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Do you want Brad Arthur as coach

Do you want Brad Arthur as coach

  • Yes

    Votes: 85 52.1%
  • No

    Votes: 78 47.9%

  • Total voters
    163

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
124,115
We need to start a campaign. Bring the skeleton to the Eels!
Mean He-Man GIF
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
124,115
Our coach said last night that the players made too many silly errors. How is that accepting mediocrity?

He has also tried to develop a game plan that plays to the players strengths and for the most part has been successful when the players stick to it.

He's far from perfect, but to suggest he is 'accepting mediocrity' and not trying his best to improve the team is just flat out stupid.
By picking his son I’d say he’s pretty happy accepting mediocrity.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,136
Its less of a gamble by doing what I have suggested. Do you not agree? We can keep playing funny buggers with the 'sensible management' term but surely I have detailed a recipe for minimising risk.

And yes, I happen to think it is smart to perhaps have a plan in mind before you sack a coach. I dont see how that is even remotely controversial. I'm personally not fond of Flanagan but have started to warm to him since he's been commentating on Fox. If thats the way we went I'd support it. Its a much better option than a rookie.

As for the other stuff about being a class clown. I'm happy to wear that criticism.
I know what you are trying to say in regards to good management and processes around coach selection - but in my experience with being on numerous interview panels and also being involved in the so-called process before that point - it's all pretty much an illusion. You can't really minimise the gamble too much - you just trick yourself into thinking you can. And, yes, Flannagan sounds like he knows his stuff. I wonder what Arthur would sound like as a commentator on Fox?
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,136
Those don't prove the coaches were poor signings, just that it is harder to win at some clubs than others. This is why Bennett ended up at Souths rather than the Tigers; because they are a strong club that was able to have immediate success. Maguire is capable of winning a comp at a strong club (he proved it) but not at Wests. That proves the problem is the Wests Tigers. Paul Green wasn't a better coach than any that came before him at the Cowboys. He just happened to arrive there after they were a strong club.

None of this is to say that we wouldn't go better under a different coach. Flanagan and Maguire (for example) have both proven their quality, and are realistic options (unlike Bennett or Robinson), but then Ricky Stuart has also proven his premiership coaching credentials, and he won 5 games from 24 at our club.
We were in much worse shape when Stuart took over.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,147
I don't know - if the coach can't get the team playing to the coach's vision that seems like a coaching issue to me.
You can say that but then you look at coaches with runs on the board (e.g. Stuart, Hagan, Bennett, Maguire, Green) going to weak clubs and failing to recreate their success (Green took over a powerful Cowboys team, won a comp, appeared in another decider, and then oversaw their decline), the only possible assessment is that not all clubs are equal, and not all rosters are premiership material or can even be improved with that club's resources. Tim Sheens won a fairytale premiership with the Tigers but then watched as they gradually lost their recruitment/retention power. Since he left in 2012 no coach has been able to get them into the finals, including coaches who had done so with other clubs. Maguire got Souths into the finals for three straight years, culminating in their first premiership in decades. Now in his third year at Wests he will probably fail to finish in the top eight yet again. Changing coaches at these clubs is like shuffling the deck chairs on a very famous boat that sank.

Unless the club itself becomes stronger overall (investment and post-career opportunities for players, better facilities, more staff, etc) then making the finals at Wests will remain the equivalent of winning the comp at Manly, Souths, Cowboys or Cronulla, because it has happened the same amount of times in the last ten years. And if that's true of the Tigers, then it is true of other clubs to varying degrees. I don't think we're as weak, structurally, as the Tigers. We are better able to recruit/retain players than they are (i.e. for less under the cap), but we are absolutely not in the same league as the Roosters or Storm, and I have strong suspicions that we aren't even in the same league as Penrith and Souths.

Would replacing Arthur put us in that group? I don't think so. I think a bunch of other stuff has to change for that to happen, however I think it's happening gradually behind the scenes. If we get a better coach than Arthur it won't make us a stronger club (though it will improve performance on the field), but rather, it will be a sign that we have reached a new level as a club.

