started to warm to him since he's been commentating on Fox. If thats the way we went I'd support it. Its a much better option than a rookie.

As for the other stuff about being a class clown. I'm happy to wear that criticism.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,448
McGuire was 'proven'; won a premiership; supposedly knew what he was doing. Hasn't gone well. Tim Sheens, when he went to the Cowboys, was a very well-credentialed coach. That didn't go well.
Those don't prove the coaches were poor signings, just that it is harder to win at some clubs than others. This is why Bennett ended up at Souths rather than the Tigers; because they are a strong club that was able to have immediate success. Maguire is capable of winning a comp at a strong club (he proved it) but not at Wests. That proves the problem is the Wests Tigers. Paul Green wasn't a better coach than any that came before him at the Cowboys. He just happened to arrive there after they were a strong club.

None of this is to say that we wouldn't go better under a different coach. Flanagan and Maguire (for example) have both proven their quality, and are realistic options (unlike Bennett or Robinson), but then Ricky Stuart has also proven his premiership coaching credentials, and he won 5 games from 24 at our club.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,828
Ok buddy. All is well and the players have all been outstanding. It honestly astounds me why the likes of yourself and poo keep making arguments for no known reasons.

so are you telling me, from last season till now, there’s been no players that should of been dropped for a week or two? I’ll take you as far back as 2018 and point out players that should of been dropped but weren’t
Happy for you to do that, but please also detail who they should have been replaced with.

P.S. We put forward counter views because we probably dont agree with you. Where is the problem in that? I've had plenty of people say that I am full of shit over the years.
 

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