How good is Arthur? In my opinion he is as good as a few coaches who have won premierships at stronger clubs (e.g. Green, Flanagan, Maguire and Stuart) as well as a couple who haven't yet won premierships (Cleary, Griffin). But there is a handful of coaches that are obviously better (Bellamy, Bennett, Robinson, Hasler) that I don't think would come to our club just yet. But coaches do have a use by date, and Arthur will eventually reach his at our club. I'm just not convinced it's now.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,425
I know what you are trying to say in regards to good management and processes around coach selection - but in my experience with being on numerous interview panels and also being involved in the so-called process before that point - it's all pretty much an illusion. You can't really minimise the gamble too much - you just trick yourself into thinking you can. And, yes, Flannagan sounds like he knows his stuff. I wonder what Arthur would sound like as a commentator on Fox?
Man, you sound jaded or perhaps you’ve worked in shit organisations.

In my experience, being well prepared and doing your homework makes a massive difference. Maybe myself and members of my teams over the years have just been lucky following all of these so called processes…or maybe it does pay to be prepared.

We can agree to disagree on this. I understand where you are coming from but haven’t had the same experiences.

As for how BA would sound as a commentator. I suspect pretty boring and monotone. Unless he was commentating a Parra game that Flanno was coaching and they were getting roasted. He’d loosen up quite a bit if that happened!
 

Hindmarshisgod2

Juniors
Messages
470
I know what you are trying to say in regards to good management and processes around coach selection - but in my experience with being on numerous interview panels and also being involved in the so-called process before that point - it's all pretty much an illusion. You can't really minimise the gamble too much - you just trick yourself into thinking you can. And, yes, Flannagan sounds like he knows his stuff. I wonder what Arthur would sound like as a commentator on Fox?
I reckon bushy would sound like Brett Kenny when he was commentating.
 

King-Gutho94

Juniors
Messages
574
I reckon we could have got Dessie but.

I dont think Dessie would have fitted in with us. He is suited to manly as manly have a history of only being successful with coaches that have the Manly DNA.

Speak to doggies fans about him they still blame him and raelene for the mess they are in now.

The dogs attack under Des in those last few years was just as bad as what we are dishing up.

Its proven he needs an elite fullback in Brett Stewart, barba in 2012 form and tom turbo to be successful.
 

Avenger

Referee
Messages
27,064
@Avenger when we spoke about Flanno a little while ago I think you said that a few of your contacts raised concerns about whether he was the right cultural fit. A bit of a hard arse if I recall correctly?

Do those concerns still exist or do you think he might have mellowed during his time out of the game?
The place is split on him which has changed because the last time we discussed him on here it was a definite no. I can say that he definitely wants the gig.


paid the price for what he did and deserves another chance. The only reason Bellamy didn’t get similar punishment was because they had no proof and he was the coach of the team over the biggest cheating scandal in the history of the game.

Arthur was also the coach when we cheated the cap. Do we crucify him?

I’m still undecided on him because I think he can coach but I’ve also heard some nasty stories which is all they are. No proof on anything jus rumor and innuendo.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,425
The place is split on him which has changed because the last time we discussed him on here it was a definite no. I can say that he definitely wants the gig.


paid the price for what he did and deserves another chance. The only reason Bellamy didn’t get similar punishment was because they had no proof and he was the coach of the team over the biggest cheating scandal in the history of the game.

Arthur was also the coach when we cheated the cap. Do we crucify him?

I’m still undecided on him because I think he can coach but I’ve also heard some nasty stories which is all they are. No proof on anything jus rumor and innuendo.
Fair enough. Hopefully we go through some so-called processes to find out what the real story is.

Or we could just hire him now. It probably wouldn’t make a difference…
 
Messages
35,878
I dont think Dessie would have fitted in with us. He is suited to manly as manly have a history of only being successful with coaches that have the Manly DNA.

Speak to doggies fans about him they still blame him and raelene for the mess they are in now.

The dogs attack under Des in those last few years was just as bad as what we are dishing up.

Its proven he needs an elite fullback in Brett Stewart, barba in 2012 form and tom turbo to be successful.
I think he was rather more successful than that at the dogs, and I don't know how much blame he deserves. The same thing was said about him leaving Manly in bad shape but he goes back and bingo bango, they're not shit anymore. I think he's better than BA and wouldn't hesitate to swap him.
 
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